Suggestions and Requests

[Imperator Knoedel]

I wasn't aware of that. Then it can be done. But is there any hint on this ingame or in the civipedia? And does it only work for the vikings (or if the player is the vikings) or for all civs?

I think it only applies to human player Vikings for maximum gameyness.

 

[cudfather]

Just noticed this: why isn't the Russian name as Mongolian vassal "the Golden Horde"?

 

[ezzlar]

Mercenary civic gives wall building bonus. I figure that the mercs would hang out at the city barracks, thus encouring building one.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Mercenary civic gives wall building bonus. I figure that the mercs would hang out at the city barracks, thus encouring building one.

Leoreth said this is supposed to represent Medieval Italy where cities depended on walls and mercenaries for their protection.

 

[Civciv5]

-Reduce/remove the stability penalty for "bad relations" in the modern day age.
After the United Nations is built, it causes my civilization to experience -12 stability because of "bad relations"
This is quite silly, just because I have bad relations with Mali or Portugal shouldn't make my civ collapse.
Also, shouldn't Canada be "Republic of Canada" when it switches to a republic?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I have an interesting suggestion for those who like the sandbox kind of style.

First of all, rip me, I played as the Indus People (the 3000 BC one) and managed to get to almost Renaissance. Then I collapsed (not sure why I was given a sudden -25 Overextension instability)

And eventually the nation collappsed completely.

But.. I kinda wanted to play more.I lost the game but I kinda wish that I could continue the game as another civ (preferably the Mughals) and just go from there, or even ressurrect it at one point.

You could have it so that you can't win in any means if you play a resurrected nation but it would be fun to see INdia come back to life and be able to play from 3000 BC until the end of 2050 AD.

 

[sercer88]

That's a good idea.
I always found the option to switch to another civ while your current civ is still alive to be a little bit weird. But if you could switch after your starting civ was defeated then THAT would be an option I would consider using.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Throwing some ideas around:

Ideologies. The current system of civics doesn't really capture them adequately. Think about China and Saudi Arabia, Central Planning, yadda yadda I'm sure I wrote a wall of text about it somewhere already.

What I'm thinking about would be a mechanic that's pretty much exactly how religions work, but in addition to, not instead of the current religions mechanic. You know Road to War? That's pretty much what I envision.

Three Ideologies, but unlike Religions they all have unique effects:

Liberalism:
represents democratic/republican capitalism like North America and western Europe
Founded by first to discover Democracy (Liberalism as a tech is imo too early)
Effects for cities it is in:
*+5 Unhappiness
*+1 Culture
*+1 Great People Points (Great Statesman)
*+2 Commerce
*+1 Happiness from Broadcast Tower, University, Courthouse

Socialism/Marxism/Communism:
represents regimes that at least pay lip service to Marx' teachings, like Soviet Union and China
Founded by first to discover Communism
Effects for cities it is in:
*+5 Unhappiness
*+1 Culture
*+1 Production
*+2 Research
*+1 Happiness from Public Transportation, Hospital, Factory

Fascism/Authoritarianism:
represents authoritarian capitalism like Nazi Germany and Latin American dictatorships
Founded by first to discover Fascism
Effects for cities it is in:
*+5 Unhappiness
*+1 Culture
*+2XP for units
*+10% Military Unit Production
*+1 Happiness from Security Bureau, Intelligence Agency, Jail

Adopting a state ideology will give you doubled effects for it and +2 Happiness for it, so you will break even happiness wise if you build all three buildings the respective ideology gives happiness for. You definitely want to remove competing ideologies with an inquisitor like unit because otherwise you will drown in unhappiness and instability.

