Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts

[AutomatedTeller]

I may have shut off research entirely on that Celt game for awhile, cause feudalism invalidates the GS. It's very unusual for me to not be part way through the middle ages by that time - even in the large Sid 20K game, I was on printing press at 10 AD.

 

[Spoonwood]

I managed a 1275 AD SS game with but one city.

 

[Spoonwood]

I played a standard Sid 60% pangea game with Sumeria with the Greeks, the Germans, the Ottomans, Persia, Babylon, Korea, and the Byzantines with sedentary barbs to help pick up the tech pace. I thought I'd leave Russia out, since they probably wouldn't do much after the ancient age. I decided to play a map with a large domination limit (1611) from what I got from MapFinder. I didn't remember Bartleby's list, but it looks like that anything above 1600 comes as a fairly big domination limit. The thinking went, the larger the domination limit, the more territory for everyone, thus the more beakers everyone would have. Here's the start (I settled on the hill on the river:

Spoiler :

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/?action=view&current=1262646668.jpg

I didn't notice a terribly fast ancient age, but the Byzantines ended up with over 1000 gold before we hit the middle ages. I researched The Wheel first. No one near me had extra horses. So, then I researched Iron Working so that I could start to catch up in tech making strategic use of Moonsinger's Green Rule from the HoF rulebook pillaging at my border (Lord_Emsworth and I have discussed this elsewhere). I don't believe I even partially bought either tech.

I "bought" (read used Moonsinger's Green Rule) the rest of the ancient age... even Ceremonial Burial... starting with trading for Germany's iron to get the techs. I think this started the turn after I learned Iron Working. Then I think traded with the Ottomans who had an extra luxury, as Germany lagged behind them, then also the Byzantines with an extra luxury. I decided to keep control of the luxuries as much as possible (though I passed on controlling resources), so I made the effort to get two enkidus and 6 workers at the border:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646671.jpg

I had 11 core cities with a twelth city in the jungle which had spices nearby. Scouting a little pays off:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646669.jpg

I didn't get a second-level middle age tech, I think because I deteremined I didn't have the gpt or cash at the time. I entered the middle ages in 1200 BC with my empire looking like this:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646665.jpg

After a bit it seemed no one wanted to research Literature, so I did that myself and then quickly got it away to the AIs. I hadn't started by 1000 BC, but I did have 1430 gold in the bank, all commerce going to taxes, wines coming from the Ottomans, silks from the Greeks, and some nice deals with Theodora:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646672.jpg

How do you do that? Well, *first* make a trade with you giving them your lump sum for their gpt (the order here ensures you won't take more gpt than they have). Then make another deal where you include gpt for their luxury/resource and the lump sum you gave them. Then disconnect the trade route. It can work quite well until they go broke (read go and war, and revolt to Monarchy/Fascism/Communism). My 510 BC has me 287 gpt from other tribes and 259 gpt from my cities.

When Gunpowder came out, no one knew Theology. So, I started research on Chemistry. I got beat to Chemistry, so I "bought" it. I know I "bought" Theology and Education, and then reserached Banking, from which point I think I roaded my border squares, trading instead of "buying" techs, except for once when I remember pillaging my borders. I did have a bunch of units standing bye ready to pillage if needed:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646667.jpg

I felt a Cope's pre-build tricky to execute, so I decided not to build it, but I did manage to get Newton's University via pre-building. In a game with Egypt without any sci opponents, I "bought" the last medieval tech in about 50 BC. In this game, I learned the last medieval tech in 310 AD, slightly getting beat to it. I bought all three first level industrial techs and then got Sanitation as my free tech. Techs on Sid cost a lot:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646666.jpg

Shortly after that I declared war on Germany and took some of their cities. I wanted them around to the modern era and didn't want war weariness, so I made peace as soon as I could, after taking 3 or 4 of their cities. They must have had some war going on, as they didn't pose any real problem. 1 or 2 of the captured cities flipped back before the 20 turn period expired and I basically got the rest of Germany's cities on the second run, except for 1 which I kept around. Babylon had fought with them at this time also.

