Suggestions and Requests

[merijn_v1]

We have a dedicated thread for new civs suggestions.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-other-civs-would-you-like-to-see-added-to-doc.614314/

I made a modmod which includes Australia. (Credits to novicenoble for the original modcomp)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/merijn-new-civs-and-other-projects.627045/
I'm planning to change the spawn date to 1901 AD BTW. (It is currently 1851 AD)

 

[need my speed]

This just makes sense to me as Australians are stereotypically viewed as being nice and friendly and easy to get along with.

I don't really think so? Certainly, if I had to pick one civilisation for this, it would be Canada.

 

[Leoreth]

Canadians: polite, Australians: good to hang with

 

[Publicola]

Two proposals for the 'Heroic Epic' and 'National Epic' national wonders.

1) Neither of these wonders describe buildings or monuments -- they are texts that define the culture of a given civilization. In that case, wouldn't it make more sense to classify them as 'projects' rather than 'wonders', since they are non-physical? More importantly, since these documents shape culture across an entire civilization, shouldn't their effects be more 'wide' than 'tall' -- affecting every city that belongs to a civ, rather than providing an outsized bonus to only a single city? For instance, Heroic Epic might give +10% production for military units to all cities, rather than +100% production to a single city.


2) I am not a programmer, so I have no idea whether this would be possible, but once a civ constructs their 'National Epic' or 'Heroic Epic', would it be possible to generate a separate screen (similar to the box that displays wonder movies or the founding of a new religion) with a background image and text from that civ's specific epic?

That is, say India constructs a National Epic. When the wonder (or project) is finished, a screen pops up with an image of a Hindu frieze, with text excerpted from the Ramayana. The Heroic Epic for Rome would be a passage from Virgil's Aeneid (a different passage might be used for Carthage). France's epic would be the Chanson du Roland, the 'Song of Roland' that celebrated the age of Charlemagne.

This wouldn't necessarily need to affect the building description itself (France could still construct the wonder called 'Heroic Epic') but there could be a few lines of code so that, when the wonder is finished, the game determines which civ built it and pulls up the relevant wonder screen. Alternately, each civilization could have their own individual epics listed as 'Unique Epics' or 'Unique Projects', so that France could actually be constructing the Chanson du Roland displayed on the city production section.

 

[Leoreth]

National Epic and Heroic Epic do not exist in DoC anymore, mostly because they are not actual buildings.

The reason that national wonders affect only one city is that their deliberate role in the game is specialising specific cities, and to strengthen tall over wide play.

 

[Publicola]

National Epic and Heroic Epic do not exist in DoC anymore, mostly because they are not actual buildings.

Huh, my mistake then. Must have been thinking of Sword of Islam or some other Rhye's modmod that still uses them.

OTOH, would you consider restoring the National/Heroic Epics as projects with a 'wide' impact, along the lines of my earlier suggestion? I really like the idea of incorporating the national myths of various civs into the mod's gameplay.

 

[Leoreth]

They sound more like something a great artist could do?

 

[Publicola]

Ooh, I like that. So we'd give Great Artists the ability to 'Compose National Epic'/'Compose Heroic Epic' (with a small bonus for all cities across the civ) in addition to the 'Compose Great Work' culture-bomb? I'd be a fan of that.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, it would be nice if there was an appropriate requirement for this too, if I recall correctly the Heroic Epic already requires some minimum level on one of your units. Global effects and/or one time effects are possible here too. If there are concrete ideas I'd like to include them.

 

[1SDANi]

Great Works?

 

[Publicola]

Huh. Since it wouldn't be a pre-set national wonder, I wonder if it'd be possible to actually go through and create 'Unique Epics' for each civilization. That way you could avoid the duplication of having two epics (national epic for culture/GP, heroic epic for military) and specialize each civ's epic for what that civ is known for or has need of. Each Unique Epic would have its own prerequisite (whether a technology, a military unit with a certain level of experience, an empire with a certain number of buildings, or something else), along with its own set of effects. For instance:


Rome
Unique Epic: The Aeneid
Prerequisite: Civ owns a legion with four promotions
Effect: +50% production of legions, double speed when building Roman Roads, +2 Great Engineer GPP


England
Unique Epic: Morte d'Arthur
Prerequisite: Civ owns four knights with two promotions apiece
Effect: +50% production of military units during wartime, +2 Great General GPP


Or something. I'm not particularly attached to any given prereq or effect, or even the names of the epics; these are just to illustrate what options might be available. (Here's a list from Wikipedia of poetic and prose epics associated with different countries). Thoughts?

 

[Leoreth]

Unique effects go a bit too far for me, but I would be on board with unique names and splash screens for heroic and national epics.

 

[Publicola]

Unique effects go a bit too far for me, but I would be on board with unique names and splash screens for heroic and national epics.

Works for me.

