Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Before my old computer died I was trying to improve upon my Deity 1485 20k date and dethrone Killercane's top spot on the overall Deity 20k tables. Since I haven't mastered kill 'em and build 'em on a tiny map, I thought a small map would give me the best probability of beating it. Finding a small map with a river and a cow does take MapFinder a while... it's like 1 in 200, instead of 1 in 100 maps, but with my new computer I can run it faster than I use to. The map I had did have a river in the city's radius, but I didn't found it on the river. Rather I found it on the lake. Here's the start:
On standard and larger maps, and even small or tiny maps, I've gone curragh-settler-worker-Colossus. But, after I don't know how many games I finally figured out that contacting the AIs too early tends to result in them getting Alphabet earlier (Mongols, Zulu, Japan as opponents... Japan often runs to Mysticism fast on a small map). So, in this game I went settler-curragh-worker-Colossus. While trying to road the game, I guess I missed the "volcano is active" warning, as it erupted on its self and one of my workers early on. I had 27 shields once I cleaned the mess up and got the city to size 12. I had 30 shields once I forested (couldn't get to 31, even though I had an extra food). I had 38 shields once I added workers in after Shake's. I had 90 some shields after the factory, coal plant, and railroading. I ended up settling a spot near Japan which caused a false war with them to get coal. They never landed a unit on me, and I don't believe I even saw a ship of theirs moving around.
I didn't have all too much commerce in the capital, as I didn't found on a river so I missed some early commerce there, and I used the volcano tile for shields instead of a river or mountain. I got Feudalism as my free tech, and I had 4 extra food and 27 shields, so I researched Engineering so I could forest squares. Consequently, it took a while to get up to Free Artistry, and thus Shake's came late. But, this map worked. Not having a river for commerce to get to the Republic slingshot didn't matter as much as it seems to have on other maps I've tried, I think, because the AIs didn't have all that much room to expand on their home islands. Here's a screenshot from 10 CE which gives you an idea here:
After I met Japan I realized I needed the Lighthouse to obtain ivory. Japan didn't get anywhere close to Mathematics by that time, and even though I went Writing-Code of Laws-Philosophy-The Republic-Literature, I still managed to beat everyone to Masonry and hand-built the Pyramids. Here's a GA shot of my capital where I'm prebuilding with a courthouse, which became the Lighthouse. I had two turns left on Masonry at this point in 1000 BC:
I also had two ancient age SGLs (I think on Literature and Construction or Currency), so believe it or not I managed to put all the ancient wonders in the capital. I got two more SGLs, I believe on Music Theory and Physics.
I did spend a turn putting barracks in my capital for the ancient cavalries. The Mongols put two cities on my island. I captured one and I think got a promotion to elite on my second veteran victory. They landed a warrior/settler pair near some of my units in the middle of that war, and a horseman came out of the second city, so I had to cut that war off early. I only waited like 5 or so turns to redeclare, and by not having attack/defensive units in my capital (I did have some catapults in there), they landed units near it. In 30 BC on my 3rd elite AC victory I spawned an MGL and managed an army victory on the same turn. I didn't even have the cathedral up, so I ended up disbanding my army after finishing the Heroic Epic to rush in the cathedral. Usually in this sort of game I can break into the modern era. Though, after learning Replacable Parts and not yet having Combustion, I only had 8 or so turns left, so I set all commerce to luxuries. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-2150 BC
Little Temple-1950 BC
Oracle-1450 BC
Museum of Mausollos-1100 BC
Little Library-1075 BC
Great Library-1050 BC (SGL 1)
Great Lighthouse-850 BC
Statue of Zeus-730 BC
Colosseum-670 BC
Pyramids-370 BC
Big Temple-350 BC (SGL 2)
Great Wall-110 BC
Heroic Epic-30 CE
Little Cathedral-50 CE
Sistine Chapel-350 CE
Little University-360 CE
Hanging Gardens-460 CE
Cope's-600 CE
Bach's-610 CE (SGL 3)
Shake's-760 CE
Newton's-870 CE
Leo's Workshop-880 CE (SGL 4)
Magellan's-990 CE
Smith's-1150 CE
Universal Suffrage-1150 CE
Theory of Evolution-1290 CE
Wall Street-1310 CE
Hoover Dam-1355 CE
Intelligence Agency-1405 CE
Battlefield Medicine-1435 CE
Finsh-1450 CE.
