Succession game anyone?
- Thread starter Aline
- Start date
Why do we need to settle for a crappy spot at all? If we settle on the scrub 1E of the lake, 1N of the hut? That gets us fresh water, 8 floodplains, the gold, an oasis, and one additional hill for some hammers with no overlap. After we get an adept the value of the land goes up dramatically, but before then it won't be required.
The c1 city can be built 1 square north of the marker and would score us 8 FP, a hill and a forest for hammers without penalizing our capital.
I think the first production city we found should be 3W 3S of the bones. You can move 1N to get a river and a hill, but it overlapped with my cow/fish town and won't be recoverable without overlap. If I over-think it and allow overlapping we can go 1N of the gorilla to net us a no-overlap Gold/Dye/Banana town later.
Its a hard choice but settling the Dragonbone/Yggdrasil site for our starter town was a good play.
As far as 7 pines go, I think its completely fair game to use since we enabled them purposely. It will give us 10 turns to convert civs from Evil before declaring again.
Mining is great since it lets us chop, reveals copper and moves us closer to Way of the Earthmother. Economy-wise, its smarter to go Aristocracy first as it will give us a huge tech lead as long as our capital can keep up with the defenders. I vote Mysticism -> Education -> Code of Laws -> Exploration -> Crafting -> Mining -> Way of the Earthmother. Mysticism first for temporary God King so it can support our floodplain towns. With our potential science rate, we should hit CoL at almost the same time, but be in a much better position than not taking God King first.
Aline, do you think you can put up a picture of our starting position with variant comments on the front page and a link to Q's first moves for the lurkers?
Anyways, here is my attempt at city plots. We should settle the flood towns first IMHO:
Our "rear" with production potential:
Orc watch posts:
Gold town with 2 hybrid towns:
The c1 city can be built 1 square north of the marker and would score us 8 FP, a hill and a forest for hammers without penalizing our capital.
I think the first production city we found should be 3W 3S of the bones. You can move 1N to get a river and a hill, but it overlapped with my cow/fish town and won't be recoverable without overlap. If I over-think it and allow overlapping we can go 1N of the gorilla to net us a no-overlap Gold/Dye/Banana town later.
Its a hard choice but settling the Dragonbone/Yggdrasil site for our starter town was a good play.
As far as 7 pines go, I think its completely fair game to use since we enabled them purposely. It will give us 10 turns to convert civs from Evil before declaring again.
Mining is great since it lets us chop, reveals copper and moves us closer to Way of the Earthmother. Economy-wise, its smarter to go Aristocracy first as it will give us a huge tech lead as long as our capital can keep up with the defenders. I vote Mysticism -> Education -> Code of Laws -> Exploration -> Crafting -> Mining -> Way of the Earthmother. Mysticism first for temporary God King so it can support our floodplain towns. With our potential science rate, we should hit CoL at almost the same time, but be in a much better position than not taking God King first.
Aline, do you think you can put up a picture of our starting position with variant comments on the front page and a link to Q's first moves for the lurkers?
Anyways, here is my attempt at city plots. We should settle the flood towns first IMHO:
Our "rear" with production potential:
Orc watch posts:
Gold town with 2 hybrid towns:
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[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
the effect is negligible anyway 
I've tried... not worth much actually...
I think there's a key concept you're missing keivh. - overlap is NOT a bad thing.
Those sites you've marked share NO tiles (and in the process isolate a bunch of tiles) and this is a bad thing because practically we will not have the happy to work the full BFC until the game is looong decided (200T at least) meaning that for 90% of the game huge swathes of the empire will go unworked.
You mention a "crappy location" erm WTH? I'm not marking out cities because we HAVE to settle them, I'm marking out cities that will contribute fast (hence the overlap, to explain why the steal of the floodplain is positive id first point out that our city will be at the happy cap, with no need to grow. Whereas the second city will want to grow fast, so rather then waiting 5t for it to have a floodplain improved, we can start growth T1).
Sorry to be harsh, but by trying to eliminate overlap you've created a very inefficient dot map.
Lets start with the city 1. Not only does it have to wait 5t to improve the floodplain, but it also has no hills first ring, meaning it'll have to spend 40t on a monument, or wait for religions.
Gold site: firstly it orphans a bunch of tiles (yes only desert/plains but they're all 3/02 ipost CoL/ KotE.
Secondly 8FP is way, WAY to much food. At 5f, that's a 26 food surplus at size 8. That's NOT a good thing as we could split it up into 4 cities and actually make them viable to work missing/happy constrained tiles.
