Strategy Discussion and Guides

[AluminumKnight]

Hi cider,

I've been playing with Poland a bit lately, and am having the same experience as you. My latest try I was 16 turns away from Liberalism when someone beat me to it (to be honest, I'm not even sure who it was, it was not anyone I had contact with, and China was dead), but usually yes, it is England.

I had generated a GE, but had nothing for him to do maybe it's a question of generating the correct Great Person to bulb? Is it a scientist we need? I'm at work so I can't check the Pedia right now.

As for Kiew... I found that with the 2 longbowmen there, I've failed to take it with the starting stack, so I don't depend on it. IF Holy Rome hasn't crowded you (usually I see them with Lubeck, which is perfect), you can found Gdansk to use the fish and Wheat W of Krakow, and this city, along with Krakow and Riga (I prefer Talinn actually) can also reach 12. I'll just farm as much grassland as I can just in case of an untimely plague and switch it to cottages/watermills after the goal is met.

Maybe a combination is the key. What if we found Krakow, Gdansk, and Riga/Talinn, and ALSO capture Kiew? How do you usually capture Kiew? Because if I want to found 3 cities, I have to build a settler, meaning no time to build more military without taking a chance Russia (or someone else) will snatch Kiew.

If we have those 4 cities, Talinn, Gdansk, and Krakow can concentrate on reaching pop 12 and science (perhaps Krakow can produce a Great Scientist now), while Kiew can produce military for defense. What do you think?

 

[cider]

Hey AluKnight,

thanks for your opinion. I've started over 4 times now and maybe I can make it this time. The Mongol hordes only spawned 1 round after Mongol start at the borders of Russia and keep them busy up to now (1450AD I believe, I am at work too lol), so they can't invade me. HRE is at war with Turkey, France with England and I can research peacefully. In my first games I was constantly attacked from every side and had to give up, it was too much. HRE and Russia attacked me even in the same turn, talk about historical accuracy lol.
Anyway, I was lucky to take Istanbul with only 1-2 Knights one round after a huge HRE army attacked the city. Now I have sciene again at 100% and even make +56 gold per round Maybe with this lucky turn in history I can make the goal, however I don't like historical inaccuracy so much
I kept a safe of the turn right before I took Istanbul, so I can reload and try it again without taking the city.

As for the start, I have to admit that I rolled a few different games and played only 3-4 rounds to see what kind of starting situation I got: The best possible start is when Russia has Novgorod instead of St. Peterburg (so I can found Riga on the cows and it has not so much cultural pressure like it would have from St. Peterburg, I found it there to also have access to the fish) and even more important: when Kiev only has 1 longbowman left or even is razed, then I whip a settler quickly.

You are right, if it has 2 Longbowmen it is impossible to take it with the starting stack (well the 2 longbowmen I left at my 2 cities.. maybe one should take them too for the attack?). Usually Russia takes it then before I build a huge enough army for it.
So I think you also need a lucky start to complete UHV #2.

I didn't plan for UHV #3 yet, as I just want the triumphal arch in my capitol and not win a historical victory but I think you need 12 cities for 3 cathedrals? if so, I believe you have to go on conquest from the start and finance some of your sciene with the gold from captured cities and maybe 1-2 techs from peace treaties.

 

[AluminumKnight]

It seems like luck is a HUGE factor in the Poland game (as it should be, since you are surrounded on all sides from the beginning). I happened to roll a game last night in which Kiev was barbarian, defended by only 1 horse archer, so I was able to take it easily, as well as founding Talinn and Gdansk.

If Russia founds Novgorod instead of St. Petersburg, Vikings don't found Kalmar or anything south of Kalmar, and Germans don't go E of Lubeck, your setup is pretty good. Even better if someone knocked out a Longbowman from Kiev.

I tried running a couple of scientists in Gdansk just long enough to get a GS and bulbed Paper with him (let's see if this makes a difference), but now it's touch and go for UHV#1 since I lost some growth doing this.

It's funny, I also had a game where Russia and HRE declared war on the same turn and proceeded to wipe the floor with me.

For UHV #3, I wonder what is the best strategy... catch Russia in the crossfire between you and the Mongols and basically take their place? You have room to build enough cities, and it seems much easier than trying to expand in the other directions. HRE and Ottomans seem like MUCH more formidable opponents (unless you can do what you did and opportunistically steal cities in the fight between Ottomans/Byzantium/HRE).

