Your choice
. I often like to do that for longer games on Huge maps, but it can be embarassing if a game takes a turn for the worse and you decide not to go with it after all.
Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Your choice
. I often like to do that for longer games on Huge maps, but it can be embarassing if a game takes a turn for the worse and you decide not to go with it after all.I've played several Deity Huge Histographic games which I've now abandonded. In one I made the mistake of re-declaring war on a former opponent before the 20 turn period expired and soiled my reputation. Since I try and bank a lot of lump sums for gpt, I didn't finish that one.
In another one after trashing Germany for a while I decided to make peace with them. BIG MISTAKE. I lost a few cities on flips during peace time. I had a rather good tech position in that I had bought a few techs for gpt and then had that tribe declare war on me that turn, and by the time I learned Military Tradition, with trading, I only need Magnetism to enter the industrial age. So, I researched Magnetism, gifted my 6 scientific opponents up and no one got me Steam Power. I then decided to research fast to Scientific Method and use Theory of Evolution for Replacable Parts and Sanitation (which the AIs actually researched for me, so I took Atomic Theory as my other freebie).
But, I don't like that so much. I think it better to just slow down and buy armies like crazy. Gifting my opponents up basically gave them rifles, when I could have taken a lot of territory faster. I hand-built Sun Tzu's and Leo's in that one. It now feels harder and harder to say... do I want scientific opponents so I can get the first 3 middle ages techs (which I DO like), or should I forego scientific opponents to delay their progress to Nationalism?
In another one after trashing Germany for a while I decided to make peace with them. BIG MISTAKE. I lost a few cities on flips during peace time. I had a rather good tech position in that I had bought a few techs for gpt and then had that tribe declare war on me that turn, and by the time I learned Military Tradition, with trading, I only need Magnetism to enter the industrial age. So, I researched Magnetism, gifted my 6 scientific opponents up and no one got me Steam Power. I then decided to research fast to Scientific Method and use Theory of Evolution for Replacable Parts and Sanitation (which the AIs actually researched for me, so I took Atomic Theory as my other freebie).
But, I don't like that so much. I think it better to just slow down and buy armies like crazy. Gifting my opponents up basically gave them rifles, when I could have taken a lot of territory faster. I hand-built Sun Tzu's and Leo's in that one. It now feels harder and harder to say... do I want scientific opponents so I can get the first 3 middle ages techs (which I DO like), or should I forego scientific opponents to delay their progress to Nationalism?
I played a 20k Deity standard sized map game as the Dutch. I finished in the 1700s sometime. Since I already have the number 1 and 2 spots on that table and they both finished faster, I didn't submit. I did manage to get the Heroic Epic in the early industrial ages in that one, as I had cavs vs. pikes against my neighbor Arabia who had plopped down on my island. I got the leader with a landing shortly after I had cleared them out. Later I took out their core with cav armies, cavs, tanks, and tank armies. Unfortunately, during the second war since Arabia supplied me with most of the luxuries I got, and I hadn't built temples and cathedrals, I had some happiness problems (not in my capital, but elsewhere). Well, that naturally leads into the next game.
I managed a much better 20k standard Deity game with Spain.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828073.jpg I started out with a curragh, and then a settler, another worker, and then culture. I started off with a min run on Writing, but withing the first 10 turns I noticed a gold mine nearby and I decided to try for The Republic slingshot and cranked up research. I got it. I revolted straight away. Since I had finished the Oracle a few turns before (and The Colossus earlier), this meant I had part of my GA during anarchy, but with a few hills around I thought it worth it. I still managed The Pyramids.
I had the Aztecs as my first contact and neighbor who plopped down on my island. Early on I tried to play a city next to a tundra spot. I had gambled on building the Great Lighthouse instead before (it ended up instead of) the Museum of Mausollos hoping I could trade for ivory. So, that tundra city cash-rushed a harbor, and I then started on the Statue of Zeus. A turn or two later Monty razed the tundra city. I thought he might try to make a run for my capital, so I rushed out some archers and spears in other towns (which isn't good, since I build infrastructure so late in this sort of game anyways), but he didn't. My guess as to why he attacked? Oil lay nearby. Oil did indeed lay near that spot. Even though I lost my harbor city for a bit, I built the Statue of Zeus without any ivory currently available, so it looks like you just need ivory to start the Statue of Zeus.
I kind of traded a little more than usual with the AIs for their techs early on, so the early middle ages seemed hairy, as I might lose some wonders in cascades there or in the high middle ages, I suspect. I managed an SGL on Theology. It seemed like weird timing and I didn't know what to do with it right away. Rush Sun Tzu's and then go for the Sistine Chapel? I finally decided that since the AIs already had Feudalism and Monotheism, I thought I would trade for Chivalry, swap to Knights Templar and then SGL rush the Sistine Chapel. It worked.
After learning Education I thought about researching Astronomy as I usually do at this level, but since the Aztecs had Engineering or Invention at the time and I didn't, I decided to try and let them research it for me, while I snuck in a pre-build via J. S. Bach's Cathedral. I think they researched both Invention and Gunpowder first though, so I ended up way overbuilding Cope's. I think I could have had Bach's 4 or 5 turns later, and I had 30 spt at the time, so something like an 80-110 shield waste. Maybe not much actually. So, I went Monotheism-Theology-Education-Music Theory-Banking-Printing Press-Democracy-Free Artistry-Chemistry (Aztecs beat me to it)-Physics-Theory of Gravity-Magnetism and traded for the rest.
