Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

Why? Because it was important historically. It defined Christian-Muslim relations for centuries if not until today. The Crusades should be a significant threat for a Arab and Turkic game, and potentially even a Mongol one.

The Levantine crusades were relevant for roughly a century. That's ten turns on normal game speed.

Diplomat/Ambassador unit.
Has the "Commando" ability (can move on foreign roads). Cannot be attacked like spy. Cannot be detected, unlike spy (or it has a very low "detection" rate). Is visible to other players?
Basically, as someone like China it's often beneficial to send spies out to ensure you have permanent contact with certain nations for tech trading. Which is what they did IRL - China sent out many foreign delegations to establish trade routes.
Unfortunately sometimes the spy randomly gets caught and you lose relations, despite the fact you weren't actually spying on them.

In theory the Ambassador unit should still have a "detection" or "capture" rate so that you can't just have permanent contact with a foreign nation for all eternity for free.

I have some ideas around that that I would love to implement at some point.

 

[BaneFire]

The Levantine crusades were relevant for roughly a century. That's ten turns on normal game speed.

The Seljuks only lasted around 15 turns (1030-1200) , and the Mongols 17 (1200-1370), and besides, who's to say that they'll only last that long in a DOC game. It would additionally also make a Mamluk/Fatimid mid-game Egyptian spawn have a bit more to do.

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Also could some of the automatic tile/city swaps have some more conditions and or events for them? Often in a China/Japan game, Vladivostok will flip to Russia without any warning or chance to refuse, and you'll also get random forts throughout the Pacific Northwest, often on resources that you've already improved. Should Canada have Vancouver in its flip zone? It's weird again as China/Japan when European settled Canada suddenly demands Vancouver from you.

 

[Hickman888]

I like @BaneFire 's idea about the crusade policy spawning a little army. Maybe it can be done in a similar manner as the Trading Company event: If the resolution is passed, every Catholic civilization has the option to either...
A.) Ignore the crusades (Diplomatic hit with all other Catholic civilizations)
B.) Declare war on the non-Christian civilization that owns the holy city of Orthodoxy (or Catholicism)
C.) Draft a crusading army to go retake the holy land.

With the last option taking away a couple population from each of your cities. The drafted army also shouldn't be that big, as each civilization has the option to draft an army or not.
Alternatively, if that idea has too much potential for abuse, then the "pope" of the Apostolic Palace is the only one given the option to draft an army, and every other Catholic civilization just gets the option to declare war or not.

While we're on the topic of the Apostolic Palace, I feel that the "Collect Tithe" option should give a benefit to the civilizations that are paying the tithe. It is my favorite resolution to spam when I'm the pope, and all the AI's love to vote for it, for some reason. Maybe, if you pay tithe to the Church. all of your cities receive +1 or 2 for 10 turns on normal speed, so that way, its not a complete loss for the tithers.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

If the resolution is passed, every Catholic civilization has the option to either...
A.) Ignore the crusades (Diplomatic hit with all other Catholic civilizations)
B.) Declare war on the non-Christian civilization that owns the holy city of Orthodoxy (or Catholicism)
C.) Draft a crusading army to go retake the holy land.

I like this. It reminds me of the Reformation event as well. I think it makes sense to still tie it to the Apostolic Palace resolution, but adding the choice on how to respond to the crusade would be a nice touch. I'm not sure if it should be a unit spawn, but I like the idea of some kind of effect tied to how many civs respond to the crusade.

Alternatively, the existing resolution could be changed so that everyone who votes yes declares war (regardless of whether the resolution would pass), with a benefit tied to how many vote yes, and maybe a diplo hit for those who vote no.

 

[JHLee]

what's the point of passing a crusade in the AP if you can just ignore it?

 

[Louis the XIV]

what's the point of passing a crusade in the AP if you can just ignore it?

Because think about it, Jerusalem has 2 holy shrines which bring in a lot of money. Wouldn't you want to conquer Jerusalem?

 

[black213]

What if settlers from a religious city would take the state religion with them (or by chance one of the minority religions if any are present in the origin city)? In-game Europeans are always sending pagan or atheist settlers to the New World or what?

 

[Visard]

It's nice that now the Oracle gets obsoleted instead of hoarding one wonder slot for eternity.
Maybe it could also have actual effect after it's construction.
One priest slot would fit well.

 

[Hickman888]

Devils advocate: Part of the challenge of a Spanish historical game lies in spreading Catholicism to enough cities. If your newly founded cities were to start with your state religion, it would almost make that goal too easy. If that was addressed somehow, I think it would be great if new cities in the Renaissance and up were founded with a religion.