 

[archcapitalist]

Hey AluKnight,

I think you need 12 cities for 3 cathedrals? if so, I believe you have to go on conquest from the start and finance some of your sciene with the gold from captured cities and maybe 1-2 techs from peace treaties.

you just need 4 cities. all need all three christian churches. then you get 3 cathedrals, catholic, protestant and orthodox

 

[cider]

you just need 4 cities. all need all three christian churches. then you get 3 cathedrals, catholic, protestant and orthodox

ahhh so true. why didn't I think of that funny how I didn't even consider the other christian denominations. must be that I'm catholic myself

 

[Swarbs]

When playing Poland I always go for Kiev - the pig, deer and wheat are vital to get the 12 city target in time and you need to get Orthodoxy. My strategy is this:

1. Found Krakow and a city on the plains four tiles N of Krakow (forgot the name, think it starts with an M)

2. Whip out pagan temples in both before Catholicism spreads if you can. That way you get churches and +2 production early as well as extra happiness and culture. Pagan temples are much cheaper than churches so you can whip for just one pop

3. Use your workers to chop catapults in both Krakow and M*. Use cats with your starting stack to take Kiev - no one can DW you for ten turns after you start so you can use all your units if you need

4. Chop another worker in Krakow. Hook up all food resources first asap, then start cottaging the grasslands and plains, building additional farms if you need to grow your cities

5. Whip a settler in M* once you start getting unhappiness. That city has fish, wheat and cow and so grows really fast and can handle some early whipping. Use the settler to found Lulea in N. Scandinavia, next to the copper and fur. The fur will help keep happiness high and there's lots of wood to chop churches - send a couple of workers up and you can chop all churches and two cathedrals in this city whilst the others work on pop and science.

6. Micro your cities to get the population high - the AI will avoid growth when cities are unhappy / unhealthy so make sure this doesn't happen!

7. Once you have built all happiness and health buildings, build loads of soldiers. This will help keep happiness high through Dynasticism, and will also discourage Russia and the HRE from attacking

8. Beeline Liberalism. Don't go off track at all. You can trade Paper for Music but only after you have researched Education. Once you've met the population goal, whip Libraries and run scientists in all cities. Your first GS should pop in time to bulb education. Once you have that you should be sorted, as your scientists and cottages should give you lots of science.

9. Hopefully someone else will get Printing Press, but if not you may need to go off track to research this one to get Protestantism in time. I had to do this (got a GP to bulb part of Printing Press) - managed to whip my cathedrals just in time and got Liberalism in 1610.

10. If Russia or HRE DWs on you then just stack up loads of units in whatever city is being besieged and whip knights to come running from the others. They usually bring lots of catapults but not huge amounts of other units, so they will wear themselves down on big stacks. Even a big stack of archers can be enough to damage them, and you should have plenty from building them to keep cities happy earlier on.

 

[JiimBV]

Any tips for the Mandinka UHV? My troubles lie in producing a Great Prophet, building the University of Sankore before someone else and general defense. To get a GP as well as the GMs needed for the first and final UHV the Great Person pool must be contaminated with GM points. On a few of my attempts the University of Sankore was built right before I could whip it out in the early-mid 1400s, once by France in Cordoba (??) and once by someone I didn't have contact with at the time (Mughals probably). General defense perhaps has an obvious solution, Theocracy, barracks and War Elephants, but my limited production is being spent on very important workers, markets and temples in the early turns in order to achieve the UHV, and by the time all that is done my initial units have run thin and my improvements are being ravaged, or I lost a city and it's time to restart, and around that time I can and do start building the Uni. of Sankore in Wagadagu, the production capital. AND TWICE MECCA WAS CONTROLLED BY BARBARIANS AND I GOT SO MAD. But the whole Mandinka thing kinda makes me mad, despite how much I love it.

 

[mykeedee]

^ Try running a 3000BC start, it gives you a chance to flip camel archers and other assorted barbs, which makes defense less of a concern and saves you precious hammers.

 

[Swarbs]

I met the first two Mandika UHVs in a game today. This was my strategy:

1. Found Timbuktu 1S of your location, Gao 3E of Timbuktu, on the eastern edge of the flood plain with the stone and two elephants in the BFC. Move your settler to Accra on the coast near the crab, but don't found it yet. Spread Islam in Gao.

