Agreed there. We need Knights/MDI to combat Carthage. If we can take down all 3 civs and settle their lands, we will be the top civ and victory should not be difficult. Even if the other AIs get ahead, as a bigger civ we will be able to equalize the Deity bonuses.
Succession game (Deity)
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I'm in turn 8 and all is well. Horses and silks connected, and we just discovered writing. Turns out this opens up a 6fer trade that will get us tech parity if it works. Here are the relevant screens from CivAssist:
Techs for us to trade are none, but this screen shows the worldwide monetary situation:
Techs we can buy:
Tech cost:
So we lack IW, Myst, Math, Phil, CoL and MM. Tuns out there are 6 civs that lack CoL and 1 also lacks Phil. We can start off buying CoL for gpt:
Arabs want 28gpt + 7g.
America wants 28gpt.
Netherlands wants 28 gt +3g.
India wants 27 gpt.
It is likely, given the price indications of CivAssist, that CoL will buy us the other 5 techs. So that's 6 for the price of 1. Yes it is a big gpt sum. But for 6 techs!!!
If we go lone scientist we make 31 gpt, which is fine, since min on republic or literature would be in the plans anyway I' d guess.
So, team, should I trade? I think yes. From which AI should I buy CoL?
Techs for us to trade are none, but this screen shows the worldwide monetary situation:
Spoiler :
Techs we can buy:
Spoiler :
Tech cost:
Spoiler :
So we lack IW, Myst, Math, Phil, CoL and MM. Tuns out there are 6 civs that lack CoL and 1 also lacks Phil. We can start off buying CoL for gpt:
Arabs want 28gpt + 7g.
America wants 28gpt.
Netherlands wants 28 gt +3g.
India wants 27 gpt.
It is likely, given the price indications of CivAssist, that CoL will buy us the other 5 techs. So that's 6 for the price of 1. Yes it is a big gpt sum. But for 6 techs!!!
If we go lone scientist we make 31 gpt, which is fine, since min on republic or literature would be in the plans anyway I' d guess.
So, team, should I trade? I think yes. From which AI should I buy CoL?
That is exactly what we needed!I don't particularly care who you buy CoL from, so long as it isn't Arabia or America. We will still be fighting them soon enough. But I think the Netherlands, since they are poorer than India, and further away. Then again, India wants less gpt.
Once you have CoL, it should be trivial to get the rest. The Vikings have only 4/6 techs, so they are prime for selling Philosophy to. In theory, you trade for Philosophy + other techs if you can, then broker CoL and Philosophy to different civs for the rest of the techs.
Nice find.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
VERY nice! This round of trading will put us in a much better position.
I'd buy CoL from the Netherlands to kick it all off; India is closer to us and (IIRC) stronger than the Netherlands.
I'd buy CoL from the Netherlands to kick it all off; India is closer to us and (IIRC) stronger than the Netherlands.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I've played. The tech situation has somewhat improved with a 7fer.
The turnlog.
Turn -1: 1275 BC
We are researching writing in 9 at -3gpt, 34g in the treasury. CiVAssist tells me that indeed everyone we know is up IW, Writing, Math and Myst, except Persia, who does not have Math yet. I try to get some cash for trading techs by the "banking trick", buying say 300 gold from India for gpt but they don't bite even if I raise the bid to 20 gpt. Later in the game I discover that somehow at this stage of the game the AIs want something like a 40% interest on loans. Why is that? From what I've read I always thougth it was around 10-15% with a clean rep.
Check all cities. Hlobane needs some growth applied, now only 1sfpt. Isandlwana growth in 1 but worker in 2, MM to both in 1, reassign a wheat to Ulundi, which will now grow in 1.
IBT
Zimbabwe: impi -> impi
Bapedi: impi -> impi
Isandlwana: worker -> impi
Then it's Wonder time:
ToA is being build by: Rome, Egypt, Persia.
Mom is being build by: America, Egypt, India, Carhage.
Oracle is being build by: Rome.
And last but not least: SoZ is being build by Arabia in Kufah!. Yay! The Arabs are preparing a prize for us when we conquer Kufah!
Turn 0: 1250 BC
We are doing -4gpt now. But I can lower the lux slider to 20%, after MMing Mpondo for happiness by assigning the fish (rax still in 1). This gives +1gpt.
IBT
Mpondo: rax -> impi.
Egypt are also starting SoZ.
I was being too optimistic about the Arabs building it for us. I later realize that "loosing" SoZ to a cascade is also a realistic option.
Turn 1: 1225 BC
Check cities, possible trades, workers, move scouts, nothing special.
