Strategy Discussion and Guides

[Daedwartin]

The main thing in my games that annoy me is my science. What is the best way to max out science and beat everyone else in the tech race?

And on a separate but related note, what is the best way in doing tech trades. Most of the time, you can't trade anything with anyone (usually because "We don't want to trade away this tech yet"), and when they do, they often refuse anyways.

stay small, and get commerce rich lands...get them to freindly and pray

 

[Swarbs]

In addition to the comments already said about your initial settlers:

The comments about the rome UHV being easy were for previous versions. Right now it's pretty much broken. It takes the perfect storm at monarch/normal, and is still pretty hard at viceroy.

What you need: Oracle not built yet, Greeks having founded a useful city (like constantinople instead of sparte), and the greek hoplites away from home. Then you can try.

I've found the main thing with Rome is to found Ancona on the pig, rather than Rome itself. That way you get access to the plains hills in Southern Italy, and so can produce fast from both Ancona and Mediolanum.

Build / whip loads of legions, capture Carthage, Greece and Egypt very quickly and you will eliminate your main tech competitors as well as making the conquest UHV easier as you can take your time to build up and conquer Anatolia. Carthage, Athens and Nwt-Rst also grow quickly which makes it easier to whip forums and aqueducts just in time to meet the construction UHV.

 

[Barbuesque]

I've found the main thing with Rome is to found Ancona on the pig, rather than Rome itself. That way you get access to the plains hills in Southern Italy, and so can produce fast from both Ancona and Mediolanum.

Build / whip loads of legions, capture Carthage, Greece and Egypt very quickly and you will eliminate your main tech competitors as well as making the conquest UHV easier as you can take your time to build up and conquer Anatolia. Carthage, Athens and Nwt-Rst also grow quickly which makes it easier to whip forums and aqueducts just in time to meet the construction UHV.

So you'd go balls out with legions? I went for workers and basic infrastructure first, but maybe I could try legions without even a barrack.

 

[guspasho]

So you'd go balls out with legions? I went for workers and basic infrastructure first, but maybe I could try legions without even a barrack.

I have that problem too, there's so much infrastructure that you need to build in Rome (or Ancona) to get that -30% and wonders to bulk up your legions, that it's hard to prioritize.

 

[Barbuesque]

I have that problem too, there's so much infrastructure that you need to build in Rome (or Ancona) to get that -30% and wonders to bulk up your legions, that it's hard to prioritize.

I gave it a shot with barracks - legions/catapults by whipping as soon as I could until I could get a force of 2 cats + 4 legions to conquer around, and that settled the conquest uhv pretty fast, but with some luck (hoplites were in byzantion, not athens). Egypt is usually really strong, I'm not even sure 6 veterans units are enough to conquer it without some lucky combat rolls.

OTOH the oracle was already built - I couldn't research both currency and construction in time, especially by delaying basic infrastructure. For that reason alone, the rome uhv really needs a rework. It's such a crapshoot as it is now.

I may give it another shot... but I don't think so. I'm not really interested in a setup where you need to reload starts 3-4 times to even have a shot.

 

[guspasho]

I gave it a shot with barracks - legions/catapults by whipping as soon as I could until I could get a force of 2 cats + 4 legions to conquer around, and that settled the conquest uhv pretty fast, but with some luck (hoplites were in byzantion, not athens). Egypt is usually really strong, I'm not even sure 6 veterans units are enough to conquer it without some lucky combat rolls.

OTOH the oracle was already built - I couldn't research both currency and construction in time, especially by delaying basic infrastructure. For that reason alone, the rome uhv really needs a rework. It's such a crapshoot as it is now.

I may give it another shot... but I don't think so. I'm not really interested in a setup where you need to reload starts 3-4 times to even have a shot.

It's really unfortunate that Rome's UHV, of all civs, is broken so. I should ask then, what other UHVs are similarly broken, so that I don't bother playing them?

