Star Trek unit preview thread

[sum_aar_jam]

I know that this discussion was a few weeks old but I would like to say a few things about whose stronger militarily in Star Trek. First (1) the Borg. They can adapt to anything and has the knowledge of billions upon billions of drones. Even if they engage the Dominion and their phased polaron beams I'm sure one Drone will have the answer to adapt. Second (2) the Dominion. They are technologically advanced, and can build ships extremely fast. Keep in mind that although the Dominion lost the Dominion War, they did have thousands of ships in the Gamma Quadrant (1500 in the first wave alone). The Jem'Hadar are able to fight in three days once they are cloned. Jem'Hadar are more willing to die than Klingons (they have no sense of honor and will die for anything), they can shroud and tricorders cant pick them up. Jem'Hadar are superior in strength, brutal, and can be easily replaced. Changelings can also infiltrate and gain military knowledge and spread terror. Third (3) the Federation. They have the best all round ships that are superior in defense and can take one heck of a beating. Weapons systems are also formadible on designs like the Soverign, Defiant, and Promethesus classes. Replication technology means that the Federation can replace parts, equipment, food, and anything else needed on the battlefield. Knowledge is also a fundemental factor for the federation as they have hundreds of species living with the same goals and contributing to the whole. Fourth (4) Klingons due to their superior disruptor technolgy and manueverable starships. The Klingons sense of honor and proud traditions make them excellent soldiers and biologically they can fight a Jem'Hadar toe to toe in combat. Fifth (5) Romulans. Their plasma torpedoes make them feared in combat. Also new designs in ships such as the Reman Scimitar (I know its Reman, but it was built with help from the Romulan Military), which is possible the strongest ship in the Alpha Quadrant. Reman foot soldiers are feared thorughout the Quadrant as shock troops and did remarkable well in the Dominion War. Sixth (6) is the Cardassians. They are not the strongest due to their power being drained over the course of many decades. They had to evacuate Bajor, Sign a treaty with the Federation, have trouble keeping order in the DMZ with the Marquis, be overthrown by a civilian government, get slaughtered by the Klingons, and lose billions of people in the Dominion War. The Cardassian power was waining before DS9. The Obsedian Order is considered the finest spy network in the Alpah Quadrant surpassing the Tal Shair. Seventh (7) Breen because although they did have the energy dampening weapon thier frigates were easily destoryed by weapons fire (a spread of quantum torpedoes destoryed a single vessel).

Just my thougts....Sorry if I bumped this post

 

[Flamand]

Sounds like a good list, but I would switch no. 3 and 4. Just feels correcter...

 

[Stormrage]

So you are saying the Klingons are stronger than the Federation? Have you seen this: http://dumbworf.ytmnd.com/

 

[Corvex]

I would also rank the Romulans as being tougher than the Klingons, at least in the Post-Dominion War Era. Note Sloan's dialogue in Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, particularly when he says that "the Klingons won't pose a threat to anyone for at least ten years" and that the Romulans will be the primary adversaries of the Federation following the end of the war (the events of Nemesis would seem to suggest that this prophecy was reasonably accurate).
All things considered, though, I would say that the Federation, Klingons and Romulans are about equal in power (with the Federation slightly on top). At the very least, no one empire is strong enough to defeat the others.

 

[Flamand]

@Stormrage:

 

[Stormrage]

Well, you know, this thread was getting as serious as a Vulcan`s bedroom..

Glad you liked it!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

In the second Starfleet Command game(Empires at War) they had another power in the Gamma Quadrant(which were much closer to the Alpha Quadrant than the Dominion), called the "Interstellar Concordium". The Organians, fed up with all the wars going on between the different powers in the known galaxy, went and got the Interstellar Concordium and their massive "Pacification Command" fleet.

Basically, they are an species diverse empire, like the Federation, who basically have the slogan "Make peace or die".

I think they'd be an interesting addition to the mod. They have some interesting weapons too.

 

[Mentat]

Hmm, interesting points brought up by all of you, especially liked Stormrage's commetn though ^^.