IBT
Hlobane: impi -> archer.
Mecca completes Oracle. A lot of wonder build switches. The most important one is the message that Egypt are now aslo building SoZ, which they already were doing last turn, so this must be a switch form the Oracle. Cascade? Not yet. Well, Carths complete GLH.
Turn 2: 1200 BC - zzz.
IBT - zzz
Turn 3: 1175 BC
Mainly routine checks. Zimbabwe is about to grow but will also complete impi on IBT, so no happiness issue.
IBT
Zimbabwe: impi -> archer.
Turn 4: 1150 BC
Mpondo will grow and riot next IBT, hire a geek there.
IBT
Horses connected!
Scandinavia demands 20g. I cave.
Ulundi produces settler (on growth to 3) -> horse.
Bapid: impi -> woker (completes on growth to 4).
Move impi from Bapedi to Mpondo for happiness. Sorry, should have done this last turn, didn't realize impi have movement 2. I never, like never never, play the Zulu.
Turn 5: 1225 BC
Switch archer build in Zimbabwe to horse.
Can get 1 turn off writing (3 -> 2 turns) by moving sci slider to 80%. Scouting impi doscivers a small Scandinavian stack (2 archers and a warrior) near Hlobane.
IBT
Silks connected
Turn 6: 1100 BC
Scandinavian stack moves towards Hlobane. For this reason I do not change the archer build to horse but let it complete in 1, just in case.
Can lower lux slider to 10%.
Swazi founded -> rax.
Science back to 70% - writing still in 1.
IBT
Writing comes in.
Hlobane archer -> horse.
Isandlwana rax -> horse
Turn 7: 1075 BC
Discover the possible 6fer trade as described in post 102. Stop and consult team. Then make the deals which turn out to be a 7fer since polytheism is also around.
Dutch: CoL for 28gpt + 3g.
Rome: Phil +117g for CoL.
Scandinavia: MM + 83g for CoL +Phil.
Carthage: spices, Myst , 55g for CoL.
Portugal: Poly for CoL + 40g.
Persai: IW for Col + 55g.
Egypt: Math + 5g for CoL.
That's 7 techs! This is without a doubt the best deal I ever made. On emperor I am just never that far behind.
Tech parity now? No! The Dutch (only) have construction; The Ports and the Arabs (only) have monarchy. Both are too expensive for us (in the order of 900 - 1000 gold).
Set research to lone scientist on republic. I hesitated between republic and literature, but choose republic because if that fails to be of trade value it will at least give us the most expensive AA tech.
Since we now import spices from the Carths (they put that on the table on their own accord) the lux slider can go to 0%.
We have some 180 cash now so we are in for a demand. I decide to buy some embassies, with two likely allies in our Arab and American wars to come, the Romans and the Scandinavians. Screenies below.
IBT
Zimbabwe horse -> settler (will complete on growth to 6)
Bapedi worker -> horse.
Arabs establish an embassy with us.
Portugal completes MoM. No cascade.
Turn 8: 1050 BC - zzz.
IBT
Mpondo impi -> worker.
Ngome walls -> rax.
Here comes the cascade:
Rome is building GW.
Arabs build HG.
Egypt competes ToA.
Duth are building GW and complete it.
India are building HG and compete it.
Turn 9: 1025 BC - zzz
IBT - zzz
Turn 10: 1000 BC - mover workers, not much.
Hand off notes: some of our larger cities should probably build another settler or 2 after the next builds complete.
Construction and Monarchy are around but not widely spread yet but they are still far too expensive for us. Maybe we can make loans but I even doubt if there is enough money in the market to buy either tech.
Some screenies:
Rome:
Trondheim:
The save:
The turnlog.
Turn -1: 1275 BC
We are researching writing in 9 at -3gpt, 34g in the treasury. CiVAssist tells me that indeed everyone we know is up IW, Writing, Math and Myst, except Persia, who does not have Math yet. I try to get some cash for trading techs by the "banking trick", buying say 300 gold from India for gpt but they don't bite even if I raise the bid to 20 gpt. Later in the game I discover that somehow at this stage of the game the AIs want something like a 40% interest on loans. Why is that? From what I've read I always thougth it was around 10-15% with a clean rep.
Check all cities. Hlobane needs some growth applied, now only 1sfpt. Isandlwana growth in 1 but worker in 2, MM to both in 1, reassign a wheat to Ulundi, which will now grow in 1.