I'm trying the Turks right now, their UHV requires you to control Babylon and Cairo, but I've rolled starts where one or the other hadn't been built, but more often than not I think those cities will show up as they should. I guess I can still raze any city within 1 tile of those locations and build Babylon and Cairo in the right locations, but that still seems broken-ish for multiple reasons.

 

[Barbuesque]

It's really unfortunate that Rome's UHV, of all civs, is broken so. I should ask then, what other UHVs are similarly broken, so that I don't bother playing them?

I'm trying the Turks right now, their UHV requires you to control Babylon and Cairo, but I've rolled starts where one or the other hadn't been built, but more often than not I think those cities will show up as they should. I guess I can still raze any city within 1 tile of those locations and build Babylon and Cairo in the right locations, but that still seems broken-ish for multiple reasons.

Usually post 600 AD civs are balanced around the 600 AD scenario city placement.

The only civ that seems 100% broken to me is Persia - It's the same UHV that was very hard before roman and greek conquerors were added + Byzantium flipping the levant.

I'm not sure how hard India is in 1.10 with the Tamils

Following civs are certainly doable, but depend on factors outside your control

Poland - Taking Kiev with the starting forces is dicey, other civs city placement can really choke you.

Ethiopia - Actually doable now that independents don't research theology as early as before, but it's perfectly possible to roll up a game where Rome founds Christianity a few turns after you spawn.

Greece - Egypt with archery = restart imo. Otherwise it's fine.

The other civs are fine in my opinion. Most unbalanced UHVs seem to be in the classical era which makes me sad.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Greece - Egypt with archery = restart imo. Otherwise it's fine.

Hoplites should start with Cover.

 

[Barbuesque]

Ok I managed to do it as Rome... probably spoke a little too fast

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12084549&postcount=122

It's unreliable though as certain factors just can't be guaranteed every game (oracle, greek units placement)

 

[Swarbs]

So you'd go balls out with legions? I went for workers and basic infrastructure first, but maybe I could try legions without even a barrack.

Partially. I tried to be strategic with my early build - building barracks and legions most of the time, but switching to workers on the turn a forest was chopped.

Started out building barracks in Antium (on the pig) and Mediolanum, first two workers chopped forests one for each city. When those forests were chopped I switched to workers to get four workers (took a couple of forests for each city), then back to barracks. As soon as the iron was hooked up I started on legions and chopped out three or four before switching back to infrastructure. I also settled the marble in east France, which is a great location for food and production as well as having lots of forest to chop

First stage was to conquer Carthage, which I did immediately, around two turns after starting as it only had two archers and a spearman. All four legions survived and three got CA promotions. Then to Sparta, which only had a warrior in and was razed. Athens had the hoplites, and the Cothon, so I lost one legion and that killed Greece. When my first two legions were ready in Rome I moved four legions into Egypt (leaving one in Athens) and captured Pi-Rameses (IIRC) which was in the river delta. It only had a spearman in it, so I attacked from the ships then moved all four legions in. Brought another two legions from Italy then sent five legions south and conquered Nwt-Rst. Ignored the other Egyptian cities further down the Nile as they soon collapsed.

After that I build settlers in Carthage and Athens to found Byzantium and Hippo in Africa, and more settlers to found a cities on the west coast of Spain as well as a couple more in France and one in England (building on the turn chopping was finished whenever possible). The Phoenicians vassalised to me, so with about ten turns to go before the UHV I sent a couple more legions to Egypt then rolled through Jerusalem and up to Ankara to get four in Greece and Anatolia. As soon as the UHV was won I gave the cities to the Phoenicians so they wouldn't hurt science. Built the majority of the UHV buildings in Ancona, Mediolanum, Carthage, Nwt-Rst and the awesome production city in France.