Spoiler :
On standard and larger maps, and even small or tiny maps, I've gone curragh-settler-worker-Colossus. But, after I don't know how many games I finally figured out that contacting the AIs too early tends to result in them getting Alphabet earlier (Mongols, Zulu, Japan as opponents... Japan often runs to Mysticism fast on a small map). So, in this game I went settler-curragh-worker-Colossus. While trying to road the game, I guess I missed the "volcano is active" warning, as it erupted on its self and one of my workers early on. I had 27 shields once I cleaned the mess up and got the city to size 12. I had 30 shields once I forested (couldn't get to 31, even though I had an extra food). I had 38 shields once I added workers in after Shake's. I had 90 some shields after the factory, coal plant, and railroading. I ended up settling a spot near Japan which caused a false war with them to get coal. They never landed a unit on me, and I don't believe I even saw a ship of theirs moving around.
I didn't have all too much commerce in the capital, as I didn't found on a river so I missed some early commerce there, and I used the volcano tile for shields instead of a river or mountain. I got Feudalism as my free tech, and I had 4 extra food and 27 shields, so I researched Engineering so I could forest squares. Consequently, it took a while to get up to Free Artistry, and thus Shake's came late. But, this map worked. Not having a river for commerce to get to the Republic slingshot didn't matter as much as it seems to have on other maps I've tried, I think, because the AIs didn't have all that much room to expand on their home islands. Here's a screenshot from 10 CE which gives you an idea here:
Spoiler :
After I met Japan I realized I needed the Lighthouse to obtain ivory. Japan didn't get anywhere close to Mathematics by that time, and even though I went Writing-Code of Laws-Philosophy-The Republic-Literature, I still managed to beat everyone to Masonry and hand-built the Pyramids. Here's a GA shot of my capital where I'm prebuilding with a courthouse, which became the Lighthouse. I had two turns left on Masonry at this point in 1000 BC:
Spoiler :
I also had two ancient age SGLs (I think on Literature and Construction or Currency), so believe it or not I managed to put all the ancient wonders in the capital. I got two more SGLs, I believe on Music Theory and Physics.
I did spend a turn putting barracks in my capital for the ancient cavalries. The Mongols put two cities on my island. I captured one and I think got a promotion to elite on my second veteran victory. They landed a warrior/settler pair near some of my units in the middle of that war, and a horseman came out of the second city, so I had to cut that war off early. I only waited like 5 or so turns to redeclare, and by not having attack/defensive units in my capital (I did have some catapults in there), they landed units near it. In 30 BC on my 3rd elite AC victory I spawned an MGL and managed an army victory on the same turn. I didn't even have the cathedral up, so I ended up disbanding my army after finishing the Heroic Epic to rush in the cathedral. Usually in this sort of game I can break into the modern era. Though, after learning Replacable Parts and not yet having Combustion, I only had 8 or so turns left, so I set all commerce to luxuries. The rundown:
Palace-4000 BC
Colossus-2150 BC
Little Temple-1950 BC
Oracle-1450 BC
Museum of Mausollos-1100 BC
Little Library-1075 BC
Great Library-1050 BC (SGL 1)
Great Lighthouse-850 BC
Statue of Zeus-730 BC
Colosseum-670 BC
Pyramids-370 BC
Big Temple-350 BC (SGL 2)
Great Wall-110 BC
Heroic Epic-30 CE
Little Cathedral-50 CE
Sistine Chapel-350 CE
Little University-360 CE
Hanging Gardens-460 CE
Cope's-600 CE
Bach's-610 CE (SGL 3)
Shake's-760 CE
Newton's-870 CE
Leo's Workshop-880 CE (SGL 4)
Magellan's-990 CE
Smith's-1150 CE
Universal Suffrage-1150 CE
Theory of Evolution-1290 CE
Wall Street-1310 CE
Hoover Dam-1355 CE
Intelligence Agency-1405 CE
Battlefield Medicine-1435 CE
Finsh-1450 CE.