2 of their cities flipped back before I got to the modern age, and with like 2 turns left on Motorized Transportation (and with Persia knowing Flight already, I just needed to trade for it, which I did 1 turn before learning MT with some gpt and Mass Production), Babylon took out Germany's last city. Oh well.

On the other hand, I got a leader in the German war. It also turned out that one of Germany's cities that flipped to them and then got captured by Babylon had both Uranium and Aluminum within one step of it. It became a Byzantine city and then a Babylonian city at some point:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646673.jpg

The Ottomans got pushed off the mainland and ended up with an OCC from the early industrial ages on. I went Electricity-Sci Method-wait 4 or 5 turns for TOE to finish-Atomic Theory-Electronics-Steel-Combustion-Mass Production-Motorized Transportation and managed to trade for Refining, Industrialization, Replacable Parts, The Corporation, and Flight (did I miss any?). I didn't have coal for a long time in the industrial age.

I had 1 source of ivory native (no SoZ), and spices once I built harbors, and managed to trade for only 3 other luxuries much of the game. So, temples, cathedrals, and even colosseums got built. I barely managed Hoover's Dam in time, as Persia decided to actually research Atomic Theory at some point (thus they could see Electronics). I had planned on a modern age GA, but it ended up starting with me reseraching Mass Production. I did gift up in the modern age with 3 tribes drawing Rocketry, 2 Computers, Persia Fission, and I got Nuclear Power as my free tech. Then I reserached The Laser. I nailed SETI, but didn't build (or even try for) the U. N. No one ever held an election.

Most of the AIs played this game in "bloodbath" mode constantly finding someone to war with. I declared on Greece after entering the modern age, as I only lacked aluminum, and they had a source. They had a war going on with Korea at the time, so even though I killed three mech infantry first by redlining them with artillery, then using 3-cavalry armies to finish them off, though posed little of a problem. I kept their cities for a turn, sold all their improvements, and then abandoned them, replacing them with my own settlers.

I had an extra supply of uranium, which eventually depleted. I did sell some luxuries and resources in the industrial age, but stopped in the modern age, as I thought I might end up in trouble if I traded techs. So, I decided I'd pillage out the capital and "buy" any tech I needed, but the AIs beat me to. I had traded for coal, but lost it at some point. After the Laser I researched Space Flight, as I thought the AIs would research Miniaturization first. The Persians had extra oil and beat me to Space Flight by 5 or 6 turns, having a monopoly on it. So, I pillaged out the 8 tiles directly adjacent to my capital... and didn't have enough gpt even after changing all my specialists to tax collectors and using tax collectors in the new cities which didn't have markets. I had watered everything, so that's not just a few tax collectors either, but I didn't have any stock exchanges, and probably not enough banks. So, I traded Persia the Laser for Space Flight and lived with the 8 tiles around my capital only having roads for the rest of the game.

I managed to trade for more luxuries around here, which helped, as some of the old German cities used a lot of tiles. But, a bunch of tribes dogpiled the Byzantines who supplied me with 2 or 3 luxuries, and eventually I got riots in cities losing luxuries unexpected. Eventually I realized I could build a colony or plop a settler down in those spots to get my luxuries back, but that didn't happen right away. I even had my first run in with a nuclear meltdown. After picking up Space Flight I think I went for Ecology, so that I could trade it away and the AIs could get it for me. I think I traded for all of Miniaturization, though maybe I researched part of it.

Next came The Superconductor, which I held as a monopoly until the final turn (unless Robotics came next). Then came Robotics, which Persia beat me to by a few turns. Then came Satellites, which Babylon to by a few turns. I had expected the AI would go for Synthetic Fibers earlier, but I guess I had a strange game. Maybe I traded them Ecology late though. I researched Synthetic Fibers and sure enough got beat to it as my last tech by Persia. I didn't have to trade make it so that everyone had all required techs to pick it up, Persia lacked Satellites (and resources), and Babylon lacked the Superconductor and Syntehtic Fibers with them both at war with each other. So, I switched two pre-builds (one a Palace pre-build which I deliberately started a ways back so that I could get a lot of shields in for the Exterior Casing) to the last two parts, turned the luxury slider up to 100%, traded for the last luxury, and finally launched in 1370 AD:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1262646670.jpg

With a faster middle ages, a faster launch surely comes as possible. That and maybe the AIs not playing in "bloodbath" mode quite so much.