I did get quite lucky in that the Oracle hadn't been taken, and Athens was captured with a harbour plus Cothon and improved marble and hills. So Athens basically went all out for the Oracle as soon as it was captured, which freed Ancona up to build legions and infrastructure. It would have been difficult to get the tech without the Oracle, but then there wasn't much competition for the techs that I could see - never managed to scout China but I got all techs in 485AD so I doubt they were that close. The save was on an older SVN so doesn't work any more, but I think I managed to bulb one of the techs, or a supporting tech, with a GP - not quite sure which one tho'. Possibly Civil Service with a GP from the Oracle plus a Catholic church in Athens.

The key imo is to found Antium rather than Rome - production is vastly superior with the plains hills to the south and you don't cramp Mediolanum so both cities will pretty soon have 15 plus production each. That makes it easy to build lots of legions, not only to invade but also to build roads and defend your lands against barbs.

 

[Swarbs]

I'm not sure how hard India is in 1.10 with the Tamils

On the one hand it can be pretty hard, but on the other hand it is easier to conquer the Tamil capital than have to build yet another 234 hammer settler. The main thing for India in 1.10 is to capture a Persian city - you need to have Zoroastrianism to meet the temple goal as it is just about impossible to build ten cities, spread religion to all of them, and get them all developed enough to build / whip two temples each.

I think India is one of the ones, along with Egypt, Babylon and Ethiopia, which is just about impossible on Emperor unless you are very very lucky. Even if you kill the Persians and Tamils you will never get enough cities and temples with the reduced happiness and barbs rampaging all over Persia and NW India.

That said, I think India would be doable if DoC used the Pilgrim unit from RFC Classical World. That unit can be converted into a missionary in the holy city, so it would allow the Indian player to introduce Zoroastrianism and even Taoism or Confucianism into India to help meet the temple goal.

Other than the temple goal, India is pretty easy to win imo - the shrines can be built well in time with a decent strategy, and the population goal practically wins itself once you have calendar and hook up all the health and happiness resources for the Ganges and Indus floodplain cities.

 

[guspasho]

Partially. I tried to be strategic with my early build - building barracks and legions most of the time, but switching to workers on the turn a forest was chopped.

Started out building barracks in Antium (on the pig) and Mediolanum, first two workers chopped forests one for each city. When those forests were chopped I switched to workers to get four workers (took a couple of forests for each city), then back to barracks. As soon as the iron was hooked up I started on legions and chopped out three or four before switching back to infrastructure. I also settled the marble in east France, which is a great location for food and production as well as having lots of forest to chop

First stage was to conquer Carthage, which I did immediately, around two turns after starting as it only had two archers and a spearman. All four legions survived and three got CA promotions. Then to Sparta, which only had a warrior in and was razed. Athens had the hoplites, and the Cothon, so I lost one legion and that killed Greece. When my first two legions were ready in Rome I moved four legions into Egypt (leaving one in Athens) and captured Pi-Rameses (IIRC) which was in the river delta. It only had a spearman in it, so I attacked from the ships then moved all four legions in. Brought another two legions from Italy then sent five legions south and conquered Nwt-Rst. Ignored the other Egyptian cities further down the Nile as they soon collapsed.

After that I build settlers in Carthage and Athens to found Byzantium and Hippo in Africa, and more settlers to found a cities on the west coast of Spain as well as a couple more in France and one in England (building on the turn chopping was finished whenever possible). The Phoenicians vassalised to me, so with about ten turns to go before the UHV I sent a couple more legions to Egypt then rolled through Jerusalem and up to Ankara to get four in Greece and Anatolia. As soon as the UHV was won I gave the cities to the Phoenicians so they wouldn't hurt science. Built the majority of the UHV buildings in Ancona, Mediolanum, Carthage, Nwt-Rst and the awesome production city in France.