Brainiac18
Warlord
Good one
I wanted to wait until my recent 100k game got accepted before commenting. I played Tiny Chieftain with the Celts seeing if I could drop the fastest 100k for all tables down further. I had a domination limit of 606. The Pyramids finished in 3350 BC as I had learned Masonry a turn earlier. I played with sedentary barbs, hoping to pop a free settler. So, I put out warriors to try and pop one. I didn't even find a hut by the time I had 30 shields in the box, so I didn't get a free settler. But, besides the grassland cow I had for my capital, I had a grassland wheat, and a grassland cow a bit south of my capital, which I spotted I think before I had any settlers.
I prebuilt the ToA in another spot, even adding in workers when... I popped a second SGL on Construction in 1425 BC, so the ToA finished in 1400 BC. I decided I'd throw up the Forbidden Palace, and SGLed the ToA. I decided not to build any other wonders until I had all the other culture buildings up in my core and I didn't need any more settlers from it, since I get so many native content citizens. By 1000 BC I had 1727 culture, 45% of the territory, 1 turn left on Monotheism already knowing Feudalism, Engineering, Invention (which I had researched first), 5 settlers, and 44 workers. I decided to research all the way out to Military Tradition to try for more SGLs, which of course, didn't happen. I didn't research Theology. I never needed a war to capture any cities. By 510 BC I had 6730 culture, 62% of the world area, and 72 workers. By 10 AD I had 25,424 culture. I exceeded 60,000 culture in 470 AD. Building a minimal road network to connect the cities and irrigating otherwise I guess helps quite a bit. That and short-rushing if you have 1 shield in the box, as the Celts and you have gunpowder and saltpeter hooked up, you need...
5 citizens to whip in a library
5 citizens to whip in a cathedral
7 citizens to whip in a colosseum.
I prebuilt the ToA in another spot, even adding in workers when... I popped a second SGL on Construction in 1425 BC, so the ToA finished in 1400 BC. I decided I'd throw up the Forbidden Palace, and SGLed the ToA. I decided not to build any other wonders until I had all the other culture buildings up in my core and I didn't need any more settlers from it, since I get so many native content citizens. By 1000 BC I had 1727 culture, 45% of the territory, 1 turn left on Monotheism already knowing Feudalism, Engineering, Invention (which I had researched first), 5 settlers, and 44 workers. I decided to research all the way out to Military Tradition to try for more SGLs, which of course, didn't happen. I didn't research Theology. I never needed a war to capture any cities. By 510 BC I had 6730 culture, 62% of the world area, and 72 workers. By 10 AD I had 25,424 culture. I exceeded 60,000 culture in 470 AD. Building a minimal road network to connect the cities and irrigating otherwise I guess helps quite a bit. That and short-rushing if you have 1 shield in the box, as the Celts and you have gunpowder and saltpeter hooked up, you need...
5 citizens to whip in a library
5 citizens to whip in a cathedral
7 citizens to whip in a colosseum.
Last edited:
del62
Deity
Well done, setting new standards
Did you have scientific opponents for the age change, how many cities and what was your final culture per turn.
Edit other questions
Did you bother with Republic and at what point did you go Feudal
I did have the Byzantines and Korea as my opponents. I ended up with 94 cities. I disbanded at least 5 cities, 2 so I wouldn't creep over the domination limit. 3, because I didn't like their spots. Every one of my cities had a cathedral, colosseum, and library. I did bother with Republic. I entered the Middle Ages in 1425 BC after learning Construction, and went Feudal right away as I was able to trade for it. I know I was 4 or so tiles from the domination limit at one point, but my final save says I'm 14 from it. One city on the edge of your borders with a bunch of culture can make that much difference. MapStat tells me I was making 1214 culture per turn. I've clicked on "next turn" from the accepted save and it's gone from 60,720 culture to 61,920 which would be 1200 culture per turn. I did keep some statistics as I went along.
