Suggestions and Requests

[1SDANi]

I don't particularly like the idea of making railroad- and highway-building more abstract by tying them to city buildings. I like using workers to build them.

I wasn't suggesting to remove workers' ability to build Railroads and Highways, I was just thinking it'd be nice if Public Transportation and Railway Stations could do it as well.

The only thing about this is that building a Railway Station doesn't (I think) require access to coal, but building a railroad route does. Likewise, building highways (I think) requires oil.

There's also the issue that different improvements receive different bonuses based on the route on it: railroads boost mines, pastures, and lumber Mills, while highways boost workshops and towns. Of course this later point can be changed but it should be acknowledged for a point against a blanket improvement of all tiles in a city's BFC.

I see no reason why they shouldn't require those resources, especially since they're thematically tied with said routes.

As for boosting, perhaps Railway Station would only replace Highways if the yield would be better and vice versa. I haven't played the late game in a while tbh, I'm just suggesting this because those two buildings have always been pretty UP.

 

[Leoreth]

Apparently everything is UP.

 

[1SDANi]

Apparently everything is UP.

What? There's a lot of balanced buildings in the game. I just never felt the need to build the Railway Station or Public Transport. Again, maybe it's just that I've only played a couple of late game games, but things like the Railway Station, Public Transport, Smokehouse, Sewer and Industrial Park rarely feel like they're a net positive, be it their downsides or the cost of building them compared to military units.

 

[TJDowling]

I'll say that in the late game there are a number of buildings that are just not even a consideration unless I've built literally every other building. I usually build public transport but I rarely build railway.

 

[1SDANi]

I'll say that in the late game there are a number of buildings that are just not even a consideration unless I've built literally every other building. I usually build public transport but I rarely build railway.

Good point, public transport is generally pretty good, it's railway that's the main issue. Due to them being thematically similar I often conflate the two. Sorry.

 

[TJDowling]

This wouldn't make the train station any more powerful, actually it would make it more of a pain in the butt but what if you could only improve so many tiles with railroads depending on how many train stations you have built? It would draw out the work of your labourers in that as you built more stations then your labourers would be free to improve more tiles. That would necessitate building them and make them a bit more purposeful. It kind of makes sense in that railroads require infrastructure, you can only have so many railroads with so many stations, depots, trainyards, etc. It also gives a bit more incentive to building highways for more than just the 1+ gold on towns and workshops, in the event that you don't have enough train stations to improve railroad tiles.

EDIT: Maybe you could have a base number of railroads you can build upon researching railroad and then each train station adds a certain number more.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't see the issue, it's just another building in the extra gold income line.

Now from a thematic point of view, the building should rather give a trade route, but there needs to be another +25% gold building to be on par with science (i.e. three buildings with +25% each and then another that requires power). I thought about something in the late Renaissance, maybe related to standardisation and weights and measures (placing it at the currently lacklustre Measurement tech), but couldn't come up with a good name for it yet.

 

[ozqar]

Here are some ideas, although I'm not with my home computer now, so can't check the current effects. Public transport increasing commerce for the city and the railway station adding a trade route sound appropriate. As for the tile improvements (highway and railway), the railway could focus on access to resources and increased commerce/hammers in tiles with resources (any resources)... but (if possible) only if the railway connects to a train station in a nearby city. Highways should rather increase unit movement, but not provide additional commerce or hammers to tiles. So players would use highways simply to link the cities and railways to link resources. At least highways should have maintenance costs (the maintenance cost of railways could be assumed to be covered already from its increased commerce yields). If possible graphically, highways and railways should not combine, but be separate transport systems.

Measurement could provide an automatic, small boost to commerce and productivity, without the requirement of a building. Otherwise a national wonder type of "house of weights and measurements" could provide this boost across the nation. Globally, a wonder called "International Bureau of Weights and Measures" or alternatively a project called "International System of Units" could provide this boost to all civs with additional commerce to the host nation.

 

[Leoreth]

I am looking for a per city building that gives +25% gold.

 

[Visard]

I am looking for a per city building that gives +25% gold.

We also have Distillery, so currently you can get +130% but only +110%(with secularism).
Railway Station could give +10% with coal and with oil.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't really count that, I would like to have a straight line of 3x +25% gold + 1x +25% gold with power spread evenly across eras like with science.

Library (3) + University (10) + Observatory (12) + Laboratory (14)
Market (5) + Bank (9) + ??? + Department Store (15)

Railway Station currently fills that slot but very awkwardly. The pattern suggests that the replacement building should be column 11 to 13, with Measurement in column 12 being a good middle point.

 

[Visard]

I don't really count that, I would like to have a straight line of 3x +25% gold + 1x +25% gold with power spread evenly across eras like with science.

Library (3) + University (10) + Observatory (12) + Laboratory (14)
Market (5) + Bank (9) + ??? + Department Store (15)

Railway Station currently fills that slot but very awkwardly. The pattern suggests that the replacement building should be column 11 to 13, with Measurement in column 12 being a good middle point.

Maybe Warehouse (http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Warehouse_(Civ4Col))
or Tavern from history rewritten.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, that's a cool idea.

 

[ozqar]

"So thanks for your ideas, but (I am looking for a per city building that gives +25% gold.)"

Look, for what I know, the obvious building for measurement tech would be an instrument maker or instrument workshop, but those don't exist on a per-city basis because you normally want a single place to make the standardized weights and measurements that everyone across the civ will use - hence I suggested a project, a wonder or a national wonder. In any case, on a second thought, those instruments are not gold-enhancing, they can be commerce, production, and/or science enhancing

If you want a gold-enhancing building, then it might be better to place it on a different tech. A tax collector or tax office could do it, but that would be better fitting with social contract or representation.

 

[Leoreth]

That would be alright as well, I only chose Measurement because it was kinda lacking in utility at the moment.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Wait a minute, whatever happened to the Grocer?

 

[Leoreth]

It was removed when the new tech tree was introduced.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

But why though?

 

[Leoreth]

It's related to the discussion we had earlier, I did not like how the progression of gold modifiers worked in the base tech tree compared to science modifiers, you get Markets and Grocers very close together and then Banks with +50% not so much later. So you could hit +100% gold while still being at a potential +25% science before Universities and Observatories come into play. So one gold building needed to replaced by something later in the tech tree. In the process I also redesigned which buildings affected which resources and it made more sense to distribute them between Pharmacy and Coffee House. In some sense Pharmacies are reskinned and renamed Grocers in that they provide health from resources, it's only that they provide science instead of gold and fit better with the new Alchemy tech in the tree.

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Razing penalty should be reduced if the city has adjacent cottages/towns for the population to retreat into.