Straining Israeli-Turkish Relations: Turkey Recalls Ambassador From Israel

[aaminion00]

the Arabs wanted it all

Why shouldn't they have? They had after all lived there for centuries and were watching their lands be taken over and manipulated by foreigners who hadn't set their eyes on the region in some 2 millenia.

 

[Constantine]

Why shouldn't they have? They had after all lived there for centuries and were watching their lands be taken over and manipulated by foreigners who hadn't set their eyes on the region in some 2 millenia.

They were offered more and the best lands, IMO they should have done it, instead they took their chances and got beaten in the 1947 war. And again in 67 and again 73. Isreal has earned the right to exist. The Palenstians could have prevented this but it was there choice.

 

[aaminion00]

Hmm, yes, I agree with you there. I however don't think Israel should have been created in the first place period.

 

[North King]

Israel has somehow earned the right to exist by fighting several succesful wars?

 

[Constantine]

Israel has somehow earned the right to exist by fighting several succesful wars?

Yes, before the 1967 war, no Arab state recoqinzed it, they considered it a series of DMZs part of the truces after the '47 war. After 1967 when Isreal captured the Golan, Gaza, West Bank and the Siani penisula the Arab countries could no longer consider that. Eygpt reconqizes Isreasl cause they gave the Siani back.

Did the US not earn the right to exist by fighting a succesful war with England?

 

[10Seven]

"the current Isreali-Palestianian fighting can not be blamed on the British. They pulled out(smart move) in 1947 and let the UN decide, they partioned Palenstine into two states, the Arabs wanted it all so they fought and lost to Isreal. Tough cookies."

It was your's in the first place, and for thousands of years, but Tough cookies.

 

[aaminion00]

Yes, before the 1967 war, no Arab state recoqinzed it, they considered it a series of DMZs part of the truces after the '47 war. After 1967 when Isreal captured the Golan, Gaza, West Bank and the Siani penisula the Arab countries could no longer consider that. Eygpt reconqizes Isreasl cause they gave the Siani back.

Did the US not earn the right to exist by fighting a succesful war with England?

Hmm, yes they earned recognition from the rest of the Western world, however in the broad sense the U.S. probably shouldn't exist (stay with me here for a second) considering that it's land consists of the rape of a couple of dozen native american tribes all over the place. The difference between the U.S. and Israel however is that the U.S. had justified it's existance 100xfold, whereas Israel has made the world worse and worse from merely being there.

 

[Constantine]

Hmm, yes they earned recognition from the rest of the Western world, however in the broad sense the U.S. probably shouldn't exist (stay with me here for a second) considering that it's land consists of the rape of a couple of dozen native american tribes all over the place. The difference between the U.S. and Israel however is that the U.S. had justified it's existance 100xfold, whereas Israel has made the world worse and worse from merely being there.

How? Isreal is democracy was content to live within the pre 1967 borders. The Syrians, Eygptians and Jordanians were not content, and attacked and lost, if it wasn't for that then Gaza would Eygpitan and the West Bank Jordianian.

 

[North King]

Did the US not earn the right to exist by fighting a succesful war with England?

Somehow, I knew someone would bring that up. The Americans had a reason to fight. They actually had at least as much entitlement to the land as the British, perhaps more, since they lived there (Though I believe the Native Americans had more entitlement to that land).

The Israelis had no entitlement to that land. All this talk about a Jewish homeland, it had been about 2000 years since Jews were the majority in that land. The fact that they lived there longer than the Muslims doesn't give them any entitlement... Neaderthals lived there before we did, so why not set it aside for them? Why not for wildlife since they lived there first? This Jewish homeland idea is historical fantasy.

 

[10Seven]

"Did the US not earn the right to exist by fighting a succesful war with England?"

The USA didn't invade England... No?

 

[Constantine]

"Did the US not earn the right to exist by fighting a succesful war with England?"

The USA didn't invade England... No?

however England invaded the US, which is what happened during the 1947 Isreali-Arab war.

Somehow, I knew someone would bring that up. The Americans had a reason to fight. They actually had at least as much entitlement to the land as the British, perhaps more, since they lived there (Though I believe the Native Americans had more entitlement to that land).

The Israelis had no entitlement to that land. All this talk about a Jewish homeland, it had been about 2000 years since Jews were the majority in that land. The fact that they lived there longer than the Muslims doesn't give them any entitlement... Neaderthals lived there before we did, so why not set it aside for them? Why not for wildlife since they lived there first? This Jewish homeland idea is historical fantasy.

Well before the revolutinon American=British. Isreali earned the right to be a country in the 1947 war, simple. Its there now deal with it.

 

[aaminion00]

How? Isreal is democracy was content to live within the pre 1967 borders. The Syrians, Eygptians and Jordanians were not content, and attacked and lost, if it wasn't for that then Gaza would Eygpitan and the West Bank Jordianian.