The following civics will be adjusted:

Autocracy: +1 Happiness from State Ideology, +1 Unhappiness from non State Ideology, +1 Unhappiness from Liberalism
Republic: +1 Happiness from Liberalism
Totalitarianism: +2 Happiness from State Ideology, doubled effects of State Ideology, +4 Unhappiness from non State Ideology, +2 Unhappiness from Liberalism
Egalitarianism: +2 Unhappiness from Fascism/Authoritarianism
Capitalism: +4 Unhappiness from Socialism/Marxism/Communism
Public Welfare: +1 Happiness from Socialism/Marxism/Communism
Free Market: +2 Happiness from Liberalism, +4 Unhappiness from Socialism/Marxism/Communism
Central Planning: +2 Happiness from Socialism/Marxism/Communism, +2 Unhappiness from Liberalism
Fanaticism: +2 Unhappiness from Liberalism, Socialism/Marxism/Communism
Secularism: +1 Happiness from Liberalism, +2 Happiness from Socialism/Marxism/Communism
Standing Army: +1 Happiness from Fascism/Authoritarianism

Basically the idea is that you can theoretically run any civic with any ideology, (so China can adopt Capitalism and still call itself communist) but some combinations give you a lot of unhappiness. Also you get unhappiness from non state ideologies, especially with Autocracy and Totalitarianism. They should spread similar to religions, with some regions preferred for natural spread, like Western Europe and North America for Liberalism, Russia and China for Marxism etc.

The Russian UHV would consider civs running the appropriate ideology as communist, regardless of civics.

Also, Unique Ideological Victories! Spread freedom! Make the world kneel before your Great Leader! Liberate the Proletariat!

Thoughts?

 

[ales_]

Reminds me very much Civilization V. Besides, now I have the feeling that every change proposed by you won't be accepted by Leoreth.

 

[Leoreth]

I've had something like this in mind for a long time actually, although it's a bit simpler. In short, ideologies are a direct consequence of your civic choices (as they implicitly already are for stuff like dynamic names) and only impact diplomacy, replacing religion as the dominant factor there with the Industrial era.

 

[Hojsimpson]

In my opinion civics and ideologies should be different terms in game. Ideologies should be like religions, you can't just convert millions of people of a whole nation into an ideologyfrom a totally different one in just one turn, here prosecutors makes sense, as well as missionaries as propaganda.(should substitute religions at later eras) And civics are like the way you plan to govern your nation which is related to your ideology, makes sense.

These leads to many combinations and what I think could be an interesting type of victory.(interesting because it could have different paths to lead to it)
Do anyone remember that Leoreth wanted the game to also represent a less competitive but more humanitarian aspect of civilizations?
Lets say one ideology is called WorldPeace and the three goals are achieve X total happiness and healthiness in whole world, nobody at war for X turns and no starving cities.
By combination of civics you could try to achieve this by UN and new units mechanics and peaceful civics or either by military and total rule(something like goals justifies actions)
And of course the ideologies that we all know had different ways of approacjing their goals

PD: I know talking is cheap, and not many people play the late game(too slow or not interesting enough) so suggesting such things is crazy

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Lets say one ideology is called WorldPeace and the three goals are achieve X total happiness and healthiness in whole world, nobody at war for X turns and no starving cities.

Oh you mean Communism?

 

[NerfCothons]

I've had something like this in mind for a long time actually, although it's a bit simpler. In short, ideologies are a direct consequence of your civic choices (as they implicitly already are for stuff like dynamic names) and only impact diplomacy, replacing religion as the dominant factor there with the Industrial era.

I would think it would make for more fluid gameplay to phase is in over the course of two eras (Renaissance is 50/50 while Industrial is full ideology). Would this trigger on a civ by civ basis so that a particularly antiquated Mansa Musa is still going to hold religion against even a modern Christian United States? I would also consider reverting the shift (or half of it) for civs running Theology or Fanatacism.

 

[Leoreth]

Some civics keeping civs in a religious mindset is a good idea. I thought more of the Industrial era as the transitional period, as fascism and communism appear at the tail end of it anyway. The dynamic between ideologies could also change, with the industrial era focusing on the dichotomy between conservatism (?) and liberalism. Alternately it wouldn't be based on era at all, and ideologies are "founded" with a technology so that the diplomatic dynamics change accordingly.

 

[Big Heb]

Some civics keeping civs in a religious mindset is a good idea. I thought more of the Industrial era as the transitional period, as fascism and communism appear at the tail end of it anyway. The dynamic between ideologies could also change, with the industrial era focusing on the dichotomy between conservatism (?) and liberalism. Alternately it wouldn't be based on era at all, and ideologies are "founded" with a technology so that the diplomatic dynamics change accordingly.

