Speculating on (Historical) Civ Progression

[Navelgazer]

So I almost made a separate thread for this, but that seems unnecessary and we're swamped with new threads right now, so:

What are we speculating are some of the non-linear ways that Exploration and Modern-Age civs might be unlocked? We know about Mongolia (securing a certain number of horse resources) and we've gotten hints about Inca (something to do with mountains, though I don't think we know much more than that.)

I can picture Ottomans being an Exploration Age civ, unlocked via capturing at least one other player's capitol city during Antiquity. (This would make sense particularly if Byzantium isn't in the base game, which I don't believe they ever have been before anyway, whereas the Ottoman empire has been.)

 

[The Fanatical]

What would even be the bonuses for modern Greece?

Economical maritime trade bonuses. Greece has the largest merchant navy in the world.

Cultural and economical bonuses that focus on natural unworked tiles, Antiquity Sites and World Wonders from ages before the Modern Age. Greece has strong tourism.

Scientific and Great People bonuses. Greece still produces brilliant scientific minds.

If they decide to add modern Greece even Military defensive bonuses against aggressive civilizations could work, Greece has always fought valiantly against superpowers in the modern age from its struggle to regain independence from the Ottoman Empire to World War II.

Klephts, Armatoloi or Evzones would be the unique unit with combat bonuses on mountain terrain and inside the borders. Academy of Athens, Mone(monastery) would be unique Infrastructures. Meteora, Simonopetra, the White Tower of Thessaloniki or the Acropolis of Athens/Parthenon could be the World Wonder. Meteora can work as a Natural Wonder as well.

 

[GreSte]

With the deemphasis on heads of state in Civ7, Grace O'Malley seems like an ideal Irish pick.

Not my top choice but I really hope they would use her real name Gráinne over Grace, it sounds so wrong to me and it's a normal Irish woman's name even in English so not like it needs that anglicisation. Also if she speaks English I'm out lmao.
I worry the decoupling of leaders from civs (already we're getting more civs than leaders per DLC) is that more obscure figures with hard to source languages get passed over for easy-to-voice pop culture figures. I wouldn't want to end up with a ton of English, French or Chinese leaders and then nobody else.

 

[Navelgazer]

If we ever were to get Gráinne O’Malley, I imagine she’d be speaking Gaelic for sure.

 

[Zaarin]

Not my top choice but I really hope they would use her real name Gráinne over Grace

Of course. I was being lazy and didn't feel like reaching for the character map.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What worries me is that most major players in the antiquity (Rome, Greece, Egypt) or exploration (Portugal, Spain, Dutch), do not have very dominant incarnation in the modern age. What would even be the bonuses for modern Greece? Greece -> Ottoman -> turkyie would get the game banned.

And that's not even touching the colonial can of worms in N & S America.

I am open to the idea, but I foresee a lot of controversy...

As others have said the most "logical" path progression for Portugal, Spain, and Dutch might be their postcolonial nations (Brazil, Argentina/Mexico, Indonesia/South Africa?). Not sure about the Dutch.
I think it's something people will just have to unfortunately get used too.

No shade to Italy, has Italy really been a global power since the steam engine? Maybe a SRE-> Germany path?

It just seems so charged and explosive. And then you have to balance everything on top of it!

Many people have been asking for an Italy civ, including me, for years. The big question has always been how to get it in when Rome also exists, so I think this might be one way to solve that issue.
That being said I would have much rather preferred a Renaissance themed Italian civ, rather than a modern one though it could still work.

 

[Siptah]

As others have said the most "logical" path progression for Portugal, Spain, and Dutch might be their postcolonial nations (Brazil, Argentina/Mexico, Indonesia/South Africa?). Not sure about the Dutch.
I think it's something people will just have to unfortunately get used too.

Many people have been asking for an Italy civ, including me, for years. The big question has always been how to get it in when Rome also exists, so I think this might be one way to solve that issue.
That being said I would have much rather preferred a Renaissance themed Italian civ, rather than a modern one though it could still work.

