Suggestions and Requests

[hnrysml]

Thanks, citis! I had honestly completely forgotten about that. As much as I'm not really sure it makes historical sense as a wonder it does certainly provide an answer to the issues I raised.

 

[Ani Taneen]

But on the flipside Civ6 will further diminish the feeling of global and historical scope by having its cities cover multiple tiles!

I know SOI divides the map up into regions. Has anyone tried Endless legend? See their cities have districts. But there can only be one city in each region.

Any RFC mod to civ 6 will probably incorporate something like that. It would require a HUGE MAP.

 

[Leoreth]

I think the most unique or special aspect of the Aztec in comparison to the other groups around them was that they literally settled in Lake Texcoco on swamplands and reclaimed land from Lake Texcoco, both for farming (chinampas), and to build their capital city, Tenochtitlan. This city was built largely out of stonework, and is most commonly estimated to have a peak population of over 200,000, meaning it was larger and more grand than any European city other than perhaps Constantinople, at the time.
In my opinion these are the most unique and interesting features of the Aztec: their reclamation of land and their construction of such a significant city (and over a period of only about 200 years). I don't think that these are well-enough represented in Civ 4 or this mod, especially as the tiles around Tenochtitlan don't really help making it a large city, even with the flood plains and food bonuses.
I don't really have any specific suggestions so perhaps I should've posted this in the general discussion, but this thread seems to get more traffic and interesting debate/ideas, so maybe people will have something useful to say in response?

Also I've been a fan of this mod for some time now but only recently made a civ fanatics account, and just wanted to say I think Leoreth and the community are really great and have made an amazing mod!
I look forward to having more to say here in the future

Thanks and welcome to the forum!

The problem with Tenochtitlan and most of what the Aztecs did happened on a too minor scale to be represented by terrain and worker actions, so I did my best in trying to represent that using the Floating Gardens wonder.

But if there are suggestions on how to do it better then I am all ears.

 

[Leoreth]

I know SOI divides the map up into regions. Has anyone tried Endless legend? See their cities have districts. But there can only be one city in each region.

Something like this works in Endless Legend because it's a fantasy game. I don't mind if it redefines the scope of its settings to suit these mechanics but the scope of a Civilization game is pretty much set. I don't get why so much work is invested in diminishing the immersive effect with regards to this scope, or if the developers are even aware that this is what they are doing.

 

[need my speed]

Exactly. There's a reason why I draw a distinction between games such as Warlock: Master of the Arcane - such medieval fantasy settings - and Civilization V on one hand, and Civilization IV on the other. Yet nobody seems to make this connection. That Civilization V is more of an 'adventure', an exploration, a journey, with medieval castles dotting the countryside, whereas Civilization IV is a world, an empire, with cities and all.

 

[Force44]

Hnrysml, if I understand you correctly you want to make playing the Aztecs feel more like playing the Aztecs as opposed to playing any other civilization.

And also that you think the Aztecs would be more Aztecy if (when playing) you could give more emphasis on building (impressive) agrircultural improvements (reclamation of the land) and buildings that simulate a rapid growth and large populationpotential.

I don't agree on that being the essence of the Aztecs (they went down in history also remebered for their horrific sacrifices and the incredible wealth their conquest provided) but I will indulge you.

It seems to me you are angling for a (different/second) unique building.

A building that would give very rapid growth (so something that stacks with a granary, lets say it gives another 25% of food after the city grows) and also it should enable Tenochtitlan to grow very big (so lets also ad some extra health lets say 2)

A building like that seems very strong to me already. Perhaps already wondermaterial?
Let's call it Temple of the sun. (that is reminiscent of the name the Aztecs gave to the pyramid of the sun in Teotihuacan) After all, those horrible sacrifices were performed to bargain with the gods for the fertility of the lands. They might have just worked this time.

Gameplaywise a building that enables such a rapid growth to such a high extent might provide happiness issues, but then again that is where the Aztec ability to sacrifice slaves for happiness would come in quite handy.

summary:
(request)
another great wonder to represent the grandeur of Tenochtitlan ?

 

[Force44]

Civilizations are differentiated from each other in DoC by:

location and starting year

Unique building

Unique unit

Unique ability

Unique victory

~

The Unique victory consists of three quests.

Completion of all three quests gives you victory.
Completion of two out of three quests gives you a golden age and a nice building as a reward.
Completion of the first could give you a civilization specific reward.

That reward could be something to make you feel more like playing the civilization you are currently playing.

