Standard 20k Demigod

[Pacioli]

Once a city hits size 7, do NOT raise the luxury slider to keep it happy. Use a scientist...

I have been meaning to ask. What is the significance of city size 7?

Pre-turn: 003, 004, 005 and 012 are about to grow. Writing down when cities are about to grow helps remind me to check on them next turn.

1-350 Science to 40% for +1gpt with 13g in the bank. Education in 7. New citizen in 003 becomes a scientist for 4 happy, 1 content and 4 unhappy laborers. Reassign 004 citizen from coast to grassland. New citizen in 005 becomes a scientist for 3 happy and 3 unhappy laborers. New 012 citizen is assigned to plains. Hit the F1 key. We now have 0gpt with Education in 6. Reassign Nagoya citizen from grassland (2f2g) to grassland dyes (2f4g). Hit the F1 key. We still have 0gpt. Start irrigating tiles near 014 for growth. Move military units towards 001.

2-360 002 & 007 marketplace-cathedral. We now have +5gpt with 13g in the bank. Education in 5. 007, 009 and 010 are about to grow. CA2 Alerts states that Yokohama (-2) is running a deficit. We must have got Yokohama during the peace negotiations.

A question about the future. We will be expanding our empire? We will ever land our forces on foreign soil? In this game, I would say the answer to both questions would be no but I’ve been wrong about quite a few of things already.

3-370 Review citizen assignments of 007, 009 and 010. No changes made. Loan out 18g from the Aztecs. Loan out 54g from the Zulu. Science to 50% for -27gpt with 90g in the bank. Education in 3. Continue irrigating near 010. 010 does not have an aqueduct yet but it does have 4 hills nearby to keep production going in the short term. Nagasaki is about to grow.

4-380 We complete the Heroic Epic. Start on Sistine Chapel. 006 marketplace-cathedral. 014 aqueduct-cathedral. No changes made to Nagasaki’s citizen assignments. Loan out 18g from the Aztecs. Science to 50% for -28gpt with 81g in the bank. Education in 2. 002, 003 and 014 are about to grow. 001 currently produces 29spt with 0 in the production bin.

5-390 003 cathedral-Forbidden Palace. Swap out scientist of 003 for 7 happy & 4 unhappy citizens. I wanted to swap tiles away from other cities to 003 but if I understand your 310 notes correctly we have to wait until next turn to do that. Correct? Oops, I inadvertently stopped a worker on the mountain near 008. Loan out 18g from the Zulu. With science still at 50% we have -29gpt with 71g in the bank. Education in 1.

I considered changing the build order of the two cities currently building courthouses to cathedrals. We can always start up courthouses again. I’ll leave it up to you to decide what is best.

A university costs 200 shields to build. Before the end of the next turn, there should be 58 shields in 001’s production bin. If my math is correct, we should need the army (100 shields) and 6 Numidian or trebuchets (42 shields) to complete the university. Please note the 3/3 Numidians. I moved most of our military to 001 just in case I’m wrong. To end the turn, you will have to use the ellipse button.

 

[Spoonwood]

I have been meaning to ask. What is the significance of city size 7?

We have better unit (this includes workers) support in a Republic.

We will be expanding our empire? We will ever land our forces on foreign soil? In this game, I would say the answer to both questions would be no but I’ve been wrong about quite a few of things already.

No. I don't see any point to that in this game.

Swap out scientist of 003 for 7 happy & 4 unhappy citizens. I wanted to swap tiles away from other cities to 003 but if I understand your 310 notes correctly we have to wait until next turn to do that. Correct?

No. Don't swap tiles away from 003 until swapping tiles won't change the finish time of the Forbidden Palace. If in any sort of doubt about this, don't swap tiles away from 003 until it finishes the Forbidden Palace. At this point, I think it best to get the Forbidden Palace up as fast as possible. That alone will improve commerce and thus research. On top of this, it'll help lots of cities get improvements in, which will further improve commerce and thus research.

A university costs 200 shields to build. Before the end of the next turn, there should be 58 shields in 001’s production bin. If my math is correct, we should need the army (100 shields) and 6 Numidian or trebuchets (42 shields) to complete the university. Please note the 3/3 Numidians. I moved most of our military to 001 just in case I’m wrong.