I did have coal and iron native, so that was a plus. In my Dutch game I had iron, but no coal... so that meant the industrial wonders came in slower than here.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828074.jpg
Now it may sound like I had plenty of military to start a war with both of the free unit wonders. But, I really didn't feel comfortable chancing things against the Azetcs in this one, and I doubted anyone else would land much for me to leader fish with. I had traded for all the luxuries, but knew I would lose several in an Aztec war, so I made sure to put in temples, cathedrals, and markets before going to war. In the industrial ages, I knew the Aztecs could research me Replacable Parts, so I let them. Maybe I should have researched it myself. But, after that, with a stray Aztec rifle on my territory, I got Monty to declare on me.
Artillery proper and veteran cavalry can take down infrantries with relatively few losses actually, and that's what I did. So, I cleared Monty off the island... and no leader. I had Combustion soon enough after that, that I tried landing a stack of rifles, cavalry, and artillery proper to leader fish. I might have kept up at it longer, but when I either had to raise the luxury slider or have my capital revolt (not that it was building culture anymore, but still), I decided to give up and just forget about the Epic of Heroes. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Temple-2750 BC
Colossus-1990 BC
Oracle-1525 BC
Pyramids-1175 (lucky me... I got them both without an SGL!)
Lighthouse-950 BC
Hanging Gardens-690 BC
Statue of Zeus-530 BC
Library-470 BC
Colosseum-390 BC
Great Library-90 BC
Cathedral-50 BC
Knights Templar-170 AD
Sistine Cahpel-190 AD
University-280 AD
Cope's Observatory-490 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-640 AD
Newton's University-750 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-900 AD (really nice to be able to build both Shake's and Newton's before this)
Universal Suffrage-1000 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1080 AD
Wall Street-1150 AD
Theory of Evolution-1210 AD
Hoover's Dam-1270 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
Reserach Lab-1460 AD
United Nations-1510 AD
Finish-1535 AD
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828075.jpg
I managed a much better 20k standard Deity game with Spain.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828073.jpg I started out with a curragh, and then a settler, another worker, and then culture. I started off with a min run on Writing, but withing the first 10 turns I noticed a gold mine nearby and I decided to try for The Republic slingshot and cranked up research. I got it. I revolted straight away. Since I had finished the Oracle a few turns before (and The Colossus earlier), this meant I had part of my GA during anarchy, but with a few hills around I thought it worth it. I still managed The Pyramids.
I had the Aztecs as my first contact and neighbor who plopped down on my island. Early on I tried to play a city next to a tundra spot. I had gambled on building the Great Lighthouse instead before (it ended up instead of) the Museum of Mausollos hoping I could trade for ivory. So, that tundra city cash-rushed a harbor, and I then started on the Statue of Zeus. A turn or two later Monty razed the tundra city. I thought he might try to make a run for my capital, so I rushed out some archers and spears in other towns (which isn't good, since I build infrastructure so late in this sort of game anyways), but he didn't. My guess as to why he attacked? Oil lay nearby. Oil did indeed lay near that spot. Even though I lost my harbor city for a bit, I built the Statue of Zeus without any ivory currently available, so it looks like you just need ivory to start the Statue of Zeus.
I kind of traded a little more than usual with the AIs for their techs early on, so the early middle ages seemed hairy, as I might lose some wonders in cascades there or in the high middle ages, I suspect. I managed an SGL on Theology. It seemed like weird timing and I didn't know what to do with it right away. Rush Sun Tzu's and then go for the Sistine Chapel? I finally decided that since the AIs already had Feudalism and Monotheism, I thought I would trade for Chivalry, swap to Knights Templar and then SGL rush the Sistine Chapel. It worked.
After learning Education I thought about researching Astronomy as I usually do at this level, but since the Aztecs had Engineering or Invention at the time and I didn't, I decided to try and let them research it for me, while I snuck in a pre-build via J. S. Bach's Cathedral. I think they researched both Invention and Gunpowder first though, so I ended up way overbuilding Cope's. I think I could have had Bach's 4 or 5 turns later, and I had 30 spt at the time, so something like an 80-110 shield waste. Maybe not much actually. So, I went Monotheism-Theology-Education-Music Theory-Banking-Printing Press-Democracy-Free Artistry-Chemistry (Aztecs beat me to it)-Physics-Theory of Gravity-Magnetism and traded for the rest.
I did have coal and iron native, so that was a plus. In my Dutch game I had iron, but no coal... so that meant the industrial wonders came in slower than here.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828074.jpg
Now it may sound like I had plenty of military to start a war with both of the free unit wonders. But, I really didn't feel comfortable chancing things against the Azetcs in this one, and I doubted anyone else would land much for me to leader fish with. I had traded for all the luxuries, but knew I would lose several in an Aztec war, so I made sure to put in temples, cathedrals, and markets before going to war. In the industrial ages, I knew the Aztecs could research me Replacable Parts, so I let them. Maybe I should have researched it myself. But, after that, with a stray Aztec rifle on my territory, I got Monty to declare on me.
Artillery proper and veteran cavalry can take down infrantries with relatively few losses actually, and that's what I did. So, I cleared Monty off the island... and no leader. I had Combustion soon enough after that, that I tried landing a stack of rifles, cavalry, and artillery proper to leader fish. I might have kept up at it longer, but when I either had to raise the luxury slider or have my capital revolt (not that it was building culture anymore, but still), I decided to give up and just forget about the Epic of Heroes. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Temple-2750 BC
Colossus-1990 BC
Oracle-1525 BC
Pyramids-1175 (lucky me... I got them both without an SGL!)