 

[Spoonwood]

Previous post now includes pictures .

 

[Spoonwood]

I had a rather good Deity 20k game. It took me some 10+ vet victories and probably then 10+ elite kills with Ancient Cavalry to finally spawn a leader a turn after I got my second SGL. I played on a small 80%, wet, warm, 3 billion archipelago Deity map with the Byzantines against the Mongols, Zulu, and Japanese. Neither the Mongols or Japanese researched Masonry early, and the Zulu took too long building it, so after the Colossus, and Oracle, I planned on handbuilding the Pyramids. That plan changed when I got an SGL on Mathematics right before it completed, so then I finished the Great Library, and then SGLed the Pyramids. I didn't have a river, but a lake, 2 grassland cows, a plains cow, a spice hill, and had 6 luxuries on my island [sic!]. I guess I didn't have any native resources (not like that matters all that much until Industrialization). I declared war on both the Japanese and Mongols to fish for an MGL using ancient cavalry (I had ivory native). One war often hasn't seemed to give me enough units to kill. I think I put barracks in my capital after the Colossus.

It only produced a settler and a curragh, never a worker, though sometimes I'll have it produce one in this sort of game, but it didn't seem best on this map. Micro-managing the capital until it hits size 12 often helps. I think I added in 2 workers, usually that's 4 or 5. I've started using the let them revolt for a turn, then change them back to content for the next turn to minimize food loss/starvation. Anyone know if you get production shields if the city riots the turn before you hit your new goverment?

In this game I didn't do that riot/starve trick, as I had 3 luxuries hooked up during the revolution and no food loss with everyone content. My second had two grassland cows, both of which I mined. Once my capital hit size 7, I more emphasized getting the 3 luxuries I initially saw hooked up, then increasing production as I had poor research initially until I had the Colossus up. I had three or four ancient cavalry before I declared war I think, letting the AIs initially plop right next to my undefended capital with a few catapults and a few more on the way. Mostly I tried to build infrastructure to keep reserach up while doing this.

I had some 26 shields pre-revolution, 28 shields post-revolution (Republic)... could have had 29 if I had researched Engineering but I beelined to Free Artistry after I pulled Monotheism, some 33 shields once I had Shake's and Engineering, and 98 once I got the coal plant and factory up (which I rushed via disanding my artillery type units and ancient cavalry). Here's the rundown:

Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-2230 BC
Oracle-1425 BC
Temple-1350 BC
Great Library-825 BC
Pyramids-800 BC (SGL 1)
Little Library-775 BC
Statue of Zeus-670 BC
Great Lighthouse-510 BC
Museum of Mausollos-390 BC
Colosseum-330 BC
Great Wall-110 BC
University-50 BC
Cathedral-30 AD
Hanging Gardens-250 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-440 AD
Cope's Observatory-560 AD
Sistine Chapel-740 AD
Newton's-860 AD
Bach's-870 AD (SGL 2)
Epic of Heroes-930 AD
Magellan's-1050 AD
Smith's-1140 AD
Universal Suffrage-1150 AD (SGL 3)
Military Academy-1200 AD
Intelligence Agency-1250 AD
TOE-1285 AD
Wall Street-1340 AD
Pentagon-1360 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1395 AD
Research Lab-1455 AD

I felt sort of disappointed before I wrote this. I wanted to beat 1485 at this level on an archipelago map. I looked back at my notes for my Carthage small and Byzantine standard 1485 finishes and noticed that I had SGLs in both games for the ever-so-expensive Sistine Chapel... relative to the time when you learn Theology it takes more turns than probably any wonder in the game. As you can see above if I had an SGL I could have put the thing in around 50 BC. Since I had to hand-build it, it didn't happen until 740 AD. And of course, I always seem to want better luck in the process of getting an MGL, but that's not very probable to begin with. Fast 20k finishes rely on leader luck. The corollary comes as to figure out how get more techs researched first, and manage to fight more battles for an MGL. Too bad the two don't fit together all that well.