If you ask me, better to overdo this than to underdo it, so nice job here!

 

[Spoonwood]

Pre-turn Cycle through cities and reassign some citizens to entertainers and scientists since the temples will disappear next turn. And some other tiles. Move science slider around to check things haven't changed. Click the ellipse in the lower right corner of the screen.

1-400 Learn Education and use "What's the Big Picture" to swap to the university in 001. Disband the army and units as planned to get the university finished in 1 turn, leaving 4 veteran archers and 4 trebbies in the capital. 001 university-Sistine Chapel. 013 harbor-aqueduct. Zulu start Leo's. No one else has Invention. Start research on Astronomy. We could use luxuries, and we'll need at least one more wonder before we can get to Shake's, I think. Sci. at 50%, -9 gpt. Workers mostly forest in spots I hope we haven't used before. We now only pay 10 gpt in unit support.

2-410 005 courthouse-temple. 009 courthouse-temple.

3-420 Yokohama worker-temple. Mongols now have Invention.

4-430 015 library-aqueduct. Mongols start Leo's. Swap tiles out in 003 (which I should have done last turn), and now realize I should have sent workers earlier to forest squares around it. Oh well. Borrow 18 gold from both Mongols and Zulu. Start moving workers to 003 area.

5-440 Loan out more money and raise science to 70%.

 

[Pacioli]

I got the save and had a chance to look at it. What is your preferred tech line in the near future i.e. next 50 turns? After we learn Astronomy, I would start on Music Theory. As you noted, both the Zulu and Mongols have Invention. Leonardo's Workshop produces only 2cpt so I'm not sure it would a good plan to trade for it. We'll need Invention sooner or later but I believe it would be best to pursue the top half of the tech first. The tech line I would pursue would look like this: Astronomy, Music Theory, Banking, Printing Press, Democracy, Free Artistry... Am I on the right track? I'll play and post later this afternoon.

 

[Pacioli]

1-450 The Mongols request an audience. They offer Invention for Theology. No thanks as we are 16 turns away from completing the Sistine Chapel. Loan out 36g from both the Japanese and the Zulu. Loan out 18g from the Mongols. Science at 70% for -62gpt with 152g in the bank. 010’s food box is full and it can’t grow until we build an aqueduct. Reassign 3 of 010’s citizens to the hills nearby to complete the cathedral in 14 turns vs. 30 turns. Yokohama has no military units and a solitary Mongol galley moved to Yokohama’s 4 spot. Our loans with the Mongols should keep Yokohama safe for now.

2-460 011 grows to six citizens. One of 011’s citizens becomes a scientist for 2 happy, 1 content and 2 unhappy laborers. Loan out 18g from the Aztecs and 36g from the Zulus. Science at 70% for -65gpt with 144g in the bank. Astronomy in 3. Offer dyes to the Japanese but they refuse to offer anything in return. The Mongol galley near Yokohama moves away. Move workers around to forest and irrigate.

3-470 We now have horses. The Aztecs are building Leonardo’s Workshop. The Aztecs, Japanese, Zulus and Mongols all know Invention. Loan out 18g from both the Aztecs and the Mongols. Science at 70% for -67gpt with 115g in the bank. Astronomy in 2.

4-480 The Japanese are building Leonardo’s Workshop. Loan out 18g from the Aztecs, the Zulu and the Mongols. Science at 70% for -70gpt with 102g in the bank. Astronomy in 1. Forbidden Place in 3. Sistine Chapel in 13.

5-490 Astronomy-Music Theory. One of 013’s citizens becomes a scientist for 2 happy and 2 unhappy laborers. We now can trade with everybody. More loans. Science at 70% for -64gpt with 68g in the bank??? That’s too close for my taste. Science at 60% for -36gpt. Music Theory in 7. Looks like we are running out of useful tasks for our workers so I started moving some of them to 001.

 

[del62]

How much culture and culture per turn do you now have?

 

[Pacioli]

How much culture and culture per turn do you now have?

Hi del62,

Please note that Spoonwood is providing me a lot of training in this succession game. I could count the number of 20k games I'd played before this game on one or two hands. I'm definitely slowing him down.

Per CAII: Culture per turn 65, Total Culture 3,516, Estimated Win 1812.