Lighthouse-950 BC
Hanging Gardens-690 BC
Statue of Zeus-530 BC
Library-470 BC
Colosseum-390 BC
Great Library-90 BC
Cathedral-50 BC
Knights Templar-170 AD
Sistine Cahpel-190 AD
University-280 AD
Cope's Observatory-490 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-640 AD
Newton's University-750 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-900 AD (really nice to be able to build both Shake's and Newton's before this)
Universal Suffrage-1000 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1080 AD
Wall Street-1150 AD
Theory of Evolution-1210 AD
Hoover's Dam-1270 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
Reserach Lab-1460 AD
United Nations-1510 AD
Finish-1535 AD
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1239828075.jpg
Hmmmm... compare:
The rundown of The Legend of Alcobaca (Portugal):
Palace-3950 BC
Temple-2800 BC
Colossus-2030 BC
Oracle-1625 BC
Lighthouse-1275 BC
Library-1125 BC
Museum of Mausollos-900 BC
Statue of Zeus-710 BC
Temple of Artemis-690 BC (SGL 1)
Hanging Gardens-450 BC
Colosseum-430 BC
Great Library-110 BC
Cathedral-70 BC (not enough cash for a single turn)
Sistine Chapel-310 AD
University-370 AD (yeah, not enough cash, nor enough ACs to disband)
Copernicus's Observatory-530 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-540 AD (SGL 2)
Shakespeare's Theater-720 AD
Newton's University-860 AD
Universal Suffrage-1070 AD
Theory of Evolution-1180 AD
Hoover's Dam-1190 AD (SGL 3)
Wall Street-1265 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1300 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
United Nations-1410 AD (SGL 4)
Manhattan Project-1415 AD (SGL 5)
Heroic Epic-1445 AD
Military Academy-1465 (MGL rush)
Research Lab-1470 AD (probably should have had in 1450 AD, but oh well)
Finish-1525 AD.
with the rundown of the Spainsh game:
Palace-4000 BC
Temple-2750 BC
Colossus-1990 BC
Oracle-1525 BC
Pyramids-1175 (lucky me... I got them both without an SGL!)
Lighthouse-950 BC
Hanging Gardens-690 BC
Statue of Zeus-530 BC
Library-470 BC
Colosseum-390 BC
Great Library-90 BC
Cathedral-50 BC
Knights Templar-170 AD
Sistine Cahpel-190 AD
University-280 AD
Cope's Observatory-490 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-640 AD
Newton's University-750 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-900 AD (really nice to be able to build both Shake's and Newton's before this)
Universal Suffrage-1000 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1080 AD
Wall Street-1150 AD
Theory of Evolution-1210 AD
Hoover's Dam-1270 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
Reserach Lab-1460 AD
United Nations-1510 AD
Finish-1535 AD
I also think it interesting to note the starts. The Portugal game definitely has a good start with its multiple cows. But, it's by no means tremendous. Forgetting about the free settler, ivory, three cows, and a river sounds really good. Mountains come out as decent, but I prefer hills for a little extra food. Plains have the advantage of easily providing two shields pre-engineering if you mine them, so I'd take them over regular grasslands. But, I'd really rather have forests on grassland. And there's only one bonus grassland, which gives you something, but not much more.
The Spain start should almost get circled as an "ideal" 20k type of start. Ignoring perfectionist ideas like having coal and iron in the capital's radius for the Iron Works, you only need ivory in a forest grassland, and another cow, preferably along the river in that one and then one can hardly think of much better. Ivory for the Statue of Zeus early, some happiness, and the fourth cow for 10 food per turn while still in despotism. 3 bonus grasslands, 2 of which lie along the river, 5 forests (one eventually got chopped in the middle ages and revealed another bonus grassland) with 3 of those along the river, and 3 hills.
The rundown of The Legend of Alcobaca (Portugal):
Palace-3950 BC
Temple-2800 BC
Colossus-2030 BC
Oracle-1625 BC
Lighthouse-1275 BC
Library-1125 BC
Museum of Mausollos-900 BC
Statue of Zeus-710 BC
Temple of Artemis-690 BC (SGL 1)
Hanging Gardens-450 BC
Colosseum-430 BC
Great Library-110 BC
Cathedral-70 BC (not enough cash for a single turn)
Sistine Chapel-310 AD
University-370 AD (yeah, not enough cash, nor enough ACs to disband)
Copernicus's Observatory-530 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-540 AD (SGL 2)
Shakespeare's Theater-720 AD
Newton's University-860 AD
Universal Suffrage-1070 AD
Theory of Evolution-1180 AD
Hoover's Dam-1190 AD (SGL 3)
Wall Street-1265 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1300 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
United Nations-1410 AD (SGL 4)
Manhattan Project-1415 AD (SGL 5)
Heroic Epic-1445 AD
Military Academy-1465 (MGL rush)
Research Lab-1470 AD (probably should have had in 1450 AD, but oh well)
Finish-1525 AD.
with the rundown of the Spainsh game:
Palace-4000 BC
Temple-2750 BC
Colossus-1990 BC
Oracle-1525 BC
Pyramids-1175 (lucky me... I got them both without an SGL!)
Lighthouse-950 BC
Hanging Gardens-690 BC
Statue of Zeus-530 BC
Library-470 BC
Colosseum-390 BC
Great Library-90 BC
Cathedral-50 BC
Knights Templar-170 AD
Sistine Cahpel-190 AD
University-280 AD
Cope's Observatory-490 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-640 AD
Newton's University-750 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-900 AD (really nice to be able to build both Shake's and Newton's before this)
Universal Suffrage-1000 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1080 AD
Wall Street-1150 AD
Theory of Evolution-1210 AD
Hoover's Dam-1270 AD
Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
Reserach Lab-1460 AD
United Nations-1510 AD
Finish-1535 AD
I also think it interesting to note the starts. The Portugal game definitely has a good start with its multiple cows. But, it's by no means tremendous. Forgetting about the free settler, ivory, three cows, and a river sounds really good. Mountains come out as decent, but I prefer hills for a little extra food. Plains have the advantage of easily providing two shields pre-engineering if you mine them, so I'd take them over regular grasslands. But, I'd really rather have forests on grassland. And there's only one bonus grassland, which gives you something, but not much more.
