Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I was not suggesting upgrade I was suggesting say at Literature -1 and +1 .

OK if you want that then I'll do the following

Myths of an animal eg Maned Wolf

- available with Oral Tradition;
- only one per nation
- built by subdued/tamed animal
- gives +1 until Writing then +1 education and (new) +1​

Myths of an animal group eg Wolves

- available at Taxonomy;
- only one per nation
- can be built as normal building or by a subdued/tamed animal
- gives +1 until Writing then +1 education and +1.
- Requires at least a myth of one of the canines in the nation.​

For paleolithic animals new building Remains of animal

- mostly about Biology etc. Needs more work
- one per city
- gives +1:culture; with Biology +1 and +1 education
- Requires Myth to exist in the nation​

Story of an animal

- available at writing
- one per city
- built by story teller line or subdued/tamed animal
- requires the myth of same animal in nation
​

Stories of an animal

- available at Literature
- only one per nation
- puts a story of animal in all cities.
- built by story teller line or subdued/tamed animal
- Requires at least one story of that animal to exist.​

The other buildings from subdued animals are

Governor's Pets

Governor's Menagerie (Requires: G Pets and bricks)

Carnival - probably needs a new name. I think it was meant as traveling shows. as it allows Dancing Bears.

Animal Enclosures. Probably should go back to calling these cages so that they can cause major upset in modern times and be replaced by the more animal friendly enclosures. They should also link to the breeding programs. They already link to the tamer buildings.

Animal Tamers - source of new animal units.​

other ideas

1) I have been considering giving all subdued animals a combat strength of zero, since they are not intended for combat. They are supposed to represent one or two of the animals with a human handler bringing them back to your nation.

2) The food part is only because if you capture the animal you don't get any or from the combat. Perhaps you should get the kill in the wild and the animal with no killing back at home.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Overall that sounds good.

1. Shouldn't the Paleo stuff get a bonus at Paleontology tech?

2. You could always rename the Carnival to "Circus" to imply its a traveling show.

3. That's probably a good idea to have both Cages and Enclosures. Good idea!

4. I have no real opinion on giving them combat 0. Do what you thinks best.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

1. Both actually, I am not sure if it should be a a building or resource though. I was thinking that they should have an effect on the speed of building the Theory of Evolution. Perhaps each having a 1% reduction in cost and Fossils having a 5% reduction in cost.

2. I thought of Circus but "Traveling Show" may be better for the early period.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Since you are having settings of a small base of animals vs more diverse types of animals I wondered if you wanted me to convert more Giraffes and have a core giraffe vs giraffe types.

The one we currently have takes from the Reticulated Giraffe.

(Reticulated Giraffe)

But there is also another base game (ZT2) one ...

(Masai Giraffe)

And I am sure I could find more downloads of other species of Giraffes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are no giraffes in the basic version. The basic version will have one each of Rhino, Bear, Lion, Wolf, and Eagle. It may also have an elephant, horse, camel and maybe Mammoth however the resources may be enough. I have not decided on which of the sea critters will be in yet. Probably none of them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

There are no giraffes in the basic version. The basic version will have one each of Rhino, Bear, Lion, Wolf, and Eagle. It may also have an elephant, horse, camel and maybe Mammoth however the resources may be enough. I have not decided on which of the sea critters will be in yet. Probably none of them.

Yeah I know. I was saying that if there were more than one type of Giraffe you might want to make the one we already have under the basic version.

 

[stoferb]

Why not have subspecies buildable from animals as a feature of your basic culture. For example wolves gives pretty much everyone dogs, but oceanian civs get the dingo instead. Asian civs gets the Asian elephant much more suited for military use while everyone else get's the African elephant that is better suited as a source of ivory.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why not have subspecies buildable from animals as a feature of your basic culture. For example wolves gives pretty much everyone dogs, but oceanian civs get the dingo instead. Asian civs gets the Asian elephant much more suited for military use while everyone else get's the African elephant that is better suited as a source of ivory.

Defeats the main purpose which is to have a smaller game memory footprint since you have fewer graphics.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Going through some combat classes and updating new unit additions, I've been noticing a lot of new animal additions (nice .)

Any chance we could get this guy into the game? We've done very well adding more of the extinct animals that humans would've cohabitated with but the more we can the better.

Oh... personal note... I do seriously question the need for so many sub-categories of animals. So long as it also has some game meaning its not a big deal but I'm going through and wondering why, never having heard of a tapir before we included them in the mod, there's a need for so many varieties of them. I can work with that but how would we benefit from having many differing types of giraffes when they all differ pretty much in little but spot patterns? Any idea how many differing types of cows there are? It seems to me that trying to capture this much 'resolution' on our expression of the real world is going to be a disruptive effort because it tends to show how many base species aren't represented at all.