For the effect, it depends on whether you want only one 'Unique Epic' or two per civ. If we want to replicate the National Epic, we might say each civ's epic would provide +2 and +25% for each city. If we wanted to replicate the Heroic Epic, it might be +1 and +25% when producing military units in each city. If you prefer to only have a single 'Unique Epic' for each civ, then it might be +25% and +25% military production.


Should we set up a separate [Feature] thread to develop this -- compile a list of civs, identify titles for their respective 'national epics', and search for artwork for the splash screens?

 

[Leoreth]

I think it would be cooler if they had an immediate effect instead of a small buffs across the board. A persistent +25% on anything is too strong anyway for one GP action (compare with e.g. Academy that gives +50% on one city). Instead, a Heroic Epic could spawn a bunch of units.

I'm not going to make a feature thread because that implies immediate implementation, but let's start a separate discussion thread.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

If you recall, several months ago I suggested the implementation of some form of mechanic to allow civs with bad modifiers to ditch them for better ones. The example I used is the old Westernization mechanic in EU4. You said you were open to such a mechanic while not wanting it to literally invoke the term "Westernization", which I 100% agree with. I'm talking about this again, because I am now playing a 1700 AD Mughals game, and I'm being harshly reminded why I dislike these starts. Having captured the cities of the Maratha, I'm suffering from 150% (!!!) inflation, essentially crippling my economy. While I understand that these civs need these modifiers in order to best represent their historical progression, at some point it feels really futile and frustrating to play these civs. There is no feeling of being able to "fix" your country, bring it back from the brink. You know that, no matter how well you play, you just will never compete with the European civs. The outcome is already predetermined.

While I understand you already have probably several thousand higher priorities than a modernization mechanic, I'd like to ask if you could keep it in mind for future updates. Thanks.

I'm playing a 600 AD Mughals game, it"s 1924, I'm in the Industrial era and still the most powerful civilization in the world. I managed to kick ass of the English invasion force so hard their civilization actually collapsed (only to respawn later quite weak) afterwards. What "modifiers" are so bad about the Mughals? Apart from 93 percent inflation I have good science, great production and control whole India+Bengal, only having to give up Samarkand and Merv due to overextension. Oh, and I won the UHV and play just to see how far I get. I do play Sunset of Civilization instead of basic DoC though.

I'd say the Mughal's sorry state in the 1700 AD start is because they start out in ruins with only a few cities. If you wanna win as Mughals, play an earlier start, they don't need "Westernization", my Mughals are "Westernized" anyways in a way as they run a democracy and are called "Islamic Republic of Pakistan".

 

[inthesomeday]

How high priority is the addition of a Sunni-Shia split at some time in the game?

 

[Publicola]

I'm not going to make a feature thread because that implies immediate implementation, but let's start a separate discussion thread.

Done. Here's the discussion thread.

Does anyone have a complete list of all the civs in the game? I could try to do it by memory, but I figured it'd be easier to ask.

 

[Orbii]

How high priority is the addition of a Sunni-Shia split at some time in the game?

As with every other time this has been suggested, it must be noted the utterly miniscule effect this would have in game. At MOST you would have two Shia civs on the map - Iran and Egypt (under certain Sultanates). And then it needs to be asked - what's the point?

Having just Islam isn't perfectly accurate to history, but given the scale of the mod it's sufficient.

 

[Leoreth]

Done. Here's the discussion thread.

Does anyone have a complete list of all the civs in the game? I could try to do it by memory, but I figured it'd be easier to ask.

Great. This is copied from Python code so excuse the formatting, but contains all civs in order:

[iCivEgypt, iCivBabylonia, iCivHarappa, iCivChina, iCivGreece, iCivIndia, iCivCarthage, iCivPolynesia, iCivPersia, iCivRome, iCivMaya, iCivTamils, iCivEthiopia, iCivKorea, iCivByzantium, iCivJapan, iCivVikings, iCivTurks, iCivArabia, iCivTibet, iCivIndonesia, iCivMoors, iCivSpain, iCivFrance, iCivKhmer, iCivEngland, iCivHolyRome, iCivRussia, iCivMali, iCivPoland, iCivPortugal, iCivInca, iCivItaly, iCivMongols, iCivAztecs, iCivMughals, iCivOttomans, iCivThailand, iCivCongo, iCivIran, iCivNetherlands, iCivGermany, iCivAmerica, iCivArgentina, iCivMexico, iCivColombia, iCivBrazil, iCivCanada, iCivIndependent, iCivIndependent2, iCivNative, iCivCeltia, iCivBarbarian]

 

[Publicola]

Great. This is copied from Python code so excuse the formatting, but contains all civs in order

Thanks. One thing -- it looks like the new Turkic civilization isn't on the list. I manually added 'Turkic' between Japan and the Vikings (and changed 'Turkey' to 'Ottoman'), but can you confirm that's the right spot for their spawn date?