2. Timbuktu and Gao share the flood plain tiles three each so they grow fast. Gao whips an Islamic temple and Timbuktu a market as soon as they reach the necessary size.

3. Send a skirmisher to meet the Moors. As soon as you can, buy fishing and sailing and then trade Divine Right for Calender, CoL and Meditation (all the techs they will give you). Switch to City States and OR at this point and found Accra now you can work the sea tiles and get a free harbour.

4. Specialise your cities. Accra whips a work boat then library and runs two scientists, Timbuktu two merchants and Gao a priest. That should get you the merchant in time for Mecca (mine arrived in 1330AD going via Marrakus), enough research to get Paper around 1370AD, and a prophet by 1500AD (remember you get extra GP points for the University so that should push you a few turns before the deadline). Just make sure to cancel the scientists in Gao before the GS pops. You should get paper before the GS in Gao, so that shouldn't be a problem - switch the scientists to merchants once paper in done and make sure the prophet pops first.

5. Build walls in Gao and Timbuktu after the market and temple. That will allow you to defend the cities from CAs and Impis.

6. Hook up the two ivory and stone before you get paper so the University builds fast in Gao, which runs three flood plains, a farmed plains, the stone, two elephants and one prophet. I was able to whip the University in around 1470AD.

7. Remember your money - trade spare ivory as much as you can and cottage the flood plains asap. Sell your map once you have paper. I built one extra worker, with the overflow from the temple in Gao. Those four were enough to keep

8. Use mercs for defence. I flipped an Impi on spawn, and used my free barb victories to train it to two star and mounted bonus pretty quick to handle CAs. Had I not flipped the Impi I would have whipped an elephant in Accra to handle the CAs. I also bought a three star crossbow merc who ate Impis for breakfast.

9. Let the CAs pillage what they want then rebuild once they leave - with four workers you can keep on top of anything they throw at you, and they often won't enter your borders if there are no workers within range to tempt them in. A merc crossbow or axeman will kill the Impis before they do too much damage.

10. Don't trade paper with anyone until you have the University! This was a mistake I made previously - selling paper for as much as possible as soon as I got it, then getting beaten to the Univ by the Arabs.

That strategy should work for you, just tweak it for random events and as needed. Most important thing is to specialise the cities - you only need one Prophet so don't waste hammers on temples in other cities, or even on spreading Islam - the gold, gems and ivory will keep everyone happy enough without the need for religious dogma. Gao is the only place that needs Islam, for the OR hammer bonus, the prophet, and Sankore.

You can't legislate for stuff like Mecca being barb, but if you specialise then you will have spare hammers to build defenders, walls and markets in all cities for when it's time to max out gold.

 

[Jusos2108]

Here is my guide for Mandinka.

 

[archcapitalist]

question regarding persia.

this is the uhv i have always had trouble with, and i'm finally almost there. i've hit my 8% at 120 AD but I'm unstable.

i caught babylon and egypt without axes, then used my elephants to roll up greece, rome and india. still didn't have enough area though and i had tons of troops so i added a few french and spanish indies to the empire, one tamil city.

perhaps i should have settled central asia? not really enough time to get most of those cities to pop.

what's the best was to wait out to 350? i can grant independence to the indian subcont, which is ok, since i have the catholic shrine.

try to push out one more great gp before the 12 turn golden age ends? ride 24 turns of golden age from there, hoping for no collapse?

 

[blizzrd]

question regarding persia.

this is the uhv i have always had trouble with, and i'm finally almost there. i've hit my 8% at 120 AD but I'm unstable.

i caught babylon and egypt without axes, then used my elephants to roll up greece, rome and india. still didn't have enough area though and i had tons of troops so i added a few french and spanish indies to the empire, one tamil city.

perhaps i should have settled central asia? not really enough time to get most of those cities to pop.

what's the best was to wait out to 350? i can grant independence to the indian subcont, which is ok, since i have the catholic shrine.

try to push out one more great gp before the 12 turn golden age ends? ride 24 turns of golden age from there, hoping for no collapse?

You should use cultural expansion and settlers to add to the area of your cultural boundaries, not solely rely on conquest. Get your borders to pop on a few cities founded by your own settlers and it will greatly help you with the UHV goal.