The Spain start should almost get circled as an "ideal" 20k type of start. Ignoring perfectionist ideas like having coal and iron in the capital's radius for the Iron Works, you only need ivory in a forest grassland, and another cow, preferably along the river in that one and then one can hardly think of much better. Ivory for the Statue of Zeus early, some happiness, and the fourth cow for 10 food per turn while still in despotism. 3 bonus grasslands, 2 of which lie along the river, 5 forests (one eventually got chopped in the middle ages and revealed another bonus grassland) with 3 of those along the river, and 3 hills.
I finished my Standard 60% wet, warm, pangea game which I had on the back burner against 7 random opponents as the Maya with India, the Byzantines, Carthage, the Celts, Portugal, France, and Rome as the luck of the draw. Wow... 6 out of 7 started with Alphabet. the Celts still managed more wonders than anyone else and finished second in score. I built the Great Library, the Statue of Zeus, was going to go for Leo's, but instead decided on Knights Templar. I used the banking strategy to good effect. I think I only got my gpt back once or twice, but I could easily cash-rush armies and upgrade units via disconnect-reconnect. I intended to play for a histographic game, but put it on the back burner feeling sort of "blah" about it for a while. After seeing how my conquest Regent spot with Japan dropped two places last month, I decided to make it a conquest game. I think I had 20 armies (2 trained on the last two turns) by 1000 AD when I finished.
The final wars came against Carthage and India which easily took less than 10 turns total (like 6 or 7). I think the AIs got me to Gunpowder, and then I researched to Military Tradition in my GA without libraries. I basically only used scientists and a little of the research slider after I learned Military Tradition. I think I only needed Magnetism to enter the industrial age after that. Unfortunately Theodora drew Nationalism as her free tech, so the AIs got rifles earlier than I would have like, but with my cavalry armies it didn't really matter. I managed to MGL rush both the Military Academy and then The Pentagon after I had gotten my first leader... so only one knight army. I actually worried about the final showdown with India, since I couldn't pillage Gandhi out to longbows and rifles, but it actually ended up really easy, and I think only took me three turns to kill him... utterly.
The final wars came against Carthage and India which easily took less than 10 turns total (like 6 or 7). I think the AIs got me to Gunpowder, and then I researched to Military Tradition in my GA without libraries. I basically only used scientists and a little of the research slider after I learned Military Tradition. I think I only needed Magnetism to enter the industrial age after that. Unfortunately Theodora drew Nationalism as her free tech, so the AIs got rifles earlier than I would have like, but with my cavalry armies it didn't really matter. I managed to MGL rush both the Military Academy and then The Pentagon after I had gotten my first leader... so only one knight army. I actually worried about the final showdown with India, since I couldn't pillage Gandhi out to longbows and rifles, but it actually ended up really easy, and I think only took me three turns to kill him... utterly.
I managed to tie Killercane's overall Deity table finish date on a small map with Carthage. If I had managed the Heroic Epic earlier, I might just have beat it by a turn. I had Zulu, Japan, and the Mongols as my opponents. I went curragh-settler-Pyramids pre-build on The Colossus and pulled off the Republic slingshot. I had three cows, a mountain, 7 BGs, and founded my city on the 7th one.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1240452496.jpg
The AIs really came out much weaker than other Deity games I've played. How much weaker? Usually, they'll get me to Gunpowder. In this one, I think they got me Feudalism and I actually ended up researching Engineering myself. I considered climbing up to Free Artistry before going to Astronomy, but my SGL made things such that I decided I'd better go to Astronomy first.
I met the Zulu first and noticed they had The Wheel and a slew of ancient tech early on. I could have explored north, but decided to go around their island thinking that Japan or Mongolia must share the island with them, since they had so much tech early. Sure enough I met Japan on that island. I think they only had 4 cities each on that island. Mongolia had more territory but did little research-wise. I noticed no one had ivory early on as a luxury. I thought it might lie on some unclaimed island. Then I noticed the largeness of my island and sure enough... I had ivory on the far side of my island.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1240452497.jpg I had 15 cities on my home island... pretty good for a small map. Pretty good even for a standard map. I did finally manage the Heroic Epic, but of course late. I believe I popped SGLs on Monotheism and Theology, and that's it. I had planned on building the Hanging Gardens, but then popped a Monotheism SGL, and used "what's the big picture" to immediately swap to the Statue of Zeus without any shields wasted. Then I think I planned on using The Great Wall as a pre-build on The Sistine Chapel, but then got a Theology SGL and finished off the Great Wall and SGLed the Sistine Chapel. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-2270 BC (only having to put out one extra worker, if that, sure is nice)
Oracle-1675 BC
Temple-1600 BC
Museum of Mausollos-1300 BC
Great Lighthouse-1000 BC
Little Library-975 BC
Great Library-610 BC
Statue of Zeus-450 BC
Hanging Gardens-430 BC (SGL 1... this triggered my GA)
Great Wall-270 BC
Sistine Chapel-250 BC (SGL 2)
Cathedral-190 BC
University-90 BC
Colosseum-10 BC
Copernicus's Observatory-280 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-450 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-620 AD
Newton's University-730 AD
Magellan's Voyage-840 AD (having weak AI sure helped lock these up)
Smith's Trading Company-980 AD
Universal Suffrage-1090 AD
Theory of Evolution-1160 AD
Hoover's Dam-1250 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1280 AD
Wall Street-1300 AD
Heroic Epic-1405 AD
Military Academy-1410 AD (MGL rush, I guess)
Research Lab-1425 AD
SETI-1475 AD
1485 AD-finish.
This sort of game tempts me to think that minimum non-alphabetic scientific opponents might actually work out as better on some Deity maps. Especially if you have Masonry, since you can easily use that instead of Alphabet to get Bronze Working and other techs.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1240452496.jpg
The AIs really came out much weaker than other Deity games I've played. How much weaker? Usually, they'll get me to Gunpowder. In this one, I think they got me Feudalism and I actually ended up researching Engineering myself. I considered climbing up to Free Artistry before going to Astronomy, but my SGL made things such that I decided I'd better go to Astronomy first.