 

[BaneFire]

Lol I know that feel.
However I kind of disagree with this suggestion, in a sense you can imagine that yes your colonies are still Christian, but you need to actively promote Catholicism as the state religion (otherwise religious heterodoxy will just run wild in your colonies!). Which is represented by ferrying missionaries over, or an equivalent being the Spanish crown sponsoring various monastic groups like the Dominicans and Franciscans throughout the New World.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Lol I know that feel.
However I kind of disagree with this suggestion, in a sense you can imagine that yes your colonies are still Christian, but you need to actively promote Catholicism as the state religion (otherwise religious heterodoxy will just run wild in your colonies!). Which is represented by ferrying missionaries over, or an equivalent being the Spanish crown sponsoring various monastic groups like the Dominicans and Franciscans throughout the New World.

I agree with this conceptually but if the AI isn't willing/able to dedicate those resources there's a problem. Maybe some sort of religious analogue for the AI only conqueror armies? Or an Apostolic Palace "sponsor missionaries" vote?

 

[ShinobiHus92]

Personally having an crusade event in the game would be a great idea. It was a huge significant moment in Christian and Muslim history. I see some comments about that the crusaders states where only relevant for about a century but isn't the whole idea of this game to make you're own type of history?

You can play as the Persians and with luck squash the Arabians and spread the Zoroastrian faith into the middle east. You can play as the Romans, survive the barbarians raid, fight of the remaining new Europeans civs, kill of the Byzantines and go on a colonial tour instead all the way to the modern world. You play as the Moors conquer past the iberian peninsula spread islam deeper into Europe. So what if you conquer Jerusalem and continue all the way to Egypt? Wasn't that what the Europeans at the time also wanted it? All these what ifs is what makes this game so fascinating. The fact that you can go ahistorical and make Christianity instead the dominant faith in the Middle East is fascinating to think about.

So having this kinda event implemented in the game would be a really cool idea. The question now if it's realistic or possible of course. But that's my opinion

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Personally having an crusade event in the game would be a great idea. It was a huge significant moment in Christian and Muslim history. I see some comments about that the crusaders states where only relevant for about a century but isn't the whole idea of this game to make you're own type of history?

You can play as the Persians and with luck squash the Arabians and spread the Zoroastrian faith into the middle east. You can play as the Romans, survive the barbarians raid, fight of the remaining new Europeans civs, kill of the Byzantines and go on a colonial tour instead all the way to the modern world. You play as the Moors conquer past the iberian peninsula spread islam deeper into Europe. So what if you conquer Jerusalem and continue all the way to Egypt? Wasn't that what the Europeans at the time also wanted it? All these what ifs is what makes this game so fascinating. The fact that you can go ahistorical and make Christianity instead the dominant faith in the Middle East is fascinating to think about.

So having this kinda event implemented in the game would be a really cool idea. The question now if it's realistic or possible of course. But that's my opinion

I mean a successful, long-lasting Crusader State is just as possible right now as any of those other alt-history scenarios you listed. Like them, it does require you to work a bit for it, but I think that's preferable to just having it handed to you. The Apostolic Palace crusade vote is reasonably common, and even if that doesn't happen, or doesn't target Arabia or Turkey or whoever is holding Jerusalem, every single Catholic nation has the resources to launch an invasion of their own if that's what the player chooses. Heck, in my current Italy game, Poland of all places held on to Jerusalem for many hundreds of years. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a tweak to the AP that forces or increases the chances of a crusade vote against the owner of Jerusalem during the appropriate era, but I don't think that any big change is warranted.

 

[Leoreth]

It's literally already part of the HRE UHV to do that.

 

[ShinobiHus92]

I mean a successful, long-lasting Crusader State is just as possible right now as any of those other alt-history scenarios you listed. Like them, it does require you to work a bit for it, but I think that's preferable to just having it handed to you. The Apostolic Palace crusade vote is reasonably common, and even if that doesn't happen, or doesn't target Arabia or Turkey or whoever is holding Jerusalem, every single Catholic nation has the resources to launch an invasion of their own if that's what the player chooses. Heck, in my current Italy game, Poland of all places held on to Jerusalem for many hundreds of years. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a tweak to the AP that forces or increases the chances of a crusade vote against the owner of Jerusalem during the appropriate era, but I don't think that any big change is warranted.

It depends mostly the AI handles the The Apostolic Palace poorly if you ask me. A bit of a tweak would be a fun experience, kinda the same way the Trading Company or the Protestant Reformation events are working right now. For example I like Hickman888's sugestion where as a Christian nation you have the option by entering the crussade or just simply ignore it which might cause a diplomatic penalty with your fellow Christian neighbours.

Also I think it would be interessting if Muslim civs can also have their own type of election same way the The Apostolic Palace works for the Christians. Where as the Muslims can call for a jihad or Muslims leaders can go for a pilgrmage to Mecca. But all this sounds to much like Crusaders Kings right now

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

not election based but a caliphate-succession based system could be nice for whoever controlling a wonder directly, something like Umayyad Mosque makes sense to me.