@ sum_aar_jam: Yeah, one could make a list just like you did, but I'd rather go with Corvex thoughts that equals the three major powers to some degree.
In fact, no one knows what kind of outcome a full scale war between any two of the three would mean to the quadrant. I guess in most cases the third party would take advantage of the weakness in both empires after a while and mature to the alpha-beta quadrant superpower. Nevertheless, pure speculation.

If I remember correctly I made my list only regarding the military power of those empires post Dominion war. One hardly can take into account what kind of non military assets/aspects could affect any kind of conflict. Thus I would stick with the figures I already posted. Regarding Sloans estimation about threats for the Federation, I can't see any relation between seeing a threat and actual military power. I am sure he ratehr refered to the superior Romulan secret service activities then their military capabilities. Though I am personally all with the Romulans, I would still estimate their military power a little behind Klingons and Federation. To be more accurate, their technology is a little behind the Federation, though not much, since the Tal'Shiar surely accumulates technology faster then any empire can do research. And even if the Romulans have a little more advanced ships then the Klingons, the Klingon fleet is considerably larger then the Romulan one, even larger then the Federation fleet. So Federation and Klingons are for sure on par, Romulans close behind.

And yes, one more comment on the Breen, and why I have listed them stronger then the Cardassians. Well to start with, Cardassia has been utterly crushed by various forces during the Dominion war events. This Civilization lies in ruins(A little like most post WWII countries). The Breen took much less of a punch, and remain a mystery. Fact is that the Breen dominate a significantly larger part of the quadrant then the Cardassians ever did, a fraction of space that is indeed not much smaller then the Romulan empire. This does need some military power to keep control, especially when we regard the kind of treatment the Breen have towards subjugated races. They remind me of pre-TNG Klingons in that way.

 

[Corvex]

There are a few intangibles to consider when it comes to Romulans and the Klingons. The Klingon rulership is factionalized between different great houses who seem to fight amongst one another rather frequently, even when there is no civil war (some of these houses, such as the Duras, are even allied with the Romulans). Warships (it has been stated on various occasions) are loyal to their houses, and not the central government.
Romulus is obviously not without its own political machinations, but power in the Star Empire is esentially centralized in the person of the Praetor, who is supreme commander of all Romulan (and Reman) ships and forces. This gives them an edge militarily, even if their fleet is not, in theory, as powerful as that of the Klingons.
(The Federation leads them both, however, as they have both a centralized command structure and superior technology-- plus, they don't need to worry about constantly putting down rebellions on their colony worlds).

 

[sum_aar_jam]

The only reason I placed the Federation above the Klingon Empire was that although militarily they are equal, socially and technology the Feds win out. The Klingon Empire doesn't have the industrial base as the Feds do (come on the Federation doesn't have any need for money or a modern economy, everything is replicated). The Federation is so much better at technology. A few shots from the Defiant's pulse phasers wiped out a BOP, while it was able to deflect several disruptors shots from a Vorcha Battle Cruiser (one of the best ships in the Klingon Defense Fleet) even the Defiants shields were down and the disruptors couldn't easily penetrate the Ablative Hull Armor (Way of the Warrior part II). The KLingon Empire is also plagued with corruption with power struggles erupting constantly. It also has a Feudal Government with the military power residing in the Great Houses (think of our medieval times but on a galatic scale and you have the Klingon Empire). The KLingons are also reckless in battle both on land and space. During the Dominion War they lost over two thirds of their fleet in combat (www.ditl.org). This was due mainly by the fact that many klingon captains would choose to fight a losing battle and die an honorable death than retreat and fight another day. (I know Gowron made some poor tactical calls when the Klingon Fleet was holding the front lines against the Breen energy dampening weapon, but that was only for a couple of months and the Dominion was still busy fighting off an internal resistance movement). If you have time go to the website www.ditl.org. It gives a lot of information about the ships and fleets in Star Trek. All the information there is canon and comes directly from the episodes and movies.