 

[Spoonwood]

Since I've played a lot of 80% archipelago 20k games with weak research opponets lately (the Mongols, the Zulu, the Japanese, the Arabia, the Celts and the Aztecs also work, but they either research Masonry earlier than others or might go for Philosophy earlier or grow faster) I've decided to write some figures for consideration of potential 20k demi-god or deity players. I assume a tiny, small, standard, and possibly a large archipelago 80% map. In the ancient age, going max out with a good start I can usually pick up Writing, Code of Laws, Philosophy, The Republic, and Literature first quite handily. That's 5 techs. For a scientific tribe that gives the player a .2262 probability of at least one SGL (the formula comes as 1-.95^n for n techs researched first). For a non-scientific tribe, the human player has a .1413 probability of at least one SGL. Not too bad either way really.

The probability of 0 SGLs comes as .95^5=.7738 The probability of exactly 1 SGL comes as 5*(.95)^4*.05=.2036. So, the probability of at least two SGLs comes as 1-(.7738+.2036)=.0226 for a scientific tribe. The general formula for exactly n SGLs in t techs, if I recall basic cominatorics correctly, comes as tCn*p(SGL)^n*p(not SGL)^(t-n).

More often than not I can get Mathematics also first, but sometimes not. If so one can almost surely go Construction-Currency and also pick them up first. If not, one can still pick up Currency first. In the first case that's 8 ancient techs for a probability of .3366 or so for at least one SGL for a scientific tribe, and .2163 for a non-scientific tribe. For two ancient SGLs, exactly 0 SGL has a probability of .6634 and exactly 1 has a probability of 8*.05*(.95)^7=.2793, so you have a probability of .0573 for two SGLs with a scientific tribe. If one only picks up Currency first, that's 6 ancient age techs first which has a probability of .2649 for a scientific tribe and .167 for a non-scientific tribe yielding 1 SGL. Sometimes I've gotten to Polythesim first

In the middle ages I've taken a Monarchy detour for the Hanging Gardens soemtimes, but not usually. Usually I can pick up Monotheism, Theology, Education, Printing Press, Astronomy, Banking, Democracy, and Free Artistry quite handily first. I've left Music Theory out, since a scientific tribe might draw that as their free tech. That's 8 more techs. Supposing 7 ancient age techs, the probability of getting at least one SGL by this point (15 techs researched first) comes as .5367 for a scientific tribe and .3667 for a non-scientific tribe. If we throw in Chemistry, Physics, and Theory of Gravity, that gives us a probability of .6028 for a scientific tribe, and .4220 for a non-scientific tribe of getting at least one SGL. The upshot of this seems that on a map with weak researches, and control of the tech pace, the probability of getting at least one SGL for a high-culture wonder (either by doubling or from the middle ages) comes as high enough to say that it doesn't seem all too rare to get an SGL which signficiantly affects one's finish date.

For 2 SGLs in 15 techs, we have a probability of 1-(.4633+.3658)=.1709 for a scientific tribe and 1-(.6333+.2938)=.0729 for a non-scientific tribe. In 18 techs, we have a probability of
1-(.3972+.3763)=.2265 for a scientific tribe, and 1-(.5780+.3217)=.1003. So, even with a non-scientific tribe, one in ten games or so can get 2 SGLs by the end of the high middle ages. A scientific tribe by the 20th tech researched has a probability of .3585 for exactly 0 SGLs, .3774 for exactly 1 SGL, .1887 for exactly 2 SGLs, for a probability of .0754 of getting at least 3 SGLs. For a non-scientific tribe, we have .5438 for 0 SGLs, .336 for 1 SGL, .0988 for 2 SGLs, for .0214 of getting at least 3 SGLs. So, it works out as more probable that a scientific tribe gets 3 SGLs which matter in a game, than it gets an SGL on the first tech it researches, but not for a non-scientific tribe.

Most of these figures actually come out higher than I expected.