I think for the Age of Exploration and Italy, a blob civ would be a shame. I'd like to have Venice or Genoa, Papal States, and Tuscany eventually. Save united Italy for the Modern age, or leave it out altogether.

 

[ButtBillionaire]

Rome -> Florence/Genoa/Venice -> Italy seems like a logical path they might go for to me.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think for the Age of Exploration and Italy, a blob civ would be a shame. I'd like to have Venice or Genoa, Papal States, and Tuscany eventually. Save united Italy for the Modern age, or leave it out altogether.

Sorry, I'm not talking about for Civ 7. I'm talking about how I would have designed one in the way of Civ 6.

 

[Xandinho]

As others have said the most "logical" path progression for Portugal, Spain, and Dutch might be their postcolonial nations (Brazil, Argentina/Mexico, Indonesia/South Africa?). Not sure about the Dutch.

For years, some people have complained about modern nations showing up in ancient eras. It seems the developers have finally found a way to address this issue.

 

[Civinator]

For years, some people have complained about modern nations showing up in ancient eras. It seems the developers have finally found a way to address this issue.

Unfortunately this "solution" seems to open several new "issues".

 

[lt22677]

Unfortunately this "solution" seems to open several new "issues".

well now we will have people who will complain that ancient Egypt becomes the Mongol Empire if it has three horses and then I advise Firaxis to make sure that if in the age of Exploration the Egyptian scout finds a pizzeria then Egypt becomes Italy

 

[durfal]

As others have said the most "logical" path progression for Portugal, Spain, and Dutch might be their postcolonial nations (Brazil, Argentina/Mexico, Indonesia/South Africa?). Not sure about the Dutch.
I think it's something people will just have to unfortunately get used too.

For the Netherlands I would probably say South Africa then. The Boers were Dutch Settlers and the Afrikaans language is a daughter language of Dutch.
Though would be weird as the Netherlands today still ranks as the 17th economy in the world and South Africa only 40th.
But as an alternative the US would be OK I guess (New Netherlands colony and we founded New York as New Amsterdam), or Australia as we discovered it at least as the first Europeans and it was know as New Holland for a while.
Same goes for New Zealand (which kept it's name under the English even though named after a Dutch province), but I doubt they gonna make it into the game.

 

[thecrazyscot]

The resource-as-prerequisite does lend itself to some solid culinary progressions.

Inca gathered 3 potatoes? Boom. Ireland.

 

[lt22677]

The resource-as-prerequisite does lend itself to some solid culinary progressions.

Inca gathered 3 potatoes? Boom. Ireland.

And why not? at this point you have an agricultural civilization in Africa that just because it has 3 horses becomes an Asian nomadic Empire and in the end at this point it's fine even if the Incas with a sack of potatoes turn into the Irish or the Germans (obviously I'm making a paradox don't take me seriously let's have a laugh)


PS: add that the leader of the Irish or Germans will be Atahualpa with Cuzco as capital and the circle is complete

 

[Xandinho]

Unfortunately this "solution" seems to open several new "issues".

Yeah, the model we were used to was much better.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

Abbasids make more sense as progression for Persia than for Egypt, they should've gone for that and given Egypt the Fatimids

 

[thecrazyscot]

Abbasids make more sense as progression for Persia than for Egypt, they should've gone for that and given Egypt the Fatimids

Yes, but they also make more sense for Egypt than Songhai and we know they are an Egypt unlock, so...

 

[Zaarin]

Abbasids make more sense as progression for Persia than for Egypt, they should've gone for that and given Egypt the Fatimids

I have no doubt Abbasids will be a historic route for Babylon and (if present) Assyria as well as for Egypt. They may also be an option for Persia, especially if we do not have an Exploration Age Persian civ. (However, I hope that sooner rather than later we have Persia covered for all three ages.)