I did get quite lucky in that the Oracle hadn't been taken, and Athens was captured with a harbour plus Cothon and improved marble and hills. So Athens basically went all out for the Oracle as soon as it was captured, which freed Ancona up to build legions and infrastructure. It would have been difficult to get the tech without the Oracle, but then there wasn't much competition for the techs that I could see - never managed to scout China but I got all techs in 485AD so I doubt they were that close. The save was on an older SVN so doesn't work any more, but I think I managed to bulb one of the techs, or a supporting tech, with a GP - not quite sure which one tho'. Possibly Civil Service with a GP from the Oracle plus a Catholic church in Athens.

The key imo is to found Antium rather than Rome - production is vastly superior with the plains hills to the south and you don't cramp Mediolanum so both cities will pretty soon have 15 plus production each. That makes it easy to build lots of legions, not only to invade but also to build roads and defend your lands against barbs.

What is the benefit of attacking Egypt? And how did you build settlers in Carthage? They are disabled in Carthage for me.

 

[archcapitalist]

Partially. I tried to be strategic with my early build - building barracks and legions most of the time, but switching to workers on the turn a forest was chopped.

Started out building barracks in Antium (on the pig) and Mediolanum, first two workers chopped forests one for each city. When those forests were chopped I switched to workers to get four workers (took a couple of forests for each city), then back to barracks. As soon as the iron was hooked up I started on legions and chopped out three or four before switching back to infrastructure. I also settled the marble in east France, which is a great location for food and production as well as having lots of forest to chop

First stage was to conquer Carthage, which I did immediately, around two turns after starting as it only had two archers and a spearman. All four legions survived and three got CA promotions. Then to Sparta, which only had a warrior in and was razed. Athens had the hoplites, and the Cothon, so I lost one legion and that killed Greece. When my first two legions were ready in Rome I moved four legions into Egypt (leaving one in Athens) and captured Pi-Rameses (IIRC) which was in the river delta. It only had a spearman in it, so I attacked from the ships then moved all four legions in. Brought another two legions from Italy then sent five legions south and conquered Nwt-Rst. Ignored the other Egyptian cities further down the Nile as they soon collapsed.

After that I build settlers in Carthage and Athens to found Byzantium and Hippo in Africa, and more settlers to found a cities on the west coast of Spain as well as a couple more in France and one in England (building on the turn chopping was finished whenever possible). The Phoenicians vassalised to me, so with about ten turns to go before the UHV I sent a couple more legions to Egypt then rolled through Jerusalem and up to Ankara to get four in Greece and Anatolia. As soon as the UHV was won I gave the cities to the Phoenicians so they wouldn't hurt science. Built the majority of the UHV buildings in Ancona, Mediolanum, Carthage, Nwt-Rst and the awesome production city in France.

I did get quite lucky in that the Oracle hadn't been taken, and Athens was captured with a harbour plus Cothon and improved marble and hills. So Athens basically went all out for the Oracle as soon as it was captured, which freed Ancona up to build legions and infrastructure. It would have been difficult to get the tech without the Oracle, but then there wasn't much competition for the techs that I could see - never managed to scout China but I got all techs in 485AD so I doubt they were that close. The save was on an older SVN so doesn't work any more, but I think I managed to bulb one of the techs, or a supporting tech, with a GP - not quite sure which one tho'. Possibly Civil Service with a GP from the Oracle plus a Catholic church in Athens.

The key imo is to found Antium rather than Rome - production is vastly superior with the plains hills to the south and you don't cramp Mediolanum so both cities will pretty soon have 15 plus production each. That makes it easy to build lots of legions, not only to invade but also to build roads and defend your lands against barbs.

most of this worked for me in an attempt to recreate. when my galleys approcahed egypt i saw two axemen in alexandria so i turned around and headed for byzantion. i took ankyra from there while my newly built legions laned outside jerusalem. built a few legions from athens and then attacked egypt once, peace was made with persia, cartage was gone, and i had 8 legions in jerusalem. so even without getting egypt early, its still possible.

the oracle being available and a solid athens (i also found it with the cothon) is probably much more important

 

[strijder20]

On the one hand it can be pretty hard, but on the other hand it is easier to conquer the Tamil capital than have to build yet another 234 hammer settler. The main thing for India in 1.10 is to capture a Persian city - you need to have Zoroastrianism to meet the temple goal as it is just about impossible to build ten cities, spread religion to all of them, and get them all developed enough to build / whip two temples each.

