Superheroes & representation (split from questions thread)

[ParkCungHee]

Speaking of a slightly different set of Hercules comics, I've been thinking about the casting of Dwayne Johnson in the Hercules film. This has to be the first time in really, ever where a Hollywood studio have cast a historical-slash-mythological figure who most people would reflexively assume to be "white" with an actor who is definitely not. I've been wondering if it's worth starting a thread.

Well, I don't know if the "definitely not" thing actually applies. Race is funny like that.

 

[Traitorfish]

While we're here, and I'm being repeatedly accused of wanting to turn the entire line-up of the Justice League into gay black disabled Jews, I really would like to see some more diversity in 2000AD. At present the major recurring series are mostly about white dudes; the only major recurring character who is neither white nor, like, green or a robot or something, is one half of Sinister Dexter.

Well, I don't know if the "definitely not" thing actually applies. Race is funny like that.

Really? I guess that's part of the issue. Johnson has taken advantage of his "ambiguously brown" features to play Middle Eastern characters in the past, but Greece seems to be just a little further North and West than Hollywood would usually allow. Especially given that the rest of the film's casting seems to adhere to the tradition of refusing to allow even actual Greeks to play Greeks, instead preferring a lot of Northern Europeans with a slight tan.

I certainly welcome the more enlightened attitudes this presumably represents, but I'm a bit baffled as to how we go from casting a Scot with a heavy camera-filter as Leonidas to casting a black-Samoan guy as Hercules with no apparent transition.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I say we go Blacksad on everything. That'll make things simpler.

Also will massively improve character designs.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Really? I guess that's part of the issue. Johnson has taken advantage of his "ambiguously brown" features to play Middle Eastern characters in the past, but Greece seems to be just a little further North and West than Hollywood would usually allow.

Well, yes. But at the same time I've never encountered someone thinking Johnson was "not-white" either, which is why he can play a character like Hercules without controversy.

 

[bhsup]

I have no problem with Johnson playing him, but I feel like the role should have been Kevin Sorbo's because, well, you know. Though I just checked and he's 55 now, so maybe not...

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, yes. But at the same time I've never encountered someone thinking Johnson was "not-white" either, which is why he can play a character like Hercules without controversy.

Yeah, but The Rock joined a black militant stable in the late nineties ("The Nation of Domination"; look it up, it is the dumbest thing), so the idea of Johnson being something other than white has certainly occurred to people. This whole ambiguity seems to be reflected in his movie career: he sometimes plays characters who are white (Hercules), characters who are black (G.I. Joe), and characters who are just sort of brown-ish (The Scorpion King.) So although it's not inexplicable, I still think it's noteworthy, given that white people and especially white nerds are prone to getting very defensive about this sort of thing.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Speaking of a slightly different set of Hercules comics, I've been thinking about the casting of Dwayne Johnson in the Hercules film. This has to be the first time in really, ever where a Hollywood studio have cast a historical-slash-mythological figure who most people would reflexively assume to be "white" with an actor who is definitely not. I've been wondering if it's worth starting a thread.

No, it's not.

 

[Traitorfish]

It was only a suggestion. I like thinking about how the past (and mythologised versions of the past) is presented in cinema, and issues about race and representation are popular and very occasionally productive topics, so it seemed like there might be something there worth talking about. As it turns out the issue is probably less changing attitudes in Hollywood and more the peculiar flexibility of Dwayne Johnson, so there isn't quite as much there as I thought there might be.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Concerning the mention of the new Hercules movie: at first I thought Hercules was being portrayed by some random white actor, then I realized it was the Rock.

 

[Tarquelne]

No, it's not.

I know! Lets talk about the "Cerberus the Aardvark" comic and the "feminist/homosexual axis."

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The only comic matters that have annoyed me lately is that they killed Archie Andrews.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Yeah, but The Rock joined a black militant stable in the late nineties ("The Nation of Domination"; look it up, it is the dumbest thing), so the idea of Johnson being something other than white has certainly occurred to people...So although it's not inexplicable, I still think it's noteworthy, given that white people and especially white nerds are prone to getting very defensive about this sort of thing.

My point is that while Johnson has always been identified as something other than white, he has never to my knowledge been identified as "not white". A good example of how racial categories aren't exclusive.

 

[Kyriakos]

Speaking of a slightly different set of Hercules comics, I've been thinking about the casting of Dwayne Johnson in the Hercules film. This has to be the first time in really, ever where a Hollywood studio have cast a historical-slash-mythological figure who most people would reflexively assume to be "white" with an actor who is definitely not. I've been wondering if it's worth starting a thread.

So Dwayne is not 'white' enough in your view? Maybe most people don't care as much about how white one is, unlike, yourself
Besides, the movie is an action film, he is good in those, and he seems to be a decently fun person (not that i regard him as a notable actor), so for this movie he was a good choice.

Of course they had to again murder the actual mythos by having zombies in an apocalypse attack the humans, but anyway.

*

Btw: your comment that holywood 'refuses to let actual Greeks play Greeks' again speaks volumes about your problematic views on movies. The point is not to have the actual ethnicity play the role, cause chances are fewer choices would be available for that in a foreign country. In reality the opposite is the issue, that many holywood movies try to have ethnicities/sexualities in films just as PC tokens (or worse), and not for helping the movie be better.

 

[Traitorfish]

My point is that while Johnson has always been identified as something other than white, he has never to my knowledge been identified as "not white". A good example of how racial categories aren't exclusive.

I guess.

 

[bhsup]

He's white+

 

[Traitorfish]

I bet it turns out he's actually from Krypton.

 

[salty mud]

I for one object to all these heroes with super powers. I think us no-powers should be better represented.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I for one object to all these heroes with super powers. I think us no-powers should be better represented.

We no-powers do at least have batman. :/

Frankly, though, the fact that Batman has no superpowers and yet is, in my opinion, more badass than all of the other classical superheroes combined, is a good thing.

 

[Kyriakos]

We no-powers do at least have batman. :/

Frankly, though, the fact that Batman has no superpowers and yet is, in my opinion, more badass than all of the other classical superheroes combined, is a good thing.

Iirc he is the most commercial for the comix as well, and obviously had the most cartoon series as well (and movies).

Not easy to identify with something immortal (Superman).
Besides, why would an immortal actually try to stop crime in some dumb city somewhere. Seems way too provincial and moreover absurd.

Btw, the 'hit by radioactive/otherweird material and became a superhero' trope is...idiotic :\ And a very crude metaphor for 'facing great difficulties, and later on became important' etc.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Iirc he is the most commercial for the comix as well, and obviously had the most cartoon series as well (and movies).

Not easy to identify with something immortal (Superman).
Besides, why would an immortal actually try to stop crime in some dumb city somewhere. Seems way too provincial and moreover absurd.

Btw, the 'hit by radioactive/otherweird material and became a superhero' trope is...idiotic :\ And a very crude metaphor for 'facing great difficulties, and later on became important' etc.

I never liked the "bitten by radioactive spider or whatever" trope either, it seemed like too much wish fulfillment for me (not that wish fulfillment is bad, of course, but in this case it's just too blatant for me). Which is also why out of the major, classical superheroes, Spiderman is one of my least favorite.

Batman's a tad bit too dark for my tastes, but he don't got magical powers or anything, technically speaking. Better to have that.