Stuff you wish they taught in school

[Peck of Arabia]

I was actually talking excitedly about this with someone in my seminar group, over coffee, the other day.

Ideally a class where once a week you are sat down and routinely lectured that, though test scores show you understand the subject and you're pretty smart and all, there's more to life than test results and a bit general knowledge makes you more of an interesting person, would be nice. Or more than lectured, helped to develop that general knowledge. This was brought to my attention the other day when a contemporary of mine, who was successful enough to do a decent course at a decent university, turned to me and asked 'When was The First World War, 1910?'

(Okay, I might be biased, as a history student, on that point, but I still maintain the dates of the two world wars is something everyone should know, on account of it being on every war memorial and broadcast every 11th November)

I also feel teaching people to debate and reason arguments properly would be nice, especially when coupled with a crash course in critical thinking; I attempted to start a political debate the other day (again with students) and was lambasted as 'heartless' and 'fascist' because I started a sentence with 'as a market liberal...' I don't even know if I am a market liberal, really. And the second statement doesn't even make sense...

 

[MantaRevan]

It's not me who is that way, it is society.

No. I don't think so.
You said that the only reason women want to be teachers is because it's cheap, and allows for being dumb. Sounds pretty damn sexist to me.

 

[cardgame]

I think we can all agree that schools need to teach you how to think (critically) not just how to test... the question is, how exactly does one go about teaching something like that, particularly in this age of No Child Left Behind and standardized testing.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

I also feel teaching people to debate and reason arguments properly would be nice, especially when coupled with a crash course in critical thinking; I attempted to start a political debate the other day (again with students) and was lambasted as 'heartless' and 'fascist' because I started a sentence with 'as a market liberal...' I don't even know if I am a market liberal, really. And the second statement doesn't even make sense...

I'm not sure if critical thinking would really help. People do that kind of namecalling and emotional appeal when they know they don't have a legitimate point. Kind of like supporters of the Patriot Act saying the opponents want terrorists to kill Americans. Or people who oppose the 21 drinking age being heartless monsters who want kids to die on the roads.

I'd like to see everyone learn economics, logic, and methodology. That way future journalists will be less likely to butcher the reporting of an academic finding, and the rest of us can critically analyze the results instead of blindly accepting the conclusions.

 

[amadeus]

This is quite possibly the most uninformed post I have ever read on what someone's economic views are. It's like taking the economic policies of the Republican party and attributing them to Krugman.

Especially that housing bubble one, which I remember reading Krugman warning about it in like 2003. I see you don't read Krugman but instead rely on his ideologically-based critics.

Krugman in 2001: "In time this overhang will be worked off. Meanwhile, economic policy should encourage other spending to offset the temporary slump in business investment. Low interest rates, which promote spending on housing and other durable goods, are the main answer. But it seems inevitable that there will also be a fiscal stimulus package."

Deliberately teaching false stuff that's been discredited for near on a century isn't going to help anyone..

Do you think digging holes and filling them back up would be good for the economy?

We need critical thinking classes in our schools.

Sorry, the public school system exists to teach kids what to think, not how to think.

 

[Ajidica]

Krugman in 2001: "In time this overhang will be worked off. Meanwhile, economic policy should encourage other spending to offset the temporary slump in business investment. Low interest rates, which promote spending on housing and other durable goods, are the main answer. But it seems inevitable that there will also be a fiscal stimulus package."

Yes, in 2001 after the dot-com crash. Create a bubble to bring us out of the recession and then pop it under controlled circumstances.

 

[amadeus]

Yes, in 2001 after the dot-com crash. Create a bubble to bring us out of the recession and then pop it under controlled circumstances.

Controlled circumstances? It's not like demolishing a building. Keep faith in central planning, Ajidica! The planners have always known how to fix things in the past, right? Project Cybersyn! We can just put it all in a big computer and our problems will be solved.

 

[useless]

Controlled circumstances? It's not like demolishing a building. Keep faith in central planning, Ajidica! The planners have always known how to fix things in the past, right? Project Cybersyn! We can just put it all in a big computer and our problems will be solved.

Or alternatively leave it to the free-market, which always fixes the problem.

 

[NovaKart]

Yeah, public school teaching has been by FAR, the hardest thing I've ever done. It doesn't necessarily require an exceptional academic pedigree, but you cannot do it well if you are dumb, and most people do not do it well at all.

A big reason teachers face a pay and prestige gap in my country is because the profession is dominated by women.

Out of curiosity what do you teach?

I teach ESL and the problem I always face is that I have people come in who think it's going to be easy to learn English and they can just come in and learn it without much effort and they're just not serious about it and I have to try to get these people to stick it out and usually it doesn't work.

 

[Cutlass]

Krugman in 2001: "In time this overhang will be worked off. Meanwhile, economic policy should encourage other spending to offset the temporary slump in business investment. Low interest rates, which promote spending on housing and other durable goods, are the main answer. But it seems inevitable that there will also be a fiscal stimulus package."