If you conquer the Tamils it's definitely possible - although hard - to get 10 cities. Remember that Hanoi is free too, and that you could settle Palembang on the Iron as the goal has to be completed in 700 AD (unless it changed), before the Indonesian spawn.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

So, I finally have the time to start 1.10 on rev451.

I fired up a China game last night and sought to squat India.
The indie cities spawned so I attempted to make an early rush with a pair of Warriors.
However around the time of the India spawn, my Warriors disappeared.
Did they flip, or is this a bug/change, regarding India's birth?

Anyways, am looking forward to contributing strategy again.

 

[Go Boks]

What is the fastest tech path to industrial age for Congo?

 

[Ororo]

From my personal experience: Steel. But it's heavily influenced by the tech trades you make.

Physics can be pretty fast as well if you trade for some prerequsites and have spawned Great Scientists exclusively.

 

[Daedwartin]

What is the fastest tech path to industrial age for Congo?

Pray to god your lucky.

 

[Swarbs]

What is the benefit of attacking Egypt? And how did you build settlers in Carthage? They are disabled in Carthage for me.

Benefit of attacking Egypt is if you get there quick enough they may not have axes and roll over easy. Also, the longer you leave Egypt the bigger they can get through spamming cities around the Nile. They are also likely to have useful wonders like the Pyramids, which can help with getting the building goals, produce good commerce from cottaged floodplains, and can be used to whip the needed buildings.

My mistake on the Carthage settler - I build / whip settlers in Mediolanum whilst waiting for Antium to build the UHV buildings for the 30% bonus, and Carthage generally focuses on the buildings with additional soldiers sent to help

the oracle being available and a solid athens (i also found it with the cothon) is probably much more important

This. Athens doesn't need the Cothon, but the marble, fish and clam improved is vital, also a mine on the NW hill is good. I would guess the Oracle is almost vital, unless you get lucky with huts / trades.

If you conquer the Tamils it's definitely possible - although hard - to get 10 cities. Remember that Hanoi is free too, and that you could settle Palembang on the Iron as the goal has to be completed in 700 AD (unless it changed), before the Indonesian spawn.

10 cities is possible - I've done it on Emperor before, tho' you then don't have enough time to build temples. On Emperor you have to spend so much time fighting barbs, and techs come slower so you are later to iron working (for gold and gems) and also for building spears and elephants for defence. Hanoi and Palembang might help, just need to get a coastal city and spare time to build galleys before barbs arrive! Tempted to try again and nerf tech after getting iron working, then use mercs rather than having to build units to fight.

It's the barbarian triple whammy - increased difficulty means more barbs, combat penalties vs barbs, and slower tech so it's harder to get good units to fight barbs. I think that's something that needs to be addressed in a future update, maybe with an intermediate difficulty where barbs are either more numerous or have a combat advantage.

From my personal experience: Steel. But it's heavily influenced by the tech trades you make.

Physics can be pretty fast as well if you trade for some prerequsites and have spawned Great Scientists exclusively.

Steel is best imo - just beeline it straight from the start and don't worry about anything else - you can trade for Calendar and others. Make sure to found a city on the gold to the SE (Durban location) asap as this will help you with commerce to get your tech rate up. Found it as soon as you can whip the settler from the capital and escort with a Pombos.

 

[Kokturk]

I've read before (I think in one of Tomorrow's Dawn AAR) that the optimal city placement in North American "Big Triangle" is NewOrlean north of fish, Denver on the oil and Chicago between 2 Corn resources. Do you guys think it changed due to improved city tile yield when founding on resource?