IBT
Zimbabwe: impi -> impi
Bapedi: impi -> impi
Isandlwana: worker -> impi
Then it's Wonder time:
ToA is being build by: Rome, Egypt, Persia.
Mom is being build by: America, Egypt, India, Carhage.
Oracle is being build by: Rome.
And last but not least: SoZ is being build by Arabia in Kufah!. Yay! The Arabs are preparing a prize for us when we conquer Kufah!
Turn 0: 1250 BC
We are doing -4gpt now. But I can lower the lux slider to 20%, after MMing Mpondo for happiness by assigning the fish (rax still in 1). This gives +1gpt.
IBT
Mpondo: rax -> impi.
Egypt are also starting SoZ.
I was being too optimistic about the Arabs building it for us. I later realize that "loosing" SoZ to a cascade is also a realistic option.Turn 1: 1225 BC
Check cities, possible trades, workers, move scouts, nothing special.
IBT
Hlobane: impi -> archer.
Mecca completes Oracle. A lot of wonder build switches. The most important one is the message that Egypt are now aslo building SoZ, which they already were doing last turn, so this must be a switch form the Oracle. Cascade? Not yet. Well, Carths complete GLH.
Turn 2: 1200 BC - zzz.
IBT - zzz
Turn 3: 1175 BC
Mainly routine checks. Zimbabwe is about to grow but will also complete impi on IBT, so no happiness issue.
IBT
Zimbabwe: impi -> archer.
Turn 4: 1150 BC
Mpondo will grow and riot next IBT, hire a geek there.
IBT
Horses connected!
Scandinavia demands 20g. I cave.
Ulundi produces settler (on growth to 3) -> horse.
Bapid: impi -> woker (completes on growth to 4).
Move impi from Bapedi to Mpondo for happiness. Sorry, should have done this last turn, didn't realize impi have movement 2. I never, like never never, play the Zulu.
Turn 5: 1225 BC
Switch archer build in Zimbabwe to horse.
Can get 1 turn off writing (3 -> 2 turns) by moving sci slider to 80%. Scouting impi doscivers a small Scandinavian stack (2 archers and a warrior) near Hlobane.
IBT
Silks connected
Turn 6: 1100 BC
Scandinavian stack moves towards Hlobane. For this reason I do not change the archer build to horse but let it complete in 1, just in case.
Can lower lux slider to 10%.
Swazi founded -> rax.
Science back to 70% - writing still in 1.
IBT
Writing comes in.
Hlobane archer -> horse.
Isandlwana rax -> horse
Turn 7: 1075 BC
Discover the possible 6fer trade as described in post 102. Stop and consult team. Then make the deals which turn out to be a 7fer since polytheism is also around.
Dutch: CoL for 28gpt + 3g.
Rome: Phil +117g for CoL.
Scandinavia: MM + 83g for CoL +Phil.
Carthage: spices, Myst , 55g for CoL.
Portugal: Poly for CoL + 40g.
Persai: IW for Col + 55g.
Egypt: Math + 5g for CoL.
That's 7 techs! This is without a doubt the best deal I ever made. On emperor I am just never that far behind.
Tech parity now? No! The Dutch (only) have construction; The Ports and the Arabs (only) have monarchy. Both are too expensive for us (in the order of 900 - 1000 gold).
Set research to lone scientist on republic. I hesitated between republic and literature, but choose republic because if that fails to be of trade value it will at least give us the most expensive AA tech.
Since we now import spices from the Carths (they put that on the table on their own accord) the lux slider can go to 0%.
We have some 180 cash now so we are in for a demand. I decide to buy some embassies, with two likely allies in our Arab and American wars to come, the Romans and the Scandinavians. Screenies below.
IBT
Zimbabwe horse -> settler (will complete on growth to 6)
Bapedi worker -> horse.
Arabs establish an embassy with us.
Portugal completes MoM. No cascade.
Turn 8: 1050 BC - zzz.
IBT
Mpondo impi -> worker.
Ngome walls -> rax.
Here comes the cascade:
Rome is building GW.
Arabs build HG.
Egypt competes ToA.
Duth are building GW and complete it.
India are building HG and compete it.
Turn 9: 1025 BC - zzz
IBT - zzz
Turn 10: 1000 BC - mover workers, not much.
Hand off notes: some of our larger cities should probably build another settler or 2 after the next builds complete.
Construction and Monarchy are around but not widely spread yet but they are still far too expensive for us. Maybe we can make loans but I even doubt if there is enough money in the market to buy either tech.