The U.S.A. and Americans have invented democracy, aviation, the modern auto-mobile, mass production, electricity, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The world is a much better and advanced place thanks to the existance of the United States in the past 300 years. In contrast, Israel does nothing but provoke conflict, bloodshed, and terrorism. The situation is far worse in the world now than it was before a Jewish state was established.

 

[Constantine]

The U.S.A. and Americans have invented democracy, aviation, the modern auto-mobile, mass production, electricity, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The world is a much better and advanced place thanks to the existance of the United States in the past 300 years. In contrast, Israel does nothing but provoke conflict, bloodshed, and terrorism. The situation is far worse in the world now than it was before a Jewish state was established.

But its not the Jewish state's fault the Arab world uses it as a scapegoat to hide their own massive problems.

And the Americans didn't invent democracy. Athens.

 

[North King]

The Israelis basically conquered that land from the Arabs who in all essences had ruled it for a thousand years virtually un interrupted. All it really represents is the West trying to extend its dominance over Islam. There is no justification in stealing land like that.

 

[aaminion00]

But its not the Jewish state's fault the Arab world uses it as a scapegoat to hide their own massive problems.

And the Americans didn't invent democracy. Athens.

1. Of course it's not, but the Jewish state shouldn't exist period.

2. Oh yes Athens . And who brought it back and gave it a practical purpose revolutionizing the world 2000 years later?

 

[Constantine]

1. Of course it's not, but the Jewish state shouldn't exist period.

2. Oh yes Athens . And who brought it back and gave it a practical purpose revolutionizing the world 2000 years later?

1. Well it does now and it is democractic and deserves our support.

2. lets not get too sidetracked, I'll concede the point.

@North King
Isreal before 1947 war would have been smaller and alot less good land, but the Arabs declared war and lost. Tought ****.

 

[10Seven]

Fact. Israel didn't exist for thousands of years, right.

Middle east was arab, except for some Imperialism going on.

Big punchups in Europe. Lot's of argy around Judaism/racism. And Palestine is fact, ruled by arabs, pretty much for arabs, apart from the longstanding Jewish community, that had pretty much always been there.

Cue, 'mass exodus' and 'jewish export'. Hundreds of thousands Jews into Palestine per week, smuggling arms, and fighting breaks out. Jews are trying to take over.

Long story short, mass uprising, Israel proclaimed.

Arabs annoyed, send forces to help their mate Palestine. Big fights, arabs bloody nose.

And in all of this, how is Israel not like a muslim fundamentalist nation proclaiming itself soverign in the USA?

This was a jewish invasion of Palestine - the Arabs had a bloody nerve to be annoyed and try and stop it.

And now the continuing Palestinian resistance are terrorists for continuing to fight for freedom for Jewish rule.

"Israel earned it - get over it'

Well Arabs arguably earned and were fighting for the Middle East for thousands of years while Jews were bumming around Europe - perhaps on the 'big OE'. If anyone 'earned it', well...

 

[North King]

I accept that it is there. I also think that if it continues to be there much longer, we are going to be having a vicious war on our hands...

 

[Constantine]

@10 Seven

The Jewish settlers didn't just proclaim Isreal, the UN SC paritioned it into countries. The Arabs got more and better land. It was a fair deal under the circumstances. But the Arab countries, Eygpt, SA, Iraq, Jordan etc. invaded Isreal and they fought back and won.

Face it people Isreal exists and won't go away!

 

[10Seven]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure Palestine existed first and as a whole under arab rule subject to England - UN partition came after the insurgency, no?

ISRAELS THERE NOW DEAL WITH IT
Well, though I, at this stage, think it's fair to say that, if anything, Israel is like a massive terrorist cell getting over it and getting on with it is also a fair point.

We could fight and kill each other for ages - it's unlikely to change the fact of Israels's existence. And to change it would likely require a great deal of killing and suffering that no-body but the powerplayers - in Israel and Palestine both - will benefit from.

But I think that Isarel has a lot of concessions to make, after invading - the scene was set - there is no reasonable position to suggest that the Arabs should both like it and lump it.

I think, for one, Israel should withdraw completely from current occupied territory. No excuses, no dealines, no conditions, and including all the jewish settlements - after that appears a good moral ground to say, 'look, we've done this, we want to get along, we think you should have you're own nation, we want ours too'.

Add to this scenario some degree of reparation in order to rebuild a viable Palestinian state - a peace offering in addition to the last, and I think any reasonable person would support.

After that, when, hopefully only if, the attacks continue against Israel, we're then in a position to start calling the attacks terrorism, and defend accordingly.

Until then, it's still occupied terrotory, and I don't see why Palestinians shouldn't fight for freedom from Israeli rule.

My take.