 

[Spoonwood]

I played a small demi-god 20k game with the Dutch, 80% wet, warm, 3 billion, arch with the Mongols, Japanese, and Zulu. I more-or-less just wanted to play well, and didn't aim at a particular finish spot. After a few-hand rolls I found a nice start with 2 wheat (note 001 lies on a bonus grassland):

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1265662463.jpg

I hesistated for a moment, as I've almost always insisted on at least one cow for this sort of game, but a few weeks ago I played out a wheat river start with a stack of more hills and had some 28 or so shields in Republic. I didn't do the computations to project how much I would have, but if you do them, with everything mined... for the Dutch, that's a 28 shield spot. My capital went curragh-settler-worker-worker, and maybe even a fourth one. Usually that's just one or none if a brown cow, but usually I have at lease one cow. I also didn't initially notice that I had a regular grassland right there on my coast. I should have, because when I set up my kill zone initially to fish for a leader, I left a bonus grassland open instead of that spot. I figured it out though after a few landings.

I had very good SGL fortune. I got SGLs on both Writing and Code of Laws. I traded for Masonry and as I recall no one seemed to get Mysticism for a good long while, so after the Colossus I had a Pyramids build going. I didn't want to finish it before becoming a Republic as it would have triggered an untimely GA (it's either an ultra-early GA via the Colossus, or a soon after entering Republic GA in my mind). I had I think 4 turns left on the Pyramids when the Zulu popped in with Map Making, so I traded for it, and put in the Great Lighthouse. Soon after I revolted to Republic, and upon entering Republic I SGLed the Orace and then the Pyramids. Unfortunately the Zulu got Philosophy, so I lost the happiness museum in the Pyramids cascade.

I didn't have ivory but managed to trade for it from the Japanese. The Zulu declared on me, or maybe they made a demand I refused, shortly after they got Map Making (my 1000 BC save has me at war with them), but they lay far away so I new I had some time. I did train some regular horseman though. I had a fairly small island:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1265662464.jpg

I did disband a few ancient cavalry for shields along the way to rush some buildings. After I had enough where I felt comfortable, and the Zulu hadn't even gotten me an elite yet, even though I had some x-turn deal exporting I think gems to the Japanese I declared on them also. By 10 AD I had a war with them going also. 2 wars does give one more units to fish for, but I have had some close calls where the AI lands in other spots (when I include other games)... and the probability of this seems to go up with a second war going on, as say when the landing spot gets blocked.

In this game I think the Japanese actually landed at the 8 spot of 002 and I had to run my AC over there without artillery support when I got my first MGL. I had fortified my elite AC in my capital after killing the first Zulu unit with it, letting the next one attack me. This worked the first time I tried it with a 1/3 Zulu warrior, but didn't work that time as it came as an 1/3 impi (offensive vs. defensive units). I don't know if I would try this with a 1/3 sword, and not a longbow either even with a 6/6 elite. I also had some landings at other spots (like near 009, which I should have island blocked with a worker instead of adding it in), but most of the time they came right to my fishing zone. The 10 AD save hopefully gives one a better idea of how to set up an MGL fishing zone:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1265662466.jpg

Not too many turns before I had declared on the Japanese. I didn't have any elites at this point, but as you can see 2 warriors, 5 AC (three in the stack on the square at the 9 spot from 001), and I have 5 catapults. 8 might come as a better number for catapults, especially if you plan on trying to fortify your unit in the capital (to increase the probability of redling all units). Defensive unit leaders and promotions come as less probable, and of course it's risky. Trebuchets of course come as better than catapults if you say draw Engineering or have a start that really could use some forests.

I managed to pop a third SGL on Printing Press, and with the Japanese having learned Monarchy, and I could make peace with them, I traded away for Monarchy, wasted a lot of shields to immediately finish the Hanging Gardens, and then SGLed the Sistine Chapel. Next I researched Astronomy. I almost totally hand-built the little university, but on the last turn I noticed it needed only 4 more shields or so, and decided it more efficient to build Cope's first. Soon after that I got an MGL, won an army battle, disbanded my artillery forces to help build the little university, made peace with both the Zulu and Japenese, sold off techs for gpt and luxuries (the AIs still seem to give gpt, luxes and techs for techs if you've spoiled your reputation, but you can't use gpt), and built the Heroic Epic. I had a build going on Bach's when the AI's showed up with Navigation, so I traded for it and over-built Magellan's. Japan declared on me late, which yielded me another MGL. That would seem it, but there's one more note of interest.