 

[Mentat]

@Corvex: (Why not use "Corvus Corax" in your signature, I always thought him to be the king of ravens)
I can not fully agree on your assumptions.
A.) We have little prove about whats going on in foreign empires. I can not remember much internal struggle in the Klingon Empire after the Civil War, besides the actions related to the Dominion-Changelings, which affected all major powers. Rivaling Feudal houses might be considerable troublesome from time to time, but it keeps up the spirits in the Klingon society (even in peaceful times) and the warriors keep their eyes open.
B.) Uprising and Corruption aswell as Civil War threats are likely to burden all empires more or less. I kind of see a growing likeliness with the size of an Empire/Federation, not just with its internal politics.

@sum_aar_jam:
DITL is gorgeous, but not everything stated there is canon. Very little in fact is (just the yellow colored text). Still DITL has the most serious estimations regarding ST, but is far from any "ST reality", which simply does not exist, since the Creators of ST didn't ever really think much about numbers and facts, often ending up with confusing episodes. Regarding losses in the Dominion War, the Federation and the Romulans didn't fare much better then the Klingons, just check it out in DITL. So I do not see any change in balance there. Also one has to be careful with those fleet-strength numbers used by DITL, since they count every now and there "crap" vessel to the fleets, while others miss out completely or are unknown.

Regarding the strength of the Defiant class, I stand somewhat reserved.
a.) Its a superb vessel, though small, built to fight and take heavy damage before being destroyed.
b.) The strength shown in the show, is often considerably above the real capabilties of the craft, an exaggeration one can often see with ST hero ships (remember any enterprise ship ever in service). This could be, and is often related to the extraordinary personal on those ships, but on the other hand its exactly that what makes ST pretty lame to a certain degree. For me the pinnacle of exageration in any way, was the Nemesis movie, which ought to be the most unrealistic ST movie since ST "the voyage home". The story, which once may have had potential, was so dull and the actions taken by the various protagonists and antagonists so far from anything sane, that one rather does not question it seriously, or better not watch it at all.

 

[Stormrage]

Babararacucudada!

 

[Mentat]

Whuuz up Storm?

Wha don't ya watchin' soccer championship like awl doez?



I got go now, already late for the semi finals ^^

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

In the second Starfleet Command game(Empires at War) they had another power in the Gamma Quadrant(which were much closer to the Alpha Quadrant than the Dominion), called the "Interstellar Concordium". The Organians, fed up with all the wars going on between the different powers in the known galaxy, went and got the Interstellar Concordium and their massive "Pacification Command" fleet.

Basically, they are an species diverse empire, like the Federation, who basically have the slogan "Make peace or die".

I think they'd be an interesting addition to the mod. They have some interesting weapons too.

 

[Flamand]

Sounds interesting... Are there any ships available for them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Organians non-corporial energy creatures of nearly limitless powers?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

They are energy beings, but I don't think they have much in the way of powers.

 

[Flamand]

... Collectively, the Organians were able to neutralize Starfleet and the Klingon fleet, wherever they were...

I think they were quite powerful

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think the Organians were pissed off so they got the Interstellar Concordium to spank Starfleet and everyone else...lol

Maybe an alternate way to have the I.C. appear could be that the Concordium stumbles upon the area where most of Star Trek takes place in, and finds it a hotbed of war, and hense they send a fleet bent on pacifiying everyone, for their own good of coarse..

Heres some pictures of some of their ships:

Dreadnought

Heavy Cruiser

Medium Cruiser

Flagship of the I.C. fleets, Inferno Class Battleship

More pictures can be found here Flamand:

http://starfleetcommand3.filefront....ommand_III/Ships/Interstellar_Concordium;2987

 

[Flamand]

Well I was still looking for a civ to keep the Dominion occupied until the discovery of the wormhole. Sounds like this is a good candidate...

 

[volbound1700]

In my list I felt that the Klingons would have bigger fleet then Feds but Feds have more planets, more star systems, and more people because they are made up of many worlds. They are like USA before WW2 in that they don't have a big army but have potential to outbuild many of the powers with their strong economy and the sheer size of their Alliance. Like in our world today (China, Russia, USA) the bigger nations with more people and land dominate. However, I only watch DS9 and I am not a big Trekky.