Could you explain what you mean by immoral fiction, please?
Star TREK or WARS?
- Thread starter valamas
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Could you explain what you mean by immoral fiction, please?
the mormegil
Emperor
How are the matrix and star wars more immoral than stargate or any othe sci-fi?
wtiberon
One man who stands alone
I like both franchises. Although I went through phases with Star Trek where I liked it, didn't like, then liked it again. Definitely the first Three Movies were the Golden Age for both these franchises. TNG revitalized my interest in Star Trek and enjoyed the series very much. The plots were always interesting and thought provoking and remained loyal to the ideals of Gene Roddenbury. Deep Space Nine was horrible and completely unwatchable. Star Trek: Voyager was a return to the original series formula and was actually a pretty good series. Star Trek: Enterprise was decent but I think along with everyone else I was all Star Treked out. Had they waited a few more years after Voyager it may have done well.
The first three Star Wars was a hybrid of fantasy and sci-fi. It was not only the three of the best sci-fi movies ever made but the three of the best movies period. I refused to watch the revised editions of the trilogy after witnessing the butchering he did with the first one. The Pre-quels are decent flicks but lack the magic of the first three. However I often wonder if Star Wars was released for the first time in this day and age if it would have been such a phenomenon as it was in the 70s.
The first three Star Wars was a hybrid of fantasy and sci-fi. It was not only the three of the best sci-fi movies ever made but the three of the best movies period. I refused to watch the revised editions of the trilogy after witnessing the butchering he did with the first one. The Pre-quels are decent flicks but lack the magic of the first three. However I often wonder if Star Wars was released for the first time in this day and age if it would have been such a phenomenon as it was in the 70s.
JonathanValjean
Porschephile
I'm more of a Star Wars fan, however, I'm not a huge fan of either.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
- Joined
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He isnt done buggering Joseph Campbells corpse yet, he'll get to Roddenberry later.
Gladi
The ignored thread killer
Bright Day
Only film and tv production? Hmm, Star Wars, by very narrow victory. It is over qucker so you do not get annoyed by fallacies of its logic, unlike Star Trek.
Whole franchise- STAR WARS!! Go Thrawn go! Thrawn for emperor!!
May all your days be bright.
Only film and tv production? Hmm, Star Wars, by very narrow victory. It is over qucker so you do not get annoyed by fallacies of its logic, unlike Star Trek.
Whole franchise- STAR WARS!! Go Thrawn go! Thrawn for emperor!!
May all your days be bright.
GrandAdmiral
Deity
First of all Star Wars is sci-fi fantasy. I will have to vote for Star Wars. The orignal trilogy was great, the prequals haven't been that great but the New Jedi Order expanded universe novels are much better. I used to be a big fan of the Next Generation but Star Trek just doesn't appeal to me in many areas. The ships and technology are cool but the tights and the ground forces are downright cheesy. How is it all of the sudden everyone in the universe wears tights? When it comes to characters and anything off ship such as vehicles troops etc, Star Wars has them beat. Star Trek also does a bad job of creating different worlds and settings. I can just visualise a wall falling down and the set of Dawson's Creek appearing on the other side.
RegentMan
Deity
I'm a Star Wars fan; can't stand Star Trek.
SuperBeaverInc.
Groucho
Star Wars. I hate Star Trek
Kubz
Dancer of dances
I am a complete Star Wars fanboy. I love the newer ones, to me I had the same feelings I had when I was a little kid watching Empire Strikes Back as I do watching Attack of the Clones and so on. Star Trek I find extremely boring.
I like the technology more in Star Wars. It has a more used feel to it, unlike the sterile tech of most sci-fi movies. Lightsabers, starfighters, clone troopers, battle droids, walkers, the death star; that is cool technology.
The environments, aliens, and robots in Star Wars are so much cooler than Star Trek. Jar Jar may be annoying but Jabba the Hutt, Chewbacca, Watto, Geonosians, Jawas, even Ewoks are so much more creative than a guy with a bumpy forhead or pointy ears.
The villains in Star Wars are the best in any movie- Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Grand Moff Tarkin, Count Dooku.
I'm really looking forward to the next movie next year. I can't wait to see Anakin's fall from grace, The epic duel where Anakin is defeated by Obi-wan and horribly burned so he has to wear his suit. I can't wait to see the Emperor rise to power as his complicated schemes come to fruition. I will be saddend when Luke and Leia are born, Padme dies and the twins are hidden from their father. God help me I love these movies.
I like the technology more in Star Wars. It has a more used feel to it, unlike the sterile tech of most sci-fi movies. Lightsabers, starfighters, clone troopers, battle droids, walkers, the death star; that is cool technology.
The environments, aliens, and robots in Star Wars are so much cooler than Star Trek. Jar Jar may be annoying but Jabba the Hutt, Chewbacca, Watto, Geonosians, Jawas, even Ewoks are so much more creative than a guy with a bumpy forhead or pointy ears.
The villains in Star Wars are the best in any movie- Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Grand Moff Tarkin, Count Dooku.