 

[Spoonwood]

3516 accumulated culture. 65 culture per turn.

Pre-turn Switch research to Printing Press. Hit F2 (note the tech we just learned). Change a bunch of builds to markets. Put luxuries to 0. Check all AIs. Japanese has no luxuries. The Zulu have extra incense but no dyes. The Mongols have extra Wines and Ivory, but no horses. Same as the Aztecs. Trade Shaka Dyes for Incense, 2 gpt, and 4 gold. Trade Aztecs our only horse supply and 16 gpt for Furs, Silks, and 8 gold. Trade Mongols 33 gpt for Wines, Ivory, and 13 gold. Cycling through cities 007 convinces me that we'll really only need markets now (I didn't expect us to get this many luxuries, I had the wrong plan with cathedrals before as I now realize). Swap some builds from cathedrals to libraries, even though that wastes shields. All scientists and entertainers banished to the fields, save one scientist now needed in 002. Science at 70%, 30% taxes, Printing Press due in 5 turns, with -23 gpt.

1-500 002 library-harbor. 004 market-library. 007 library-university. Mine spots near 004 so we can put in infrastructure faster.

2-510 003 Forbidden Palace-worker. 017 harbor-aqueduct. More loans. Now realize we have enough money to finish PP earlier, so science goes up to 90%, -90 gpt, 224 in the bank, with PP due in 2 turns. Move workers towards 014, which I should have done before. From now on (since we have no unit support to pay, and very little even with a few more workers for a while), irrigate brown and mine green until it hits size 12. When it hits sizes 12 either put out some more workers (for pollution cleaning of 001), or mine/forest squares for maximum shield production with no food loss.

3-520 Shaka demands Theology. No thanks. Zulu DoW us. They capture Yokohama. Oh well, there goes our trading reputation, and our supply of furs and silks. 003 worker-worker. 005 riots. As does 007, 009, and 014. 010 aqueduct-market. Mongols complete Sun Tzu's Art of War. Ring up Aztecs. Trade them Dyes and 14 gpt for Furs, Silks, and 4 gold. Japan still takes 18 gold for 1 gpt? Alright, I do that. Science at 80%, PP due in 1 turn. 003 swaps to an archer. Move two archers to the 2 spot from 014.

4-530 Learn PP start on Banking. 002 harbor-archer. 003 archer-archer. Nagoya library-courthouse. Nagasaki library-marketplace. Aztecs, Japanese, and Zulu all cascade to Leo's. Science at 90%, -75 gpt, 164 in the bank, Banking due in 5 turns. Disband worker near Yokohama (should have done this last turn).

5-540 003 archer-archer. 008 marketplace-university. Aztecs complete Leo's and Japanese cascade OR start the Sistine Chapel. Hit F7 to check on things. Fortunately, the Japanese have started on Sistine in Kyoto. No one else has a Leo's build or Sistine build going on. So, I build an embassy with the Japanese which immediately reveals their capital's... Kyoto's... status for 46 gold. Drat... I anagramed Tokyo into Kyoto! I even checked it twice, because I anticipated that I might make that mistake. Trade Aztecs Theology for 2 gold and Invention. Trade Mongols Theology and 12 gpt for Gunpowder. Not enough gold around to investigate Tokyo. Wait... sell barracks in 007 for 10 gold. Sell barracks in 002 for another 10 gold. Swap build there from longbow to a university. Investigate Tokyo for 71 gold. No growth in the city with the Sistine Chapel reading 13 turns, with no food in the box. AFAIK, we now officially have a lock on it... so no need to swap to Cope's (I investigated Tokyo, in case they would beat us to the Sistine Chapel). Science at 60%, Banking due in 6 turns, +25 gpt with 2 in the bank.

I guess we can clear the Zulu out once we get a few units out. BUT, watch out for yellow galleys coming near to the capital (we have one heading there right now). We need to make sure we have enough units to kill any units immediately upon landing.

Banking-Democracy-Free Artistry. Sistine Chapel-Cope's (MAYBE as a prebuild on Shake's, we shall see).

 

[DWetzel]

"So, I build an embassy with the Japanese which immediately reveals their capital's... Kyoto's... status for 46 gold. Drat... I anagramed Tokyo into Kyoto!"