 

[archcapitalist]

You should use cultural expansion and settlers to add to the area of your cultural boundaries, not solely rely on conquest. Get your borders to pop on a few cities founded by your own settlers and it will greatly help you with the UHV goal.

i did finish, but where? my existing cities were covering everywhere reasonable.

but the double golden age lasted till 350, and i didn't collapse during that time though it stayed unstable.

 

[Swarbs]

i did finish, but where? my existing cities were covering everywhere reasonable.

but the double golden age lasted till 350, and i didn't collapse during that time though it stayed unstable.

Did you take Samarkand and the ones further up the silk road? IIRC Derbent may spawn around there somewhere. The key to remaining stable as Persia is to avoid too many foreign cores - your UP will keep you stable if you are conquering in foreign areas, but too many cores will outweigh it.

Personally, I found it easer to win as Persia by only going as far as Egypt, Anatolia and India - Greece and Italy get you very little territory and the stability is bad. I then settled a couple of cities in non core areas in Siberia, ran some priests in cities with wonders, and used the Sphinx to get them up to the fourth border pop (at 500 culture). By that point they were worth around 1.75% of territory each, so with them, Persia, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Egypt and India I was laughing. Stability was shaky, but not unstable.

 

[guspasho]

Is there a guide for the Roman UHV? The ones on the backed up wiki are so old, and though I keep hearing that it's supposed to be easy, I'm having a terrible time of it at viceroy. I've only managed to complete the first UHV condition, barely, and I just don't know how I can accomplish the second in time. I don't know yet whether or not the third is feasible.

The barbs and Phoenicians (they always stay alive in the east Mediterranean to hassle me) are always a problem, always razing my improvements and threatening my cities/workers, I can't build praetorians fast enough to counter them. I've found it pretty effective if my starting settlers build Rome, Salonae, and Lentia (1SW of the copper to the NE). I can almost always capture Carthage pretty easily, but the Phoenicians tend to build Messina and hassle me, and it's always a gamble whether I can take Greece with those starting praetorians.

Does the Roman UHV pretty much require reloading all the time to avoid military losses? That doesn't seem right to me. Thanks!

 

[Gigaz]

I've done Rome on Marathon and it was hard.
I conquered Greece with the starting legions and built the Oracle to bulb currency. I bulbed Theology with a great prophet. The rest is comparably easy to do.

 

[Locutus_Morti]

Don't bother with Salonae. Go for either Saguntum, Tarraco, or Nova Carthago. No barbs spawn in Spain until after 200AD at least, giving you plenty of time to beef it up.

 

[Bamboozle]

Has anyone got a guide on the Byzantine UHV?

 

[Barbuesque]

Is there a guide for the Roman UHV? The ones on the backed up wiki are so old, and though I keep hearing that it's supposed to be easy, I'm having a terrible time of it at viceroy. I've only managed to complete the first UHV condition, barely, and I just don't know how I can accomplish the second in time. I don't know yet whether or not the third is feasible.

The barbs and Phoenicians (they always stay alive in the east Mediterranean to hassle me) are always a problem, always razing my improvements and threatening my cities/workers, I can't build praetorians fast enough to counter them. I've found it pretty effective if my starting settlers build Rome, Salonae, and Lentia (1SW of the copper to the NE). I can almost always capture Carthage pretty easily, but the Phoenicians tend to build Messina and hassle me, and it's always a gamble whether I can take Greece with those starting praetorians.

Does the Roman UHV pretty much require reloading all the time to avoid military losses? That doesn't seem right to me. Thanks!

In addition to the comments already said about your initial settlers:

The comments about the rome UHV being easy were for previous versions. Right now it's pretty much broken. It takes the perfect storm at monarch/normal, and is still pretty hard at viceroy.

What you need: Oracle not built yet, Greeks having founded a useful city (like constantinople instead of sparte), and the greek hoplites away from home. Then you can try.

 

[Atlantic Pacf.]

The main thing in my games that annoy me is my science. What is the best way to max out science and beat everyone else in the tech race?

And on a separate but related note, what is the best way in doing tech trades. Most of the time, you can't trade anything with anyone (usually because "We don't want to trade away this tech yet"), and when they do, they often refuse anyways.