I'm really looking forward to the next movie next year. I can't wait to see Anakin's fall from grace, The epic duel where Anakin is defeated by Obi-wan and horribly burned so he has to wear his suit. I can't wait to see the Emperor rise to power as his complicated schemes come to fruition. I will be saddend when Luke and Leia are born, Padme dies and the twins are hidden from their father. God help me I love these movies.
croxis
Chat room op
Throw in another for Babylon 5
(dare I say it, B5 beating star trek and its not even on the poll!)
(dare I say it, B5 beating star trek and its not even on the poll!)
Dark Ascendant
Darkness Ascending...
Good points, no one in the ST universe knows a thing about ground combat.
First there are the uniforms. Doesn't matter what species they are from: Federation, Klingon, Romulan, etc. Hello! Camoulflage! Hello! Body armor!
Second, there's the fact that they beam down infantry, but nothing else. What if the mothership leaves or retreats, or is destroyed? There goes the only ride off the planet, close air support, orbital bombartment, air superiority.
Third there's the equipment. In all the ground combat scenes on DS9, they have a phaser and a tricorder. With replicators, you'd think the Federation would build a tank with shields or a ground based missile system that could hit something on the other side of the planet. Something that's better than a highly visible, line-of-sight energy beam.
I understand that ST is about humans moving outwards, but do they have to rely on their precious starships for everything?
SolarKnight
Guardian of the Balance
The only immoral thing i know about star wars is as i was told by a friend that it was a rip - off of an old anime cartoon called lensman, where instead if using the force they used kenses in their arm, i saw about 10 minutes of it and it was strikingly similar.
(whether it is true or not i don't know, but this was from a star wars fan who also loved anime).
(whether it is true or not i don't know, but this was from a star wars fan who also loved anime).
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Oh man, I grew up on Star Trek reruns in the 70s, and I love all the off-shoot series as well. I particularly enjoy Pocket Books' novels on all of them. I even went to a few conventions when I was a kid.
I introduced my 5 y/o to Start Trek. He refers to it as Daddy's Power Rangers. Well, I guess he's right.
I voted for both becasue he and I are into playing SWGB togther, which has spurned great interest on his part for Star Wars. Tons of fun for me to share all this with him. I have a feeling the "facts of life" session isn't going to be the same experience.
I introduced my 5 y/o to Start Trek. He refers to it as Daddy's Power Rangers. Well, I guess he's right.
I voted for both becasue he and I are into playing SWGB togther, which has spurned great interest on his part for Star Wars. Tons of fun for me to share all this with him. I have a feeling the "facts of life" session isn't going to be the same experience.
FearlessLeader2
Fundamentalist Loon
Villany victorious. Star Wars IV-VI showed the progression of Darth Vader from villainous mass-murderer to all-is-forgiven being of light. Star Wars I and II showed the steady progression of Anakin Skywalker aka Darth Vader, from innocent child to corrupt mass-murderer.
Matrix gives us Neo, a god-like being of omnipotent capability who could easily bypass the Agents, but who instead chooses to mass-murder the possessed humans they are wearing like suits to inconvienence them into possessing another innocent human for him to kill.
Way to go Warchowskis! Undermine the social contract that allows you to not be tossed in the cannibal stewpot or beaten and robbed by anyone stronger than you who wants what you possess.
People who live in a culture that nurtures and protects them have an implied moral obligation to NOT undermine it by writing stories that glorify defying its precepts and casting it aside in favor of might makes right.
Regarding Star Wars, the overall progression is that Anakin Skywalker (essentially) repents in the end, and as a result joins Yoda and Obi-Wan on the light side of the force. I fail to see how that is villainy-victorious. Or are you taking the order as 4-5-6-1-2-3 rather than 1 through 6?
the mormegil
Emperor
I agree with IglooDude.
FearlessLeader2
Fundamentalist Loon
No matter how you 'take' it, Anakin does vile deeds and is rewarded with his culture's version of heaven.
This fictional contstruct blurs the line between good and evil so far that a person who does evil is not even known by their 'good' name. They become another entity, and only that entity is blamed for bad deeds.
Basically, Anakin is not to blame for anything. In fact, Anakin can't be blamed for anything 'he' did, because it was all that nasty Vader guy, not him.
Moral of the SW saga?: Do all the bad stuff you want, just called yourself Darth something while you do it. Later you can repent and go back to your regular name and everyone will think you're a great guy again. Actions need no consequences.
This fictional contstruct blurs the line between good and evil so far that a person who does evil is not even known by their 'good' name. They become another entity, and only that entity is blamed for bad deeds.
Basically, Anakin is not to blame for anything. In fact, Anakin can't be blamed for anything 'he' did, because it was all that nasty Vader guy, not him.
Moral of the SW saga?: Do all the bad stuff you want, just called yourself Darth something while you do it. Later you can repent and go back to your regular name and everyone will think you're a great guy again. Actions need no consequences.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
I can honestly say that no one is going to be the dark lord of the sith anytime soon. No one thinks they can be evil and then enter paradise. People follow religion (or nothing) for paradise not sci-fi and fantasy movies.
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