I met the Zulu first and noticed they had The Wheel and a slew of ancient tech early on. I could have explored north, but decided to go around their island thinking that Japan or Mongolia must share the island with them, since they had so much tech early. Sure enough I met Japan on that island. I think they only had 4 cities each on that island. Mongolia had more territory but did little research-wise. I noticed no one had ivory early on as a luxury. I thought it might lie on some unclaimed island. Then I noticed the largeness of my island and sure enough... I had ivory on the far side of my island.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1240452497.jpg I had 15 cities on my home island... pretty good for a small map. Pretty good even for a standard map. I did finally manage the Heroic Epic, but of course late. I believe I popped SGLs on Monotheism and Theology, and that's it. I had planned on building the Hanging Gardens, but then popped a Monotheism SGL, and used "what's the big picture" to immediately swap to the Statue of Zeus without any shields wasted. Then I think I planned on using The Great Wall as a pre-build on The Sistine Chapel, but then got a Theology SGL and finished off the Great Wall and SGLed the Sistine Chapel. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-2270 BC (only having to put out one extra worker, if that, sure is nice)
Oracle-1675 BC
Temple-1600 BC
Museum of Mausollos-1300 BC
Great Lighthouse-1000 BC
Little Library-975 BC
Great Library-610 BC
Statue of Zeus-450 BC
Hanging Gardens-430 BC (SGL 1... this triggered my GA)
Great Wall-270 BC
Sistine Chapel-250 BC (SGL 2)
Cathedral-190 BC
University-90 BC
Colosseum-10 BC
Copernicus's Observatory-280 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-450 AD
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-620 AD
Newton's University-730 AD
Magellan's Voyage-840 AD (having weak AI sure helped lock these up)
Smith's Trading Company-980 AD
Universal Suffrage-1090 AD
Theory of Evolution-1160 AD
Hoover's Dam-1250 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1280 AD
Wall Street-1300 AD
Heroic Epic-1405 AD
Military Academy-1410 AD (MGL rush, I guess)
Research Lab-1425 AD
SETI-1475 AD
1485 AD-finish.
This sort of game tempts me to think that minimum non-alphabetic scientific opponents might actually work out as better on some Deity maps. Especially if you have Masonry, since you can easily use that instead of Alphabet to get Bronze Working and other techs.
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Hey look two mongol horseman landed on my shores so I can maybe get an elite here sometime.
Next turn: Scratch that must have miscounted... there's only 1 horseman.
Turn after that: Sure you saw any horseman at all boss? There's nothing here for us to kill, sorry.
Anyone have any similar experiences on Sid 80% archipelago?
Next turn: Scratch that must have miscounted... there's only 1 horseman.
Turn after that: Sure you saw any horseman at all boss? There's nothing here for us to kill, sorry.
Anyone have any similar experiences on Sid 80% archipelago?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I've seen the AI disband units. It's not usual, but maybe the Mongols were out of money and those units got disbanded?
Calis
on time
Yes, when I did my SID 20K game I had the same thing happening. Units just disappeared (were disbanded). Just a coincidence, but it also were the Mongols IIRC.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I've seen it quite frequently that units landed in the interturn don't survive the upkeep phase.
I've even seen it on demigod.
I had a fairly decent one game on Sid Carthage where I got two SGLs, but I gave it up, and now I don't have the save anymore. I tried France, also on a standard map, where I used the second city as the 20k city, and I handbuilt the Pyramids even... but I gave that one up too, also too early. I played one with India where I didn't have any cows, but had a slew of wheat, and I used the second city. I wanted to play that out, but then Japan declared war on me and even though I managed to sell off all my libraries and universities interturn and buy an army, I stupidly used it to attack an infantry thinking "hey it's better on offense than defense" which applies *when* attacking cavalry NOT infantry. I had spoiled my reputation in the middle ages, to get a GA with a jumbo and that helped me build Cope's and Bach's. Since I had to do research myself I forgot about Shake's and built Newton's instead, pre-building almost all of it, and then also landed Smith's, in addition to already having Sistine, the Great Library, and the Statue of Zeus. My Byzantine 20k game seems quite irregular in that all the AIs died in terms of research early on on Sid. It seems that the AIs not only can way outbuild you on Sid... even on some 80% archipelago maps they can out research you. So, even a suped up start and good strategy for a Sid game might not work out as lucky enough. Japan practically had their own 20k game with Kyoto going on in this one (see saves below).
Sid tech cost ceases to amaze me. Anyone know how this works? I can find the AI-AI trade rate and the cost factor in the editor under 'difficulty level's, but I can't seem to find a setting that changes tech cost for the human player in the editor. Do techs actually cost less for the AIs or does the cost factor of '40' only apply to food and production?