Do you think digging holes and filling them back up would be good for the economy?


Sorry, the public school system exists to teach kids what to think, not how to think.

Name someone who has actually suggested that instead of just deliberately miss characterizing things as that. Any jobs are better than just letting the market do what it wants. But no one is suggesting digging holes and filling them in except the people who refuse to pass Universal Health Care.

 

[squall78]

"your are not a beautiful and unique snowflake" class would be interesting.

 

[downtown]

Out of curiosity what do you teach?

I teach ESL and the problem I always face is that I have people come in who think it's going to be easy to learn English and they can just come in and learn it without much effort and they're just not serious about it and I have to try to get these people to stick it out and usually it doesn't work.

I don't teach anymore, but I've previously taught fourth grade, 1st grade, and high school band.

 

[amadeus]

Name someone who has actually suggested that instead of just deliberately miss characterizing things as that.

Well, there's anyone who says that World War II brought us out of the depression. The only difference is digging the holes would have been, though hard to imagine, less destructive and less evil. Instead of holes, Krugman offers us imaginary alien invasions.

Any jobs are better than just letting the market do what it wants. But no one is suggesting digging holes and filling them in except the people who refuse to pass Universal Health Care.

I don't know what socialized medicine has to do with awful theories of stimulating aggregate demand and providing unproductive make-work jobs. I suppose I'd inclined to describe socialized medicine as a giant hole, though.

 

[Antilogic]

Well, there's anyone who says that World War II brought us out of the depression. The only difference is digging the holes would have been, though hard to imagine, less destructive and less evil. Instead of holes, Krugman offers us imaginary alien invasions.


I don't know what socialized medicine has to do with awful theories of stimulating aggregate demand and providing unproductive make-work jobs. I suppose I'd inclined to describe socialized medicine as a giant hole, though.

...you don't get his sense of humor. We understand.

Yes, Krugman throws around crazy hypothetical situations to think out of the box and illustrate economic concepts. But that doesn't mean he's actually advocating that as a policy. Same with the hole-digging example and Keynes, but people love to quote him out of context too. Same with Darwin and the evolution of the eye... man, note to self: if I write a magnum opus, don't use rhetorical questions or flourishes.

 

[amadeus]

Krugman says arming for imaginary aliens would be good for the economy, but doesn't advocate it? You've only convinced me that Krugman is worse than I had originally thought.

Of course the hole-digging example was a rhetorical device, or was it? A story goes that Milton Friedman was traveling somewhere in Asia and stopped to visit a construction site. Instead of using heavy machinery, people were using shovels. Friedman asks a government official why the machinery goes unused. The official states that the site is a jobs program, so the less efficient shovels keep more people employed, and it's said that Friedman asks the official "then why not use spoons instead of shovels?"

Spoon-ready jobs?

 

[Antilogic]

Krugman says arming for imaginary aliens would be good for the economy, but doesn't advocate it? You've only convinced me that Krugman is worse than I had originally thought.

Missed the point by a mile. Truly impressive, good sir.

Of course the hole-digging example was a rhetorical device, or was it? A story goes that Milton Friedman was traveling somewhere in Asia and stopped to visit a construction site. Instead of using heavy machinery, people were using shovels. Friedman asks a government official why the machinery goes unused. The official states that the site is a jobs program, so the less efficient shovels keep more people employed, and it's said that Friedman asks the official "then why not use spoons instead of shovels?"

Spoon-ready jobs?

Just for you, here is the quote from his book. I have added the boldface for emphasis:

"To dig holes in the ground," paid for out of savings, will increase, not only employment, but the real national dividend of useful goods and services. It is not reasonable, however, that a sensible community should be content to remain dependent on such fortuitous and often wasteful mitigations when once we understand the influences upon which effective demand depends.

 

[amadeus]

Don't forget the one about the bottles, too. Show it to Krugman and those that believe war is good for the economy.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Are we going to argue whether Mystic Meg or Russell Grant is better at doing astrology next?

 

[Tee Kay]

"your are not a beautiful and unique snowflake" class would be interesting.

I want a "you're a beautiful and unique snowflake" class and I actually want the principle to be put into practice in education as a whole (as opposed to trying to provide a "one size fits all" conformistic education system).

 

[Peck of Arabia]

Here's a novel idea; abolish the majority of, if not all, standardised tests. Seriously, what do they show apart from being able to choke up the curriculum at will? Essays are as good a test system as any, allowing for a bit of personal flair, rewarding argument development while at the same time being able to accurately locate lack of knowledge and highlight errors. Have essay based "exams", or just regular essay writing to check if students are learning anything, coupled with the development of a early CV or Resume type thing as an opportunity to make extracurricular activities count for something and at an end of schooling compile a teachers report to act as a character reference. This forms a bundle that can be sent to prospective university or employer and would provide a far better indicator as to the type of student than a grade and a personal statement.

A little radical, I know, but I'm sure it has potential