Example: We have no scorpions in the game. We don't have a rattlesnake. No rabbits. Very few major songbird species. No salamanders. No Otters. Beavers. Weasels. Rats. Mice. But we have 4 types of Tapirs.

This makes development priorities feel a bit skewed there.

Don't take this to be a criticism of the work that's been done though... I mean I don't mean to down what we have, just maybe offer some suggestion on focus for future advancements. We're very close to having a very vibrant and fleshed out world here.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Three varieties of Tapirs were added because if you start in the South American region of the planet you lack animals. We really only needed two I suppose one for South America and one for Malaya. The Malayan one is the one that was mistaken for an elephant by the ancients.

Now that we have an abundance of animals and once I get the bit of code working to distinguish between hemispheres for resource placement we will be able to use the animal myths as cultural prerequisites.

We do have rabbits and beavers in game but as resources not as wild animals. Scorpions are on the list to do. We also have the sea otter in play.

With this review I am doing, you will have a choice between lots of animals or just 5 or 6 animals in game. The difference will mostly be a saving in graphics memory. You will still have lots of animal units in game. Choosing the smaller group will also remove access to many buildings. If I can get them fully "WoC-ed" this will also reduce the load.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Any chance we could get this guy into the game? We've done very well adding more of the extinct animals that humans would've cohabitated with but the more we can the better..

Paraceratherium (also known as Indicotherium) is not in the right time. They lived in the Oligocene

For some perspective Neanderthals lived in the Middle to Late Pleistocene.

And the Woolly Mammoth lived in the Pleistocene to Early Holocene.

While a very cool giant mammal, its just too old for C2C.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Three varieties of Tapirs were added because if you start in the South American region of the planet you lack animals. We really only needed two I suppose one for South America and one for Malaya. The Malayan one is the one that was mistaken for an elephant by the ancients.

Now that we have an abundance of animals and once I get the bit of code working to distinguish between hemispheres for resource placement we will be able to use the animal myths as cultural prerequisites.

I thought that might've been part of the direction you were going there. Fair 'nuff. So long as it has good game reason its cool but I do think we need to be a little careful of making a part of the game feel overdeveloped while others remain under. Just something to consider.

We do have rabbits and beavers in game but as resources not as wild animals. Scorpions are on the list to do. We also have the sea otter in play.

Deer, horses, donkeys, also all resources. Why should rabbits and beavers not also be wild animals? (Sorry bout the otter... oops ) Particularly when we play on the aforementioned, among many others, for placement of further resources.

With this review I am doing, you will have a choice between lots of animals or just 5 or 6 animals in game. The difference will mostly be a saving in graphics memory. You will still have lots of animal units in game. Choosing the smaller group will also remove access to many buildings. If I can get them fully "WoC-ed" this will also reduce the load.

I hope it doesn't disrupt the combat class adjustments I'm making... if you're making great changes there please try to hold out for my next update (and I'll push it a little sooner than I was going to.)

Paraceratherium (also known as Indicotherium) is not in the right time. They lived in the Oligocene

For some perspective Neanderthals lived in the Middle to Late Pleistocene.

And the Woolly Mammoth lived in the Pleistocene to Early Holocene.

While a very cool giant mammal, its just too old for C2C.

Ah... fair 'nuff. Well considered then.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We do have "a rabbit" however it takes a company of knights to kill it if you don't have "The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch". It uses the Lion attack animation.

We can only have animals we have graphics for.

Some of the changes I am making to the myths etc assume you have some of the common animals eg some form of amphibian and rodent.

We have enough complaints about pigeons. Imagine what will happen when mice destroy units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I do plan to eventually give all units some measure of strength... just going to take some new coding approaches to make it work properly.


And mice are no worse than a frog taking down a settler.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The only frog in game is highly poisonous.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Sure if you get it's blood in yours somehow.

 

[Stimpified]

I experienced a seemingly small lizard heavily damage my attack helicopter... must of had acid for blood?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I experienced a seemingly small lizard heavily damage my attack helicopter... must of had acid for blood?

He was just trying to make a nest!

Actually, some combat mod adaptations coming should eventually keep this sort of thing from ever being an issue. (except in very odd circumstances)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Why should rabbits and beavers not also be wild animals

We do have a Beaver unit too.

The rabbit however was in DH's mod I think. However it was more like a Monty Python killer rabbit, more than a real rabbit.

 

[Stimpified]

I didn't mind it really. When I was flying transports in the USAF, we would occasionally experience essential flight component malfunctions with no known cause... I ended up accepting such random events as part of life in the tech era

He was just trying to make a nest!

Actually, some combat mod adaptations coming should eventually keep this sort of thing from ever being an issue. (except in very odd circumstances)