Sid tech cost ceases to amaze me. Anyone know how this works? I can find the AI-AI trade rate and the cost factor in the editor under 'difficulty level's, but I can't seem to find a setting that changes tech cost for the human player in the editor. Do techs actually cost less for the AIs or does the cost factor of '40' only apply to food and production?
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I believe the cost factor is applied to you - so, Sid tech costs are more than twice as high as regent for the human player. Tech costs never change for the AI.
Well, I had a nice 20k Sid standard game going with Korea. I actually founded my capital, then produced a settler (and a warrior), then founded my second city and realized I wanted my 2nd city where my capital lay. So, I got out another settler, whipped out a worker after a turn, and founded my 20k site on a city with a bunch of bonus grassland. I forgot the unhappiness would transfer to my new capital. I met the Celts shortly after my first curragh came out and managed to trade both for Ceremonial Burial and Masonry with Alphabet and cash, I believe. I went Philosophy-Monarchy so I could build the Hanging Gardens, but didn't revolt as I wanted only one revolution. The Celts soon after that declared war on me, and I whipped out archers and horseman to fend them off, which I managed.
I drew Monotheism as my free tech, missed Bach's and Newton's, and trailed in tech in the high middle ages, but caught back up with Printing Press and Democracy when the lead AIs had entered the industrial ages, and got Steam Power as my free tech. I had coal, but had no iron and couldn't trade for it until I got halfway into Fission. Still, I built U. S. by hand and managed two SGLs for the Theory of Evolution and Hoover's Dam. I managed the U. N. also as well as Smith's, Shake's, the Sistine Chapel, the Statue of Zeus, The Museum of Mausollos, The Hanging Gardens, and the Great Library (and the small wonders, except for the militaristic ones and the modern ones). 100k seemed really close as the Mongols had actually climbed over it, but the Celts and Arabia both had half their culture... although Arabia seemed to keep revolting. But, I didn't think they would get there, and no one lay close enough to launching. I had settlers sitting around for hundreds of years at one point to increase my pre-build, which I eventually did on Fission and got the U. N. to try to make so I wouldn't lose diplomatically.
By the late 1600s everything looked good enough, for about a 1790 AD finish, making 113 culture per turn. Then the Mongols decided to declare war on me. In 1705 it asked me about elections for the second time, and since I didn't like this whole Sid bomber thing, and even while at peace on a standard map the late-game interturn time on Sid can get up there on my computer, I decided to just take the diplomatic victory.
I drew Monotheism as my free tech, missed Bach's and Newton's, and trailed in tech in the high middle ages, but caught back up with Printing Press and Democracy when the lead AIs had entered the industrial ages, and got Steam Power as my free tech. I had coal, but had no iron and couldn't trade for it until I got halfway into Fission. Still, I built U. S. by hand and managed two SGLs for the Theory of Evolution and Hoover's Dam. I managed the U. N. also as well as Smith's, Shake's, the Sistine Chapel, the Statue of Zeus, The Museum of Mausollos, The Hanging Gardens, and the Great Library (and the small wonders, except for the militaristic ones and the modern ones). 100k seemed really close as the Mongols had actually climbed over it, but the Celts and Arabia both had half their culture... although Arabia seemed to keep revolting. But, I didn't think they would get there, and no one lay close enough to launching. I had settlers sitting around for hundreds of years at one point to increase my pre-build, which I eventually did on Fission and got the U. N. to try to make so I wouldn't lose diplomatically.
By the late 1600s everything looked good enough, for about a 1790 AD finish, making 113 culture per turn. Then the Mongols decided to declare war on me. In 1705 it asked me about elections for the second time, and since I didn't like this whole Sid bomber thing, and even while at peace on a standard map the late-game interturn time on Sid can get up there on my computer, I decided to just take the diplomatic victory.
I've been playing a Huge Deity SS run lately as Sumeria with all the scientific tribes, Egypt (industrious tribes develop quickly), Carthage (seafaring for cash), the Maya, France (commercial for cash), England, Japan, and the Dutch. I had one before this with I think the Hittities and someone else instead of Egypt and the Maya I believe (both who've ended up as relatively useless actually). In the first game, I missed the Great Library in a Temple of Artemis cascade, as the AIs researched Literature in time. Still, I managed to trade for all ancient techs (except Republic) and the first three medieval techs in that one, but I gave that one up as I thought the Republic would come as too expensive.
In the second I have going, 2 turns before the Great Library finished, I traded away Literature, obtaining the rest of the ancient techs (with all the contacts, maybe lacking one or two) except the Republic, and the first three medievals. I shut research off, and then ended up turning research on after a few turns and still beat the AIs to Theology. I also ended up buying The Republic with only one tribe knowing it and selling it back for much of my gpt. I only ended up getting Invention from the Great Library, and since tourist commerce probably won't have much effect on a Huge map later on, it seems I may as well forget it at this level. I'll probably finish the game, but I've had poor fortune really. I got Steam Power and Medicine using "what's the big picture", but NONE of the other 8 scientific tribes drew Nationalism (go figure), and I drew Ironclads. I did have a war with the English which resulted in more territory. I had to use the luxury slider due to weariness, but it went quickly enough that I actually ended up getting Refining a turn fast, I believe, than had I not annexed England.
Anyways... since Literature (and enkidus going out and getting contacts earlier) has yielded so much tech *a few turns after* I've learned it, I have a strategy which I'll have to test out on this sort of map with 15 other tribes at this level. I won't research anything until I buy Alphabet, and Writing (the first game had 10% runs on these, both of which I bought later, the second I had 0% science and just stashed cash). Then I'll go full out on Literature. I won't trade it immediately. I'll research Philosophy, since it's the cheapest tech other than Polytheism (which is cheaper? I'm not sure. But, getting Mysticism might be problematic, and I want Monarchy to help with possible trading opportunities.) One turn before I learn Philosophy, I'll trade away Literature for all the other ancient techs including Monarchy. Then, as I learn Philosophy, I'll try to buy the first level medieval techs for an attempt at Theology as my second level tech, which I'll immediately sell back for my gpt back. If I don't get Theology, I'll still sell back the tech I get... if I can buy all the other ones sucessfully *without* having to take my free tech beforehand.
