Bair_the_Normal
転輪聖王
Turkestan before Kiev pls.
Suggestions and requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
You could say almost exactly the same about Greece and yet its respawn exists (rightfully so). Modern Ukraine claims direct continuity with the medieval Kievan polity so this is not a stretch in any way.
Minimal overlap is not a concern to me. Several decent cities can reach the iron, including Caricyn/Stalingrad/Volgograd.
leader Tamerlane
the capital Samarkand?
in my opinion best to just create a golden horde
I'm unfamiliar with this terminology, care to elaborate?
Askold was prince of Kiev lost to Oleg (Oleg -can call it a nanny Prince Igor Ruricovich) with this begins the story of Kievan Rus
Oleg moved the capital from Novgorod to Kiev
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
As far as I can tell, he is referring to Askold and Oleg. Since the Kievan Rus' evolved from Novgorod, it is not so much of a state of Kiev, but of Novgorod. The state that is more Kievan (and therefore Ukrainian) is that of Askold and Dir, which was incorporated into Novgorod before it became the center of what is Kievan Rus'.
In any case, I think if they make it in, Kiev needs to have the potential to become the main Russian civilization and colonize Siberia, etc. Although most of the time this would not happen, I think it prevents a rebirth from taking place correctly, except...
Rebirth area is separate from flip/core area, isn't it? Then one could place the rebirth early date late enough, say 1850 or 1900 so that Muscovy would have already colonized Siberia, and have it only flip Kiev and potentially Lviv (horrible city that the AI has a sick obsession with, though I can make a long list of these). All territory would be in core despite most of the core being taken up by Russia, so it would be stable expansion-wise. I really need to be less forgetful about game mechanics.
Although, in general I can't really see that happening because:
1. Later Russia is generally not unstable, I think this is something to think about in later versions with civic switches, probably the same version as revised flip mechanics.
2. You probably are not going to add Kievan Rus', no matter how much it is discussed to death.
Well, yes it of Rurikovich
I just looked in books where they write that Ukrainians Askold himself well established Kiev principality that he went to Byzantium and knocked profitable contracts for merchants
So it's basically a question of excluding Novgorod because it does not fit with what is currently understood as Ruthenian territory? Ugh, mapping nationalism to dynastic politics always makes my head hurt.
Not sure if an alternate Kievan state would have colonized Siberia.
I think if the Kievan rebirth is Ukraine then it should respawn in a way that models its historical independence *carefully avoids talking about exact territories* So contingent on the instability of whoever controls Kiev and its surroundings.
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
Mine too, and especially since I had no idea what Askold and Oleg were until about 2 minutes before I wrote that post. Funny what I get to learn about because of this forum.
I'm not sure if it would have either, but in this case my philosophy is that somebody needs to, and they would fit the best.
Manuss
Sleeping man
Why mongols start without horseback riding? That does not make any sense.
Publicola
King
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 759
I think I can answer this one.
There is a vast difference between Iran and Iraq. Iran is Persian in culture, markedly distinct from the Arab culture that pervades much of the rest of the Middle East. Iraq is a polity, its borders formed largely ad hoc by British and French politicians splitting up the former Ottoman Empire. Iraq was in fact designed to be ungovernable, so it could not muster the independent political will to resist its colonial overseers, and it was only recently that they began to develop a sense of national self (though with ISIS and the rise of an independent Kurdistan, that may soon change).
South Africa is the same -- it's an independent polity, but not one with a particularly distinct culture or impact on civilized history. It'd be best represented as either a British colony or as an independent civ, unless we're going with a kitchen-sink approach.
Anyway, hope that explains why Arabia and Iran/Persia are playable in DoC, but Iraq is not. While there is room for it in the form of a Babylonian respawn, I can't think of any Middle Eastern civ that would deserve it. Well, maybe Israel, but I'm not sure I want to touch that one with a ten-foot pole.
Politically I would. Gameplay and map size are the reasons here.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
I would guess that modern Iraq, like its UN neighbours Ireland and Israel, are too small in map and time terms to be of great gameplay interest.
ales_
Heir
Are you once again just talking about things?
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
Well, if he can actually get this multi-threading thing going, performance isn't quite as much of a issue for most...
On the other hand, if he either doesn't have time to work on the mod (though based on his claimed hours of operation that would take a lot) or is trying to do something big that doesn't require forum input, it is much easier to make short semi-cryptic statements that are likely to start discussions that keep the forum-goers active and oblivious as he works.
On the other hand, if he either doesn't have time to work on the mod (though based on his claimed hours of operation that would take a lot) or is trying to do something big that doesn't require forum input, it is much easier to make short semi-cryptic statements that are likely to start discussions that keep the forum-goers active and oblivious as he works.
Conspiracy theories abound
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