Some screenies:
Rome:
Spoiler :
Trondheim:
Spoiler :
The save:
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I don't understand what you mean.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
on the 7 way trade. I am learning the art of trading in my zero-science practice game. The most difficult ones to get are governments, Republic and Feudalism are the ones that really cost both arms and a leg. I managed a great trade when I finally scraped the cash together to buy Republic, which got me Construction, Currency and Monarchy. The next round got me Monotheism, which got me Engineering, which finally got me Feudalism. Feudalism got me Invention. Trading is definitely an art, and CivAssist 2 is a huge help. I will download the save, and this will be my "got it" What's our war timetable? When do we launch?
Now that we are caught up in tech, it is not as urgent. However, we can't lazy around. We have to attack before they get Pikemen. I still think about the same force is appropriate: 4 to 6 impi, 8 to 10 horsemen.
BTW, the Carthaginian city of Cadiz has horses, iron, and gems. Even more frustrating now that they beat us to the site.
Just play by feel.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Things just changed. Kufah finished the SoZ and in a short time they will have AC's. So we need to get the attack stack ready. I think we could position our troops to the north of Kufah unless they build a city there too, theres an Arab settler on the way. I think we are still in dire straits because of the AI towns hemming us in.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I have finished my turns, as noted in the turn-log, I was too chicken to declare war on the Arabs. I think we need more Impis to survive counter-attacks, but we may have enough to take Kufah and kill their one AC. How long we keep it is another matter. That will be in the hands of the next general.
This time, I didn't forget the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/SGDeity_Overseer__750_BC.SAV
Spoiler :
This time, I didn't forget the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/SGDeity_Overseer__750_BC.SAV
Two AW turnsets today and Cotm 43 (sid) and you leave me to do the war? How generous. Pre-turn: Why is there an entertainer at Bapedi? I add a forest to make the Impi go from 2 to 1... Isandhlwana: change the grassland worker to a forest. Growth was in 18 turns and horseman in 2, now 0 growth and horseman in 1. I note that a lot of people are hitting the MA.
IT: Dutch swordsmen and archer stacks up north seem to have a purpose in their direction; I'm not sure who they are at war with. Portugal and America sign a peace treaty. Arabic troops seem to be moving towards America??
730 BC: Bapedi Impi -> Horseman. Isandhlwana Horseman -> Horseman. I'm a little worried about cities in the west flipping to Carthage. Nothing I can do at this time about that, so moving on... I let the mine finish at Ngome, and one more horseman to position itself, so I decide to wait one more turn. I also figure out no one like Portugal. The Dutch, Vikings, and Arabians all seem to be at war with them...that's what you get for being in the middle of a Deity pangaea map. :lol;
I switch the forest at Bapedi to a grassland tile and start cutting the forest (timing the cut for no shield waste -- 4 turn horseman).
IT: A lot of AI moves I'd rather not recount. However, the Arabic forces heading north through the Americans to get to Portugal is excellent news. Their AC is away from home.
710 BC: Capture Kufah with the second to last horseman. They had four defending spears, but a lot of the horsemen retreated. Lose 0 horsemen though.
Unfortunately, 5 resisters...so it is a risk to keep it. Screw it at this point...we need the SoZ, we need that city, or it's the end. One impi goes to cover the injured horseman stack, while the other goes with two horsemen into Kufah.
Move an impi from Ngome to cover the horses.
(Combat: 4-0)
IT: Treated to an 'epic' battle in the north between stacks of Deity AI. Unclear what this will mean for us in the long run. (If there still is an 'us'!!) The tech pace will slow down from all this war, but some civs will get stronger... Some Arabic troops move near Kufah, but none attack it, or my stack.
690 BC: Zimbabwe Settler -> Catapult. Ulundi Impi -> Catapult. We get an AC from the SoZ. One resister is quelled. Hlobane Horseman -> Horseman. Intombe riots??? Not sure why, I didn't catch that. Regardless, fixed. Mapstat now gives a '2 to 6 percent chance' of Kufah flipping. To eliminate flip risk, we need 40 to 81 troops. Anyone got that? I move my much more meager 8 troops in Kufah. Kill an Arabic archer with the AC, AC promotes.
(Combat: 5-0)
IT: Persia demands 22 gold, cave. Arabic horseman loses against our Impi in Kufah. We enter a golden age! (Despotic, but hey, who cares at this point...)
Then, terrible news...
Does it go without saying to say this is a crushing blow?
We all wanted that city a little too badly.
Indeed, the issue was in the end not the Arabic attacks (we would have easily survived those), but the sheer flip risk. We really just needed this one more turn so our troops could heal, as if I moved the stack back to Ngome, they would have crushed the Impis in Kufah without a means to counter-attack. I thought with 2 to 6 percent odds, it was worth taking the one turn risk, but apparently, my luck has run out here...