In the second I have going, 2 turns before the Great Library finished, I traded away Literature, obtaining the rest of the ancient techs (with all the contacts, maybe lacking one or two) except the Republic, and the first three medievals. I shut research off, and then ended up turning research on after a few turns and still beat the AIs to Theology. I also ended up buying The Republic with only one tribe knowing it and selling it back for much of my gpt. I only ended up getting Invention from the Great Library, and since tourist commerce probably won't have much effect on a Huge map later on, it seems I may as well forget it at this level. I'll probably finish the game, but I've had poor fortune really. I got Steam Power and Medicine using "what's the big picture", but NONE of the other 8 scientific tribes drew Nationalism (go figure), and I drew Ironclads. I did have a war with the English which resulted in more territory. I had to use the luxury slider due to weariness, but it went quickly enough that I actually ended up getting Refining a turn fast, I believe, than had I not annexed England.
Anyways... since Literature (and enkidus going out and getting contacts earlier) has yielded so much tech *a few turns after* I've learned it, I have a strategy which I'll have to test out on this sort of map with 15 other tribes at this level. I won't research anything until I buy Alphabet, and Writing (the first game had 10% runs on these, both of which I bought later, the second I had 0% science and just stashed cash). Then I'll go full out on Literature. I won't trade it immediately. I'll research Philosophy, since it's the cheapest tech other than Polytheism (which is cheaper? I'm not sure. But, getting Mysticism might be problematic, and I want Monarchy to help with possible trading opportunities.) One turn before I learn Philosophy, I'll trade away Literature for all the other ancient techs including Monarchy. Then, as I learn Philosophy, I'll try to buy the first level medieval techs for an attempt at Theology as my second level tech, which I'll immediately sell back for my gpt back. If I don't get Theology, I'll still sell back the tech I get... if I can buy all the other ones sucessfully *without* having to take my free tech beforehand.
The aforementioned SS game has gone *well enough*. Well, I had originally planned to attack France for their territory before England, but they researched Fascism before anyone else and then had so much gpt from selling it to everyone else. Korea declared war on France sometime when I researched Combustion or Mass Production. I had kept RoPs with all the scientific tribes, but not the other ones, so this resulted in France trespassing on my territory. So, I made them furious and then had them declare on me. I had cavs. and artillery proper vs. rifles in the English war, and cavs. and artillery proper vs. infantry in the French war. Halfway through the French war I started wondering why I had had so many elite victories in both wars and no leaders. Then I remembered I had a second (the first one I used for Smith's) SGL lying around waiting for me to use on Hoover's Dam... and the silly game won't give you an MGL when you have an SGL (sounds like a programming mistake to me, but I don't know). So, I fought the entire French war without any armies... taking all their cities but Rheims. I did get weariness there, but since I slowed my research down on Motorized Transportation, so I could trade for Flight and have a chance at a second-level tech.
The AIs got Flight for me faster than the 4-6 turns it would have taken for me to reserach it, I managed to buy all the first level techs from the AIs, and as my free tech I got...
I got...
RECYLCLING! Blah! No second-level techs in middle ages, then Ironclads without any AIs getting Nationalism, and then freaking Recycling as my free tech in the modern era! And it's a space race game! Oh well. At least all the extra cities (with courthouses, police stations, libraries, universities, research labs, and other improvements of course) from the French and English lands meant that it took me 5 turns to research Mass Production, would have taken me only 5 turns to research Motorized Transportation, 6 turns to research Miniaturization, 5 turns on Space Flight, 4 on Nuclear Power, 4 on The Laser, 5 on Robotics, and it'll take me 5 turns on The Superconductor, and 5 turns on Satellites if I get there first, of course. Edit: Satellites actually dropped to 4 turns after I finished The Superconductor.
The AIs just learned Synthetic Fibers for me, and I think it's 1305. I could have easily taken the diplomatic victory around 1120 for a number 1 diplomatic spot (and still could with a 1450 AD as the number one spot for Diplomatic Deity Huge), but I played this one for space, and I'll finish it out tommorow and try to get some pictures up. The game actually crashed on my last turn, but I hadn't moved any workers or anything before it crashed. I've loaned out all that AIs gold for basically the whole game, except when I stopped with the non-scientific AIs after a while and I think I forgot a turn or two. I have a cultural lead over all the AIs.
This game has *thoroughly* convinced me.... it's MUCH better to play keep and capture, and *BUY* courthouses, police stations, libraries, etc. than to put up scientist farms *so long as you have the cash*. I've seen a quick jump in science in 2-4 turns once I've had the ability to buy these structures. Then later on, since I buy aqueducts, hospitals, and markets and water all I can, I end up with even more beakers from researchers. The upshot seems that scientist farms work out better at lower levels and/or smaller map sizes where you have less gpt available from AIs you're at peace with (then again Archphoenix's game played on a small map... but it was Deity), while you'll want more cities with courthouses, police stations, libraries, aqueducts, etc. at upper levels and/or larger maps where you can leech gpt and lump sums off the AIs.