I did manage iron for the factory on an off-island settlement. I didn't have coal though. I noticed the Zulu potentially had two sources, so I gifted them Steam Power. They had one on their home island, and another on this island:

Spoiler :

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1265662465.jpg

I had a few problems. One they didn't have that island roaded from city to city. I sent workers to help with this (and signed an RoP, I hadn't spoiled that). I did a little investigation of Tugela at one point to see if they would build a harbor so they could get that second coal source. Something like a bank which would take 80 turns. No city on that island had a harbor and I knew that land too corrupt for them to build one. After a few turns I realized that with the marsh there I might just clear the marsh, plant a city on the marsh, short-rush a worker followed by a harbor, then road it to Zulu territory and their second coal source. And it worked. Too bad I already gotten midway throw Universal Suffrage by the time I had that coal route set up. Better late than never.

Oh, there's one more thing too. I did some calculations near the end, as I often do during this type of game, for projected finish date. So, after learning Miniaturization and spending a turn or turn researching Genetics I irrigated all my tiles on my home land (including the capital after it finished off the Internet), turned the luxury slider to 100%, added in some workers, and finally added in ALL of my workers the turn before I finished. The rundown:

Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-1830 BC (it's a wheat start)
Great Lighthouse-1375 Bc
Temple-1225 BC
Oracle-1175 BC (SGL 1)
Pyramids-1150 BC (SGL 2)
Little Library-1100 BC
Great Library-850 BC
Statue of Zeus-730 BC
Colosseum-630 BC
Great Wall-410 BC
Cathedral-310 BC
Hanging Gardens-110 AD
Sistine Chapel-130 AD (SGL 3)
Cope's Observatory-340 AD
University-380 AD
Heroic Epic-460 AD
Shakespeare's Theater-630 AD
Newton's-770 AD
Magellan's-900 AD
Bach's-1040 AD
Smith's-1170 AD
Universal Suffrage-1280 AD
Theory of Evolutin-1320 AD
Wall Street-1340 AD
Research Lab-1355 AD
United Nations (via SETI pre-build)-1410 AD
Battlefield Medicine-1415 AD
The Internet-1470 AD
Finish-1495 AD

 

[Spoonwood]

I feel like I should leave a note or two about my Sid standard conquest game at least. I played as the Maya on a 60% pangea map against 7 scientific opponents and sedentary barbs. Why 60% conquest? The finish dates came past 1000 AD, so I felt confident (since I learned up to get techs and cash on Sid) I could take the top spot without too much trouble. I fought one war with Knights and trebuchets against Sumeria where I had to re-take 4-6 cities on flips (maybe more, CrP Viewer would help get a better estimate). When I "bought" Gunpowder, no one had extra saltpeter and I had to wait almost until Military Tradition popped up to purchase saltpeter, which I got from the Greeks who hadn't supplied me with anything else. The Sumerian war got me my first leader, then came the Military Academy, and cash-rushing armies and upgrading horses to knights and then cavalry like a virus.

I put all the money I could towards taxes. I had over 30,000 gold in the bank at one point, via not doing research (no banks, just markets), and the use of Moonsinger's Green Rule as I like to call it. Since Bucephalus has popped back around and he may not have seen this elsewhere, that's basically:
1. You give them lump sums for gpt, (the order here ensures that they actually have gpt)
2. You give them gpt for THEIR luxuries/resources and techs/lump sums/military alliances.
3. You disconnect the trade route to your capital some way either a border square or your capital (I used BOTH in this game, first border squares, then the capital after it had the Military Academy up).
4. You don't export any luxuries or resources yourself.
5. I also tied in re-negotiation of peace treaties with some opponents luxuries so they would declare on me.

Most of the game felt like a supped up Deity game. The last AIs got Communism and/or Fascism at the end, a while after I had gifted everyone into the industrial age for the their free techs. The biggest difficulties I ran into came as that I had an extra island with a Byzantine city that I hadn't spotted early on, so I needed some 3-cavalry armies and some galleons, and it took me a few turns to find the last Byzantine settler on a galleon (and the Babylonians before that) and take it out with frigates.