year total culture culture per turn estimated turns left
530 BC 6308
510 BC 6730 422 126
490 BC 7171 442 120
470 BC 7632 460 113
450 BC 8125 493 105
430 BC 8636 511 100
410 BC 9174 538 94
390 BC 9720 546 92
370 BC 10,307 587 84
350 BC 10,918 611 80
330 BC 11,553 635 76
310 BC 12,210 657 72
290 BC 12,905 695 67
270 BC 13,616 711 65
250 BC 14,347 731 62
230 BC 15,092 745 60
210 BC 15,855 763 57
190 BC 16,640 785 55
170 BC 17,445 805 52
150 BC 18,261 816 51
130 BC 19,095 834 49
110 BC 19,942 847 47
90 BC 20,811 869 45
70 BC 21,696 885 43
50 BC 22,604 908 41
30 BC 23,532 928 39
10 BC 24,475 943 37.6
10 AD 25,424 949 36.4
30 AD 26,379 955 35.2
50 AD 27,347 968 33.7
Edit: Unfortunately the spaces won't post here. But the above should do.
year total culture culture per turn estimated turns left
530 BC 6308
510 BC 6730 422 126
490 BC 7171 442 120
470 BC 7632 460 113
450 BC 8125 493 105
430 BC 8636 511 100
410 BC 9174 538 94
390 BC 9720 546 92
370 BC 10,307 587 84
350 BC 10,918 611 80
330 BC 11,553 635 76
310 BC 12,210 657 72
290 BC 12,905 695 67
270 BC 13,616 711 65
250 BC 14,347 731 62
230 BC 15,092 745 60
210 BC 15,855 763 57
190 BC 16,640 785 55
170 BC 17,445 805 52
150 BC 18,261 816 51
130 BC 19,095 834 49
110 BC 19,942 847 47
90 BC 20,811 869 45
70 BC 21,696 885 43
50 BC 22,604 908 41
30 BC 23,532 928 39
10 BC 24,475 943 37.6
10 AD 25,424 949 36.4
30 AD 26,379 955 35.2
50 AD 27,347 968 33.7
Edit: Unfortunately the spaces won't post here. But the above should do.
Nice game, Spoonwood. What do you think about extensive usage of worker joins to towns and then rushing? Is it allowed in HOF? Buy doing this you gain 10 shields from every worker (worker costs 10 shields, but you get 20 shields from every poprushed citizen)
Brainiac18
Warlord
It is allowed, only if the city is not rioting or starving. Really, 1 citizen=20shields?
I know I've used it a little bit in this game and in other games, as has Nikodemus
. Brainiac said it well. I've only used this once I have all cities founded, and I have all cultural buildings in a particular city... then it'll produce workers to help another city along. My intuition tells me you can more quickly obtain culture by just letting cities grow naturally than to use workers, unless a city already has all its cultural buildings up. I don't really know though.Nikodemus said:
If you have a 2 turn worker factory up, it takes at least 3 turns for a worker to join its other city. You also need mines around to do this. This might yield a building faster in the other city, but if you don't have cultural buildings in the city producing the worker, it seems like you'll get more culture from putting the buildings in both cities. Putting them in both cities requires irrigation, which doesn't give you as many shields. In my opinion, you really do need to irrigate everything once you have all the cities founded.
Since your core keeps producing settlers, it might start getting irrigation last, but with all those cities founded so close it becomes difficult to maximize growth speed, basically everywhere due to hills, mountains, and not enough grassland/food bonuses/flood plains. Without variance it works out faster to whip in an improvement than to build it. Shields only provide help if a core city can get out 20 shields before it hits size 5... or 6 or 7 if going for a colosseum with the Celts. Chopped forests sometimes yield 20 shields by that point, but only hear and there. Unless playing on Chieftain you also need to keep all that irrigation around for tax farms. So, it really does seem all about food even ideally.