I've also put granaries in all my cities instead of using worker pumps this game, and actually I think this has worked out better overall. The calculations for growing via worker pumps seem good in the abstract, but it makes harder to plant and chop forests, you have to pay upkeep and probably wait as the workers move from city to city, and having granaries once you've watered also makes things better. I also tried to make a more concerted effort once I started watering to match this up better in ways to speed city growth... I had basically a rail net to connect my cities and then would water roaded mined squares before railroading in cities that had high numbers to grow.
Having the extra territory from England and France has meant that even though I don't have all the luxuries native, I believe I have all the resources native... something that I rarely have happen in a space game. I finally launched in 1350 AD, a launch date plenty beatable.
The AIs got Flight for me faster than the 4-6 turns it would have taken for me to reserach it, I managed to buy all the first level techs from the AIs, and as my free tech I got...
I got...
RECYLCLING! Blah! No second-level techs in middle ages, then Ironclads without any AIs getting Nationalism, and then freaking Recycling as my free tech in the modern era! And it's a space race game! Oh well. At least all the extra cities (with courthouses, police stations, libraries, universities, research labs, and other improvements of course) from the French and English lands meant that it took me 5 turns to research Mass Production, would have taken me only 5 turns to research Motorized Transportation, 6 turns to research Miniaturization, 5 turns on Space Flight, 4 on Nuclear Power, 4 on The Laser, 5 on Robotics, and it'll take me 5 turns on The Superconductor, and 5 turns on Satellites if I get there first, of course. Edit: Satellites actually dropped to 4 turns after I finished The Superconductor.
The AIs just learned Synthetic Fibers for me, and I think it's 1305. I could have easily taken the diplomatic victory around 1120 for a number 1 diplomatic spot (and still could with a 1450 AD as the number one spot for Diplomatic Deity Huge), but I played this one for space, and I'll finish it out tommorow and try to get some pictures up. The game actually crashed on my last turn, but I hadn't moved any workers or anything before it crashed. I've loaned out all that AIs gold for basically the whole game, except when I stopped with the non-scientific AIs after a while and I think I forgot a turn or two. I have a cultural lead over all the AIs.
This game has *thoroughly* convinced me.... it's MUCH better to play keep and capture, and *BUY* courthouses, police stations, libraries, etc. than to put up scientist farms *so long as you have the cash*. I've seen a quick jump in science in 2-4 turns once I've had the ability to buy these structures. Then later on, since I buy aqueducts, hospitals, and markets and water all I can, I end up with even more beakers from researchers. The upshot seems that scientist farms work out better at lower levels and/or smaller map sizes where you have less gpt available from AIs you're at peace with (then again Archphoenix's game played on a small map... but it was Deity), while you'll want more cities with courthouses, police stations, libraries, aqueducts, etc. at upper levels and/or larger maps where you can leech gpt and lump sums off the AIs.
I've also put granaries in all my cities instead of using worker pumps this game, and actually I think this has worked out better overall. The calculations for growing via worker pumps seem good in the abstract, but it makes harder to plant and chop forests, you have to pay upkeep and probably wait as the workers move from city to city, and having granaries once you've watered also makes things better. I also tried to make a more concerted effort once I started watering to match this up better in ways to speed city growth... I had basically a rail net to connect my cities and then would water roaded mined squares before railroading in cities that had high numbers to grow.
Having the extra territory from England and France has meant that even though I don't have all the luxuries native, I believe I have all the resources native... something that I rarely have happen in a space game. I finally launched in 1350 AD, a launch date plenty beatable.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Can I ask why you went with so many opponents? Fewer opponents means more room to expand, is all.
Circa 1000 BC:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144554.jpg
Circa 10 AD:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144553.jpg
The Finish:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144552.jpg
Final Victory screen:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144927.jpg
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144554.jpg
Circa 10 AD:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144553.jpg
The Finish:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144552.jpg
Final Victory screen:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1242144927.jpg
AutomatedTeller said:
I think that a very fair question. A few months back I started some game with just 8 scientific opponents on such a map, and I noticed the tech pace went really slowly in the ancient age (not sure what I was trying to do in that one). I've also played some Large maps with just the scientific opponents, and it didn't seem like having more territory in the middle ages for everyone really picked up the tech pace all that much. I think I also had more cash, earlier since I had more trading partners that I could sell techs to. I know I had positive gpt after I learned Theology, and I believe banked more cash this way. I did have a surplus at the end, but I know I either delayed some buys or accidently had cash in bank under 1000 (think Wall Street) after I started buying improvements in all the French territory. I didn't anticipate it, but more opponents also makes things easier in terms of trading for techs. With this sort of map it looks like you only need to get to Literature first to get to the middle ages, while with fewer opponents that might work out as more difficult.
Let's see... I finished the Great Library in 610 BC, and I know I traded Literature away when it read I had 2 turns left on the Great Library, so I entered the middle ages in 650 or 630 BC however the game works (I shouldn't have shut research off for a few turns on Theology, as I did). I actually checked your Celt Huge game, and see that at 10 AD you didn't have any medieval techs and were researching Engineering, while in this game I already had started research on Banking (all universities in the cities I had then got bought in 10 BC the turn I learned Education). I guess you probably wanted to slow the tech pace down, but still, that sounds like quite a slower pace in general for min opponents than max opponents.
Also, I don't have to grow my cities all myself and put out as many settlers (lower population earlier implies slower research earlier... at least until a few turns after those new cities have grown). As we know, the AIs grow faster than you in general, because of cheaper growth cost, and the AIs favoring of irrigation over mining. So, once I got to conquering, I had a bunch of citizens that I got for free... once I could quell the resistance, of course (which I didn't focus on until AFTER I had exterminated the English or the French as the case may be)... although maybe I did the conquering later than one might have done in a more optimal game... you know... one where you don't get stinking Ironclads and Recycling as your free techs!