 

[citis]

Completing 2 goals is already exploited for other types of victory. Adding a reward for one goal would make exploitation even easier. Moreover, since AI players never get to achieve their goals, it just easy the game overall.

 

[citis]

Spoiler :

Quote: fixed War Congress if a civ is collapsed or eliminated.

Maybe the first question of the congress would be if the civ should be restored or not.
If it is restored then its civics are defined by the winners somehow, it begins with few military and it enjoys a period of 10 turn peace.

For example in Congress of 1815 euros restored France, but they changed their form of government.

 

[Force44]

Completing 2 goals is already exploited for other types of victory. Adding a reward for one goal would make exploitation even easier. Moreover, since AI players never get to achieve their goals, it just easy the game overall.

But now it is just a quest without a reward. When I follow your line of thought you propose to bring the amount of goals for an UHV back to 2. (so only 1/3 of exploitation of GA/Triumphal Arc occurs)

I prefer rewards during historical play over over one reward after historical play. It is a better incentive.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Moreover, since AI players never get to achieve their goals, it just easy the game overall.

How about AI civs getting the arch automatically (if they didn't get it by then) if they're (very) stable in the turn (or any time after) when that civ is expected to complete the first two goals.

 

[Auric]

I'm just wondering if you've taken into consideration my suggestion about relocation the Egyptian capital to Memphis. It would be more histocially accurate and there would be more synergy between the scenarios.

 

[Leoreth]

I did, but I think for the moment it's better to allow a decent second city on the coast.

 

[Ballazic]

Leoreth, I just started playing around more 1.14. I like the new religion mechanic, especially how religions spread and fade, it's great having Judaism back in the game too. What I will say is that, making Judaism dependent on priesthood makes a lot more easy to popup in India, which is fine except it makes the whole orthodox Catholic thing a bit more difficult. I just have found having Judaism far away from Europe makes the spreading of Christianity and subsequently the Schism and and reformation less certain which even throws off a lot of UHV goals for some civs.

Priesthood is an easy tech for India to grab and it makes sense that they would research it early on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BenZL43]

By the way, the ancient Egyptian called their city Waset, or the city of the Was.
It is also alternatively called niwt.rst (southern city) to distinguish it from the northern city mn.nfr (a.k.a Memphis).

 

[hnrysml]

I think that any UHVs that require the player to ensure there are no European colonies in the Caribbean (I think it is just the Colombian one, perhaps, but I'm not sure), doesn't make a lot of sense, as there are technically still quite a few European colonies in the Caribbean today, and no one seems or has historically been (that I'm aware of) interested in the independence of many of them. For example, no one but another European power has ever tried to take Aruba from the Netherlands.

 

[Leoreth]

Leoreth, I just started playing around more 1.14. I like the new religion mechanic, especially how religions spread and fade, it's great having Judaism back in the game too. What I will say is that, making Judaism dependent on priesthood makes a lot more easy to popup in India, which is fine except it makes the whole orthodox Catholic thing a bit more difficult. I just have found having Judaism far away from Europe makes the spreading of Christianity and subsequently the Schism and and reformation less certain which even throws off a lot of UHV goals for some civs.

Priesthood is an easy tech for India to grab and it makes sense that they would research it early on.

Yeah, that is a problem. The general idea was for the autofounding to kick in before anyone can realistically research Priesthood unless the player focuses it. Apparently that is not the case. Priesthood is also problematic because it is on the Babylonian UHV path.

The only solution I can think of is to move Judaism to Monotheism, but that opens the question of where to put Zoroastrianism. If it's Monarchy as before, we again have the problem with the Babylonian UHV path. But I guess even that would be better than the current configuration.

Any other ideas?

 

[Force44]

Ideas for judaism.

(I)
Link the autofounding of Judaism (in Jerusalem) to the founding of hinduism (perhaps with a delay of a couple of turns)
(II)
Insert a great prophet
Make judaism only foundable by a great prophet.
Prioritise setteling a great prophet over founding a religion for the AI. (perhaps accompanied by a random element of chance)
Have a great prophet spawn for the first player who researches priesthood.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't like grafting even more special rules on founding a religion, then I'd rather turn it into a religion that can only be founded through scripting.

 

[citis]

The only solution I can think of is to move Judaism to Monotheism, but that opens the question of where to put Zoroastrianism. If it's Monarchy as before, we again have the problem with the Babylonian UHV path.

If AI babylonia discovers Monarchy after Persian spawn, then only human Babylonia will found Zoroastrianism. This isn't of a problem, or is it?