If using Imp. Knoedel's idea of ideology spreading like religion:

At least in America, conservatism and liberalism are very similar to each other in terms of final overall philosophical foundation. Both would count under the ideology of Liberalism. The differences would be in civic choices (Social Liberalism = Republic + Egalitarianism + Public Welfare + Free Market; Conservatism = Republic + Representation/Egalitarianism + Capitalism + Free Market). Just how the differences in Socialism are civic-related (Democratic Socialism = Republic + Egalitarianism + Public Welfare + Central Planning; Leninism = Autocracy + Totalitarianism + Public Welfare + Central Planning).

You could add to America's UHV, World's Policeman, to be >50% of all cities on each continent have Liberalism.

Here are some ways that ideology could spread:
- Founding (Liberalism starts in capital of civ that first discovers Liberalism (historical given liberal ideas started in England and France pre-democracy); Socialism starts in civ that first discovers Communism; Fascism starts in civ that first discovers Fascism)
- Historical spread (Liberalism to America on spawn, Socialism to Russia in 1920, Socialism to China in 1950, Fascism to Prussia and Italy in 1940, etc.)
- Cultural spread (if a city has the ideology and culture is bleeding over into another city, whether domestic or foreign, it has a chance of spreading)
- Trade routes (so if you're liberal and don't want fascist/socialist dogma, don't sign open borders with them)
- Propaganda (can be spread by Spy unit to spread your state ideology to foreign cities)
- Immigration (for America and Canada, both religion and ideology can spread with immigrants)

Ideology should have massive influence on diplomacy in late game. In actual history, Liberalism has had control of the United Nations. However, in alt history, you could have a Socialist or Fascist UN with many different propositions. I also think UN propositions should occur more common than they currently do.

 

[Leoreth]

I would classify things like American conservatism (or basically every conservative movement in western countries) and libertarianism all the way to democratic socialism as liberal ideologies.

That's why I put a question mark after conservatism, because I meant the anachronistic use of the term, i.e. monarchies fighting revolutionaries and later stuff like non-fascist dictatorships (Peron, Salazar ...).

 

[Big Heb]

I would classify things like American conservatism (or basically every conservative movement in western countries) and libertarianism all the way to democratic socialism as liberal ideologies.

That's why I put a question mark after conservatism, because I meant the anachronistic use of the term, i.e. monarchies fighting revolutionaries and later stuff like non-fascist dictatorships (Peron, Salazar ...).

Gotcha.

Those tend to be less ideological-based, so I would imagine those would be represented as a civ maintaining itself without any ideologies, or in spite of ideologies that keep spreading. So if you're Tsarist Russia, you would have to keep the plebs happy without making Socialism your state ideology with buildings, resources, etc. Same with Peron or Santa Anna. Or, if you adapted Religious Persecutor to just Persecutor, it could be used to remove ideologies as well. It would need to be hard to do though. And late game, by the time you would have to economically isolate yourself to keep ideologies away, dictatorial power deriving purely from personal loyalty becomes an uphill battle, just as it is in modern history.

Also, if you include Fascism as an ideology, it would be cool to include Hideki Tojo, Benito Mussolini, and Francisco Franco as new leaderheads.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I would classify things like American conservatism (or basically every conservative movement in western countries) and libertarianism all the way to democratic socialism as liberal ideologies.

This gives me warm fuzzies. It's always fun to tick Libertarians off by calling them liberals even after they clearly said they despise liberals.

 

[Leoreth]

Well I would argue that monarchism is at least as much of an ideology as liberalism.

 

[ezzlar]

During the end game many civs go for secularism.

Easy change would be to increase the civic plus modifiers (+6 your society is an inspiration to all) and introduce penalties (-8 you stand for all we oppose). This would replace early game religious tensions.

It would be interesting with additional effects of a certain civic set (except stability bonuses). Maybe we shoul have titles but based on civics instead. If you combine three civics you hold the Title X and get a certain bonus.