The only way would have been to raze Kufah, but even then, we would be defending in Ngome, they would replace Kufah with another city, and then we would have to mount another attack somehow with our GA.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Shaka_of_the_Zulu_670_BC.SAV
IT: Dutch swordsmen and archer stacks up north seem to have a purpose in their direction; I'm not sure who they are at war with. Portugal and America sign a peace treaty. Arabic troops seem to be moving towards America??
730 BC: Bapedi Impi -> Horseman. Isandhlwana Horseman -> Horseman. I'm a little worried about cities in the west flipping to Carthage. Nothing I can do at this time about that, so moving on... I let the mine finish at Ngome, and one more horseman to position itself, so I decide to wait one more turn. I also figure out no one like Portugal. The Dutch, Vikings, and Arabians all seem to be at war with them...that's what you get for being in the middle of a Deity pangaea map. :lol;
I switch the forest at Bapedi to a grassland tile and start cutting the forest (timing the cut for no shield waste -- 4 turn horseman).
IT: A lot of AI moves I'd rather not recount. However, the Arabic forces heading north through the Americans to get to Portugal is excellent news. Their AC is away from home.
710 BC: Capture Kufah with the second to last horseman. They had four defending spears, but a lot of the horsemen retreated. Lose 0 horsemen though.
Unfortunately, 5 resisters...so it is a risk to keep it. Screw it at this point...we need the SoZ, we need that city, or it's the end. One impi goes to cover the injured horseman stack, while the other goes with two horsemen into Kufah.
Move an impi from Ngome to cover the horses.
(Combat: 4-0)
IT: Treated to an 'epic' battle in the north between stacks of Deity AI. Unclear what this will mean for us in the long run. (If there still is an 'us'!!) The tech pace will slow down from all this war, but some civs will get stronger... Some Arabic troops move near Kufah, but none attack it, or my stack.
690 BC: Zimbabwe Settler -> Catapult. Ulundi Impi -> Catapult. We get an AC from the SoZ. One resister is quelled. Hlobane Horseman -> Horseman. Intombe riots??? Not sure why, I didn't catch that. Regardless, fixed. Mapstat now gives a '2 to 6 percent chance' of Kufah flipping. To eliminate flip risk, we need 40 to 81 troops. Anyone got that? I move my much more meager 8 troops in Kufah. Kill an Arabic archer with the AC, AC promotes.
(Combat: 5-0)
IT: Persia demands 22 gold, cave. Arabic horseman loses against our Impi in Kufah. We enter a golden age! (Despotic, but hey, who cares at this point...)
Then, terrible news...
Does it go without saying to say this is a crushing blow?
We all wanted that city a little too badly.
Indeed, the issue was in the end not the Arabic attacks (we would have easily survived those), but the sheer flip risk. We really just needed this one more turn so our troops could heal, as if I moved the stack back to Ngome, they would have crushed the Impis in Kufah without a means to counter-attack. I thought with 2 to 6 percent odds, it was worth taking the one turn risk, but apparently, my luck has run out here...
The only way would have been to raze Kufah, but even then, we would be defending in Ngome, they would replace Kufah with another city, and then we would have to mount another attack somehow with our GA.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Shaka_of_the_Zulu_670_BC.SAV
ThinkTank
RL Addict
That is basically game over I guess. 
Roll a new one?
Roll a new one?
Prof. Yaffle
Chieftain
lurker's comment: Ouch, the looks very tricky now! In this situation would you try to hang on for peace, regroup and re-attack or push on as you are?
Agreed there...
I'm willing to roll again. If anyone else is in, tell me.
If so, what settings do you want? Same level? Turn it down to Demigod? Keep with the Pangaea? Let me know.
I really think we can handle Deity, but this game was very hard the whole way. That 7fer was the only bright light in what was otherwise a game of letdowns.
I'm willing to roll again. If anyone else is in, tell me.
If so, what settings do you want? Same level? Turn it down to Demigod? Keep with the Pangaea? Let me know.
I really think we can handle Deity, but this game was very hard the whole way. That 7fer was the only bright light in what was otherwise a game of letdowns.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I'm in. I'd say deity again. There's only one way to beat a level and that is play it. And if needs be, play it again. I've heard that said before on this forum but that 7fer made me realize how true that is since that would typically never happen on emperor. If we do want to allow us some better "tools" I would vote for an agri or industrious civ.
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