 

[Bucephalus]

Nice of you to think of me, Spoons, but you're reinventing the wheel here - or as my late mother would have said, "you're teaching grandma to suck eggs..." I'm somewhat surprised this is allowed in HOF games, it's clearly an exploit, IMO.

I think I'm going to buy a new disc and return to playing Civ3; I haven't felt this enthusiastic about the game for years.

 

[Spoonwood]

It does have some drawbacks, and it wouldn't help improve times for a slew of tables. Thing about "exploits" in this game, to me, comes as that after a while I've started to think of turn-based play as an exploit, as the AI never can handle it half as a well as a human player can. I guess I have "reinvented the wheel", but it took me a while to find such information on these forums.

 

[del62]

Starting on a small deity map with Byzantines with mongols, zulu and japan what is your tech order?

Is it Masonry > Writing > COL > Philosophy> Republic (sling) > Literature ???

 

[Spoonwood]

The slingshot comes as a pretty close call on Deity. I go Writing-Code of Laws-Philosophy-Republic then usually Literature, but I sometimes think about Mathematics if I have ivory. I try to trade for Masonry/Mysticism through waiting to trade Alphabet away until the Colossus has finished and whatever pre-build on the Oracle/Pyramids I can find has 1 turn left (or would complete upon city growth).

 

[Spoonwood]

I haven't played Civ III since sometime in April or March now (maybe early May?). Currently, I'm waiting on my new computer to arrive and to get things set up.

What should be my first game back? (map size, desired VC, difficulty level)

 

[DWetzel]

Sounds like a job for a standard emperor space game to warm up.

 

[Pacioli]

DWetzel's suggestion is a good one. You've been known to play 20k game or two. Maybe standard emperor 20k.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Sid - Huge - Hist

 

[Spoonwood]

Sid - Huge - Hist

We're still waiting on yours Lord Emsworth . Turnabout is fair play. I might do that sometime. But, I think I'll do pangea, as I like pangea better in general for military games, even though it would end up lower-scoring.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

We're still waiting on yours Lord Emsworth . Turnabout is fair play. I might do that sometime. But, I think I'll do pangea, as I like pangea better in general for military games, even though it would end up lower-scoring.

I am not going to any hist games. Not in this life, at least. It is true, I had been at it a year ago on Vanilla Deity, but I lost interest in the tedium of MMing hundreds of cities and workers, and later on the saves.

 

[DWetzel]

Sid - Huge - Hist

That's just mean, man.

 

[Spoonwood]

Well, for my first game back I played a Demi-God 20k with Carthage.

I just finished a 100k game on Regent with Babylon in 800. I did play for and eventually get a Pyramids SGL. I built my Forbidden Palace before the ToA. Not sure if that works out better. I thought it would pick up my expansion, but it might work better culturally to build the ToA and then the FP, if you're using one city as I did. I handbuilt the Hanging Gardens. I don't think that payed off. I planned to handbuild the Sistine Chapel, and I do think that might have payed off, but I got a second SGL and SGL rushed it. I barely spent any cash in Republic, and I feel glad that I did, as I started losing a fair amount of gold every turn towards the end. I built like 2-4 markets. I whipped a fair amount of settlers. Sometimes I would whip in a settler 1 turn *before* it hit say size 4, so long as the city would grow the next turn. Some notes:

10 shields in the box at size 4: whip a settler to go back to 3 population before the settler comes out.

1 shield in the box at size 5: whip in a settler to go back to 3 population before the settler comes out.

10 shields in the box at size 3: short-rush a settler to whip in a 40 shield library.

1 shield in the box at size 5: short-rush a barracks/40 shield unit, then short-rush a musket, then whip in an 80 shield cathedral.

1 shield in the box at size 5: short-rush a barracks and switch to a colosseum. Without the agricultural trait a city can grow in 2 turns at size 3 (with irrigated grasslands). If you have the agricultural trait, I would guess one can probably short-whip in those shields at size 4 and still grow the city in 2 turns.

Post Scriptum: I feel 100k game pics kind of bland. But, here's two of them.

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