Suggestions and requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Sadly enough, I haven't yet been able to play the latest version yet because of some internet problems, but the civic rework seems great.
This might be odd coming from me, but I'm really glad you broke the city states exploit. I hope, however, that the absence of the 'seven land tile limit' in the history text file doesn't mean it has been removed, otherwise that'd could cause some trouble.
Some comments: (which might be completely wrong since I haven't played yet)
Environmentalism still seems very underpowered compared to Central Planning, especially now that corporations work with both. I'd suggest to introduce a food bonus for the fitting improvements, to match the food bonus of central planning to workshops and watermills. A bonus to scientists might also be fitting with the civic.
I might be wrong on this, but capitalism and industrialism are a bit awkwardly named, considering how closely the two are linked in the west.
Representation is a tad weak. I have no idea how to improve it, though. Maybe 1 free specialist per 10/12/14 population, rounding up?
Scholasticism doesn't really seem to be competitive with OR either. I think a bonus to monasteries might be fitting here. What about 2 science (the preservation of classical works by Islamic and Christian monasteries)?
This might be odd coming from me, but I'm really glad you broke the city states exploit. I hope, however, that the absence of the 'seven land tile limit' in the history text file doesn't mean it has been removed, otherwise that'd could cause some trouble.
Some comments: (which might be completely wrong since I haven't played yet)
Environmentalism still seems very underpowered compared to Central Planning, especially now that corporations work with both. I'd suggest to introduce a food bonus for the fitting improvements, to match the food bonus of central planning to workshops and watermills. A bonus to scientists might also be fitting with the civic.
I might be wrong on this, but capitalism and industrialism are a bit awkwardly named, considering how closely the two are linked in the west.
Representation is a tad weak. I have no idea how to improve it, though. Maybe 1 free specialist per 10/12/14 population, rounding up?
Scholasticism doesn't really seem to be competitive with OR either. I think a bonus to monasteries might be fitting here. What about 2 science (the preservation of classical works by Islamic and Christian monasteries)?
Ah, that explains things. I'll fix that.
Yeah, the rules are the same. But what exactly did I fix?
Central Planning still has the one corporation per city limit, and I plan to further rework corporations to restore some balance there.
I think it's best not to think in Marxian terms here. Capitalism mainly refers to financial capitalism and in modern terms could be interpreted more as service-oriented economies. As said earlier, Industrialism would mean something more like a heavy-industry oriented economy. Of course the terms are not always 100% applicable but this is hard to avoid when the civics are meant to be as broad as possible.
In the light of recent comments I'll probably move Industrialism to Steel, by the way.
Really? I thought one free specialist is rather strong, especially now that the effect comes without drawbacks and isn't in the strong economy column.
Or I increase its value to the old +35%.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Ah, that explains things. I'll fix that.
Yeah, the rules are the same. But what exactly did I fix?
Mainly moving the Representation effect to a tech where it won't have such a huge impact anymore.
Ah, great.
Putting Industrialism before Capitalism (or at least closer to it) fits with the way you describe it, although capitalism still comes way too early in that case. Maybe move it to Assembly Line (Fordism)? That'd encourage a focus on workshops in the Industrial era and make cottages (representing exponential population growth) more something for the late Industrial and Modern era.
My personal preference would be to run Absolutism in all cases where I'm not running Egalitarianism, but for large empires it might be viable. However, IIRC, there's a stability penalty for large empires running Representation.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
I think linking Scholasticism with Monasteries is a good idea because Monasteries obsolete with Scientific Method. If Scholasticism is not associated with Monasteries it'd be either too weak (at its current 25%) for earlier civs like Byzantium, or too good (at its original 35%) for later civs like Prussia. I suggest
Scholasticism
+25% Great Person birth rate in cities with your state religion
+2
from Catholic, Orthodox, Islamic, Buddhist, and Confucian Monasteries.
Protestant, Hindu, and Taoist Monasteries should not provide the same bonus for reasons of balance and realism.
Scholasticism
+25% Great Person birth rate in cities with your state religion
+2
from Catholic, Orthodox, Islamic, Buddhist, and Confucian Monasteries.Protestant, Hindu, and Taoist Monasteries should not provide the same bonus for reasons of balance and realism.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Other comments Re: Civics:
- Warrior Code's -50% War
is overpowered for a civic with No Upkeep. Suggest lowering this to -33% and giving it Low or Medium Upkeep.
You need to be very careful about which civic has No Upkeep, because this trait alone makes the civic very desirable in the late game when civic Upkeep goes up into astronomical numbers. If a civic is meant to be historical rather than modern it must not have No Upkeep.
- Guilds. +
from Specialists should be capped, at say +5. Otherwise this civic is too abusive in the late game.