A simple representation that comes to my mind is this, Caliph maybe can get a free horseman unit once in a while to represent the ghazis. Which would obsolote with the latest cavalry units, hence can represent the abolition of caliphate in Turkey.

though I can't think of any international mechanics for the Caliphate, it makes sense in a mod like SoI because there are many small civilizations that you can rally for wars, but in DoC there is only a big Arab civilization.

 

[JHLee]

Don't AIs get free workers and defenders when they settle New World colonies? Perhaps they should get a free missionary of their state religion as well? Though I am not exactly a fan of AIs getting heaps of free stuff, I don't think free missionaries would shake the balance too much.

 

[Nyayr]

I noticed when a religion spread to your city it abandons the pagan temple, but if you use a missionary the temple is converted to the faith. When you use a great prophet to spread your religion it abandons the pagan temples, which kinda makes little sense honestly.

 

[ShinobiHus92]

Some suggestions I would like to see in the future.

More dynamic name changes expanded
I feel like some civs are still lacking a bit of variety in terms of name changing during specific eras in history. Some examples are the Mali, Morroco, Khmer, Babylonia, Greece and Ethiopia

For Mali during the medieval/renaissance era once the capital goes to Gao the name will be changed to the Songhai Empire even if the empire was short-lived it's just a nice little touch
During the renaissance and beyond West Africa was pretty much fractured and disunited but some empires still flourished during this period like the Kaabu Empire. For modern names it can be called the Mali of course but also Ghana, Niger, Mauritania, Senegal etc.

Morroco itself has already decent name changes as a civ but it can be expanded upon
Medieval era: The Almoravid as an empire and the Almohads when the civ runs theocracy.
Renaissance era: Kingdom of Morocco is fine but once they are an empire it changes to the Saadi empire or the Alaouite empire (even if the last one isn't even historical at all) When it runs as a city state it can be called as the Barbary States or Barbary Coast which during the 16th and 19th century where huge pirate activities around the Maghreb and the Mediterranean Sea.

For Khmer the only major one missing is the modern kingdom of Cambodia if it ever respawns in the modern era.

For Babylonia I rather see it start as the Sumerians and once it's capital change to Babylon it's the Babylonian Empire. For modern respawn the Republic of Iraq.

I rather have Greece in the ancient/bronze age refer to as the Mycenaeans/Mycenaean city states or kingdom

There are probably more to mention but right now this stands out to me.

More ancient civs respawn/reborn into modern nation states
This pretty much coincide with the first suggestion about having more dynamic names for each civ. This time when they respawn into the modern era. This also means that more ancient civs can respawn when nationalism is discovered.

I already made an example about Mali, Babylon and Khmer.

Other civs are:

The Phoenician/Carthaginians
When the capital is Tunis they respawn as Tunisia, when capital Algiers as Algeria, when capital Beirut as Lebanon and maybe as an extra when the capital is Jerusalem with Judaism as a state religion as Israel

Harappa
This one is tricky but I was thinking for the Harappa's to reborn as the modern Bangladesh or Burma/Myanmar. They can also appear during the renaissance era as the Sikh Empire however that empire was very short-lived and it will also mean that Sikhism has to be implemented in the game as a religion. Unless you like to play ahistorical and make Sikhism the dominant faith on earth that is.

Ethiopia
If the capital is in Mogadishu and it has Islam as a religion it will be modern Somalia

Polynesians
This might be controversial and tricksty like the Harappa one but I can see them reborn as modern Australia or New Zealand since the Aboriginals and the Maori's where of Polynesians descent afterall. Right now Australia feels most of the time empty and there core can move to Australia or New Zealand. Maybe if it runs as fascist it can be called als the Neo Tonga empire or Oceania Empire

More modern leaderheads
This also goes in line with the second suggestion. Modern states means also modern leaders however this means some leaders need to be made animated and researched about them.
Few examples:

For the Dutch as modern leaderhead:
Queen Beatrix or Queen Wilhelmina

For the Russians:
Michail Gorbatsjov or Vladimir Putin

For the Spanish:
We already have Franco but if Spain decides to be a democracy then Adolfo Suarez maybe?

For the Germans:
Angela Merkel

For the Austrians:
Difficult to say.. so for now unknown

For Arabia:
King Faisal or King Salman

For Babylonia/Iraq:
Saddam Hussein

For Columbia:
Luis Carlos Galan?

For the Portuguese:
Also unknown right now


I can go on and on of course and these are just a few examples for modern leaderheads. I think for the British, America and French are fine in my opinion.

This isn't by the way to nitpick or some criticism but just a few sugesstions/opinions that I would like to see in the future. I wish I was a expert in modding otherwise I would have try to implement few of these myself and share it with you guys. For now I try to support this game by having these kinda suggestions or conversations by making this mod even better

 

[Leoreth]

For leaderheads, we are limited by which leaders have art available. I will also not use politicians that are still in office, or have until recently been in office.