(I'm laughing WITH you, not at you. I'm also a big fan of the Hittites' first couple of cities.)

 

[Spoonwood]

Hi del62,

Please note that Spoonwood is providing me a lot of training in this succession game. I could count the number of 20k games I'd played before this game on one or two hands. I'm definitely slowing him down.

Per CAII: Culture per turn 65, Total Culture 3,516, Estimated Win 1812.

We still have the big middle age cultural wonders of the Sistine Chapel, Shake's, Cope's, Newton's, and hopefully Bach's also. An estimate like that (AFAIK) assumes no future cultural builds. It technically works fine as an overestimate, but I'd generally advise not trying to estimate finish date quite this early. For a better estimate, I'd say we add 20 culture per turn as a lower estimate and 30 culture per turn as an upper estimate to our current cpt, since we'll have some buildings double, and we'll get most if not all of those big culture wonders and other cultural wonders also. That'll give us a number in [85, 95] cpt as our average cpt (both of those may come out too low). We have 71 turns until 1250, so by 1250 we'll have a number in [9551, 10,261] for our total culture. May as well make that a number in [100, 110] for our average cpt from 1250 on (both estimates here may come out as too low actually). So, we have between 93 and 105 turns after 1250 to finish. That puts us between 1715, and 1775 as our finish date. I really think it lies between 1600 and 1700, at this point, but we shall see.

 

[Pacioli]

1-550 014 market-library. The Aztecs and Zulu are building Knights Templar. The Zulu are building Sistine Chapel. We leave science at 60% for +28gpt with 26g in the bank to build our treasury for this turn. Banking in 5.

2-560 003 longbow-longbow. 006 library-harbor. 009 market-library. The Aztecs and Mongols are building Sistine Chapel. Loan out 18g from Japan. Science to 70% for -14gpt with 72g in the bank. Banking in 3. Workers start moving to near 001 as most of the brown is irrigated and the green is mined.

3-570 018 harbor-aqueduct. The Zulu galley lands a 3/3 archer by 001. 2 trebuchets ping the archer to 1/3. Our 4/4 longbow kills the archer taking 1 point of damage but promotes to elite 4/5. Science to 60% for +25gpt with 58g in the bank. Banking in 2. A second Zulu galley comes into view off the coast of Nagoya.

4-580 003 longbow-longbow. 005 market-library. A third Zulu galley comes into view off the coast of Nagoya. I had moved workers to Nagoya to mine the green but changed my mind as this would hamper growth too much. Science needs to stay at 60% for Banking in 1. Move 4/4 archer to Isipezi’s 4 spot and see a 4/4 Impi. I prefer to have a few more longbows before we attack Isipezi.

5-590 Banking-Democracy. We lost our supply of ivory and silks. I’m not sure what happened!? Luxes to 20% and one citizen in 012 becomes a scientist. We offer dyes to Japan but Tokugawa offer only 17g in return. We decline. Loan out 36g from the Aztecs. Science to 70% for -48gpt with 146g in the bank. Democracy in 8. Sistine Chapel in 2.

 

[Spoonwood]

We might have lost the trade route.

Sorry, I hit ctrl+R and accidently lost my turn-log.

5-640 The Zulu have Chemistry and Education, while the Mongols also have Education. I don't like trading for Chemistry yet, but once a second tribe gets it I'd trade Banking for it. If we can finish Shake's before the AIs get Astronomy we go Shake's-Cope's. If not, and it does seem close we go Cope's-Shake's. 003 probably should train workers until it gets down to size 7 now and then grow until size 8. At town at size 8 can train a worker. Others infrastructure.

 

[Pacioli]

I had a chance to look at the 640 AD.sav. I see we will learn Democracy next turn. We want to remain a Republic, correct?

 

[Spoonwood]

Yes. There really doesn't exist much reason to revolt to Democracy when playing for as fast a VC as possible no matter what VC you play for... unless you play as religious MAYBE.

 

[Pacioli]

Thanks for the confirmation. I hope to complete the next set late tomorrow.

 

[Pacioli]

1-650 Democracy-Free Artistry. 003 worker-worker. The Mongols are building Knights Templar. Science stays at 90% for Free Artistry in 4. Loan out 54g and 36g from the Zulu and Mongols respectively.