As agricultural with the Pyramids, and a good city site, it takes 3 turns for a city to reach size 2, then 2 more to get to size 3, then 2 more to get size 4, and 2 more to get to size 5, for a total of 9 turns. A worker from a one-shield site takes 10 turns to train and at least one turn to move to a city, so 11 turns. Well, by that time, the city... if it has sufficient food, will already have hit size 5, by which time you can already have whipped in the cultural improvement. This also holds for the city which produces the worker... it could have its cultural improvement up by the end of these 11 turns. Shields corrupt, food doesn't. So, will specialized cities for workers really work out faster, especially when travel time gets taken into account (which, of course, gets longer and longer for larger map sizes)? I could be wrong, but in a 100k where cathedral A in city 1 has the same value as cathedral B in city 2, I simply don't see a worker-strategy actually working out faster with respect to finish date. Though of course, if a city already has a library, cathedral, and colosseum it producing a worker *then* can help.
It is allowed, only if the city is not rioting or starving. Really, 1 citizen=20shields?
If you have 10 shields in the box, 1 citzen=20 shields. You can pop-rush a settler or 30 shield unit with 10 shields in the box, I believe. Usually, with at least one shield in the box, and at size 5, I'll short-rush a longbow/barracks for 2 population... which isn't quite 1 citizen=shields. After that 1 citizen=shields, as before I move out of the city screen I'll pop-rush a 60 shield musket from that for one population point. Then something for 80 shields for one population point, and so on.
del62
Deity
What you can do on Cheiftain when you are not worrying about cash is in a city that has completed its culture is on reaching size 5 or about to grow to size 5 whip a settler out for a city that is less promising, (some cities may only be able to do 3 turn growth because of location)
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
but you lose 1 population when you build a worker - so it is really 10 food and 10 shields that gets converted into 20 shields (assuming you have pyramids). This is slightly worse than the 10 food = 20 shields from native population.
Well, I played one Sid small game with Carthage where I managed to get the Republic slingshot. I used a silk instead of a productive square in my capital and used 3 or so scientists in my size 10 20k site after it finished the Pyramids to speed up commerce. That game finished in 1780.
I played another game with England, where I researched Masonry first. I found Japan just in time, traded them Pottery for Ceremonial Burial, so my granary pre-build became a temple. Then I used the Pyramids as a pre-build on the Oracle. Then came the Museum of Mausollos (pre-builded via Palace). I took the Monarchy slingshot drew two turn anarchy, got an SGL and put in the Temple of Artmetis, the Hanging Gardens, and the Great Library in the ancient age. I missed Cope's, and delayed building the Heroic Epic so I got as many wonders as I could. I didn't have coal, nor the ability to trade for it until the very end. I finished that one in 1645. More details later maybe.
I played another game with England, where I researched Masonry first. I found Japan just in time, traded them Pottery for Ceremonial Burial, so my granary pre-build became a temple. Then I used the Pyramids as a pre-build on the Oracle. Then came the Museum of Mausollos (pre-builded via Palace). I took the Monarchy slingshot drew two turn anarchy, got an SGL and put in the Temple of Artmetis, the Hanging Gardens, and the Great Library in the ancient age. I missed Cope's, and delayed building the Heroic Epic so I got as many wonders as I could. I didn't have coal, nor the ability to trade for it until the very end. I finished that one in 1645. More details later maybe.
Pacioli
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 418
templar_x
usually walks his talks
it depends. was it a full slingshot (=self-researching CoL, then Philo) or a partly one (=self-researching Philo, ibt-trading for CoL, free tech Rep).
the first i have never seen myself. the latter is definitely possible on Demigod-Deity-Sid, but bears some risk and if you fail you are not in a good position.
templar_x
the first i have never seen myself. the latter is definitely possible on Demigod-Deity-Sid, but bears some risk and if you fail you are not in a good position.
templar_x
del62
Deity
on demigod and even deity as the right tribe (commercial or seafaring) and with the right opponents (non commercial and non seafaring) the first is definately possible, i cant speak of Sid.
EDIT : I am talking about 80% water Archipelego
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