Too tired to do the rest, but just a general word about aristogratiansim - it favors ICS as it means new cities and otherwise non-viable sites can easily find food, while paying for themselves instantly through TR/aristo farm.tiles.
Finally on teching, myst does NOT pay for itself as it is plus 50% GOLD not COMMERCE. Moreover it not worth the turn of anarchy if were switching to aristo so soon.
Exploration also needs to go before CoL.
Sorry if this sounds critical BTW
Those sites you've marked share NO tiles (and in the process isolate a bunch of tiles) and this is a bad thing because practically we will not have the happy to work the full BFC until the game is looong decided (200T at least) meaning that for 90% of the game huge swathes of the empire will go unworked.
You mention a "crappy location" erm WTH? I'm not marking out cities because we HAVE to settle them, I'm marking out cities that will contribute fast (hence the overlap, to explain why the steal of the floodplain is positive id first point out that our city will be at the happy cap, with no need to grow. Whereas the second city will want to grow fast, so rather then waiting 5t for it to have a floodplain improved, we can start growth T1).
Sorry to be harsh, but by trying to eliminate overlap you've created a very inefficient dot map.
Lets start with the city 1. Not only does it have to wait 5t to improve the floodplain, but it also has no hills first ring, meaning it'll have to spend 40t on a monument, or wait for religions.
Gold site: firstly it orphans a bunch of tiles (yes only desert/plains but they're all 3/02 ipost CoL/ KotE.
Secondly 8FP is way, WAY to much food. At 5f, that's a 26 food surplus at size 8. That's NOT a good thing as we could split it up into 4 cities and actually make them viable to work missing/happy constrained tiles.
Too tired to do the rest, but just a general word about aristogratiansim - it favors ICS as it means new cities and otherwise non-viable sites can easily find food, while paying for themselves instantly through TR/aristo farm.tiles.
Finally on teching, myst does NOT pay for itself as it is plus 50% GOLD not COMMERCE. Moreover it not worth the turn of anarchy if were switching to aristo so soon.
Exploration also needs to go before CoL.
Sorry if this sounds critical BTW
You finish your games by turn 200? I usually go to 500 at least so I think looooong-term when planning cities.
Sorry if this sounds critical BTW
Its not a problem, as I said I am trying to understand how these strategies work.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
there's a big difference between when the game is decided and when it's finished. 
you can drag it on ad infinitum if wanted, but really once you gain the upper hand against the AI you've already won.
you can drag it on ad infinitum if wanted, but really once you gain the upper hand against the AI you've already won.Ok guys, done through to Turn 51. Took over on turn 31. My plan was to finish improving tiles, grow to 7 on warriors, start a settler. Teched education and started on Code of Laws--considered exploration and mysticism in the meantime, but figured it was better to get aristofarms started.
A farmer told Einion Logos that he got some good bounty. Einion Logos was hungry so he chose more food:
Einion Logos also prayed to Oghma and learned how to educate himself:
Worker was chilling out because he had no tiles to improve and he did not know how to explore and build roads. I prepositioned him to start on a cottage as soon as Educ was in. In hindsight, maybe I should have built the cottage on the river plains hill for +1
On Turn 51, Einion Logos is sad to learn that he is the most uncultured boor in the world:
All in all, a pretty uneventful set of turns. No moves on the exploration and diplomacy fronts. We have several warriors, a settler in production, and are ready to expand.
A farmer told Einion Logos that he got some good bounty. Einion Logos was hungry so he chose more food:
Einion Logos also prayed to Oghma and learned how to educate himself:
Worker was chilling out because he had no tiles to improve and he did not know how to explore and build roads. I prepositioned him to start on a cottage as soon as Educ was in. In hindsight, maybe I should have built the cottage on the river plains hill for +1
On Turn 51, Einion Logos is sad to learn that he is the most uncultured boor in the world:
All in all, a pretty uneventful set of turns. No moves on the exploration and diplomacy fronts. We have several warriors, a settler in production, and are ready to expand.
Yeah that's why I go for education - then I can road all the hills/forests and save worker turns late.
I have never played a game to T500, these days I normally quit when its utterly decided.
Yeah I would farm plains.
3/0/2 tiles are pretty good to grow a city/build workers/settlers on.
every commerce counts, too
Even when thinking long term, its actually the short term advantage of close cities that is the biggest boon.
I have never played a game to T500, these days I normally quit when its utterly decided.
Yeah I would farm plains.
3/0/2 tiles are pretty good to grow a city/build workers/settlers on.
every commerce counts, too
Even when thinking long term, its actually the short term advantage of close cities that is the biggest boon.
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