2-660 003 worker-worker. The Zulu have completed Knights Templar in Zimbabwe. Science stays at 90% for Free Artistry in 3. Loan out 36g and 54g from the Aztecs and Zulu respectively.

3-670 003 worker-worker. 007 university-temple. Loan out 36g and 54g from the Aztecs and Zulu respectively. The Aztecs and Mongols learn Chemistry. Sell Banking to everyone and receive: Chemistry, Chivalry, 42gpt and 17g from the Aztecs; Horses and 27gpt from the Zulu; 7gpt from the Mongols; and 9g from the Japanese. Cash rush the aqueduct in 013 for 224g as the food box is full and 013 is wasting food.

4-680 003 worker-worker. 013 aqueduct-library. 015 aqueduct-university. Science to 80% for Free Artistry in 1. Loan out 36g from the Zulu for +109gpt with 336g in the bank.

I considered cash rushing the aqueduct in 016 but choose not to since it need 8 turns to fill the food box i.e. it is not wasting food. I believe we can use the cash flow to continue our short-term tech researching pace and build a cash reserve in case we lose our trade route again. What are your thoughts? We could also cash rush the universities to improve our long-term tech pace. Cash rushing improvements in Nagoya may also be a good idea. I’m not sure what your preference would be.

What should we do with the Japanese worker? One slave by itself seems cumbersome. Would you add this slave to a city for population, disband it in a city for shields or just keep it working?

5-690 Free Artistry-Music Theory. 003 worker-worker. Science to 70% for Music Theory in 4. Loan out 36g and 18g from the Zulu and the Mongols respectively. Change the build in 001 from Cope’s to Shake’s. No one else knows Astronomy or has any wonders under construction. I left 2 workers near Nagoya in case you want to make changes to the tiles near-term.

 

[Spoonwood]

I wouldn't cash-rush, at least not now. We don't want to keep loaning out money forever. On top of that, we might want to cash rush for Wall Street and Battlefield Medicine later. We also want to cash-rush a factory (if someone gets extra iron for us) and perhaps coal. Don't worry about 1 slave by itself. Don't add it to a city, that creates a potential flip problem. Just keep it working.

We want to go to Theory of Gravity first. Check the shield to culture ratio for Newton's vs. Bach's. We can leisurely come back to Bach's later.

 

[Spoonwood]

Pre-turn wake all workers on mountain. Move slave around, and all other workers move into 001. Change 007 from a temple to a bank. We don't need a temple there with our luxury slider situation. We do want banks for stock exchanges. Set research to 100%, Physics due in 5 turns. Rearrange tiles so 001 has 29 spt instead of 28, dropping Shake's by a turn.

1-700 003 worker-worker. 005 library-worker. Nagasaki market-university.

2-710 003 worker-market. Zulus have Metallurgy. No one else does. Trade them Democracy for Metallurgy, 101 gold, and 17 gpt.

3-720 008 university-worker. 005 worker-worker. Drop Science to 60%. Physics still due in 2 turns.

4-730 002 worker-bank. 010 library-university. Lower science to 50%.

5-740 Physics in. Start on ToG at maximum. 005 worker-worker. Wake workers in 001 to chop forest and mine spot. No one has Astronomy yet. Hopefully no one will get it within 3 turns.

Once Shake's finishes, pick up all tiles getting used by other cities near 001. We want 001 to use ALL the tiles it can. Effectively this means that 003 has to transfer off a grassland, as does 007 and/or 014. We don't need to use coastal tiles in 001 yet. So, we'll need to add in 4 workers, 3 for grassland squares, and one for the lake. Make sure it has our desired configuration before we move on. We might actually have a few too many workers in 001, but that's better than too few.

Shake's-Cope's. We probably want to research ToG, and then Magnetism. We want to get to Industralization as soon as we can, while still not running out of builds. We won't finish Cope's before we finish Magnetism. So, Magnetism after ToG.

 

[Pacioli]

Thanks Spoonwood for the information. Let me know when when it is time to stop loaning out money.

 

[Spoonwood]

We make money at 100% research. So, we don't need to do it at all anymore. In short, the time is now (that's a tautology, but I digress).