- Free Market should have No Upkeep in its current form. Otherwise it's not worth it compared to Mercantilism.
- Dynasticism's
cap at 3 is a bit too low, making it less competitive vs. Theocracy. Suggest increasing this cap to 4 or 5 while lowering Totalitarianism's bonus accordingly.
- Environmentalism is still too weak. Suggestions:
-- +
bonus to Forest Preserve should be +4. And on top of that Forest Preserve should receive 1 extra by default (without Environmentalism). Even then Forest Preserve is inferior to Watermills and Villages/Towns but it won't be completely worthless.
-- An increase in the spread rate of Forests, possibly allowing Forests to spread onto existing Improvements (such as Towns and Farms). How else is late game Germany supposed to cover itself with Forests?
- Warrior Code's -50% War
is overpowered for a civic with No Upkeep. Suggest lowering this to -33% and giving it Low or Medium Upkeep. You need to be very careful about which civic has No Upkeep, because this trait alone makes the civic very desirable in the late game when civic Upkeep goes up into astronomical numbers. If a civic is meant to be historical rather than modern it must not have No Upkeep.
- Guilds. +
from Specialists should be capped, at say +5. Otherwise this civic is too abusive in the late game.- Free Market should have No Upkeep in its current form. Otherwise it's not worth it compared to Mercantilism.
- Dynasticism's
cap at 3 is a bit too low, making it less competitive vs. Theocracy. Suggest increasing this cap to 4 or 5 while lowering Totalitarianism's bonus accordingly.- Environmentalism is still too weak. Suggestions:
-- +
bonus to Forest Preserve should be +4. And on top of that Forest Preserve should receive 1 extra by default (without Environmentalism). Even then Forest Preserve is inferior to Watermills and Villages/Towns but it won't be completely worthless.-- An increase in the spread rate of Forests, possibly allowing Forests to spread onto existing Improvements (such as Towns and Farms). How else is late game Germany supposed to cover itself with Forests?
blizzrd
Micromanager
It is strong.
I would still strongly prefer OR in that case.
There was, but I believe it will be gone in 1.12.
Confirmed to be gone. The only civics with expansion effects now are:
- City States: more penalties for cities outside of your core
- Totalitarianism: more penalties for cities in your historical area, less penalties for conquered cities
- City States: more penalties for cities outside of your core
- Totalitarianism: more penalties for cities in your historical area, less penalties for conquered cities
yurisusuki
Hope, Faith and love
SO..we don't have more a civic to help with expansion?
For example: if i want a domination victory..its possible doing this without imperialism?
For example: if i want a domination victory..its possible doing this without imperialism?
blizzrd
Micromanager
Yes. Stability will be different... stay tuned.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
This would make it a terrible civic for Russia.
I won't design the stability mechanic with Domination in mind, so I don't know how it's going to turn out (heck, the current numbers are mostly pulled from thin air as well so I really can't say anything without observing it in action).
In general, expansion stability will be population driven instead of territory driven now. Expansion by conquest is treated much more harshly than expansion by colonization.
In general, expansion stability will be population driven instead of territory driven now. Expansion by conquest is treated much more harshly than expansion by colonization.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
What I meant is most of Russia's cities will be Historical for them, and not conquered.
This is true whether you're playing for Domination or not. It's just a fact about Russia.
It'd be strange for Russia to receive the largest Stability penalty for running Totalitarianism among all civilizations.
This is true whether you're playing for Domination or not. It's just a fact about Russia.
It'd be strange for Russia to receive the largest Stability penalty for running Totalitarianism among all civilizations.
therox
Hydralisk
Maybe Totalitarianism could have the Imperialism effects , Less penalty towards non-historical areas
Free Market seems pretty underpowered... could it get the +25% from trade back from Mercantilism, and have Mercantilism instead have no trade routes in colonies? This makes Mercantilism ideal for small but growing empires, while making it less effective later.
"Industrialism" could be changed to "Corporatism" and be the Fascist civic. It could also increase the spread of corporations. It seems a little weird that Fascist states can't have a planned economy, because they certainly did. This may be a good way to solve that.
"Industrialism" could be changed to "Corporatism" and be the Fascist civic. It could also increase the spread of corporations. It seems a little weird that Fascist states can't have a planned economy, because they certainly did. This may be a good way to solve that.
yurisusuki
Hope, Faith and love
I think is everything good with free market..don't forget the Great Depression..that %&¨$ is one of most negative efects in stability..
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
I hope you mean no foreign trade routes in colonies.
If so, I think this is a good idea.
SheaferDaDawg
Intelligent Canine
I also support this idea, provided that it is indeed no foreign trade routes. However, I also think that some of this discussion seems a little premature, if the actual changes have yet to be made and the effect observed.
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