Superheroes!

[EgonSpengler]

I thought they portrayed She-Hulk well, in-character to the comics (even breaking the Fourth Wall, which she did before Deadpool!). Granted it was one episode, but they showed that she is a bit neurotic & self-absorbed. I hope they eventually lean into how much Jen loves being She-Hulk. It's why I like her & Supergirl (comics version - not that godawful CW show) - they both came into their powers later in life & *love it*.

I didn't like how they leaned into the cliche of "the Girl version of the Guy superhero is automatically better & needs no training due to GRRL POWER!" which is so common & predictable nowadays, but it did get her quickly to where her comics character is supposed to be: Comics Jen likes being She-Hulk much more than she likes being her "normal" self, as opposed to Bruce, who took a decade+ to reconcile his two halves.

I think I mentioned it in the tv thread over yonder, but I heard somewhere that this "origin story" first episode was imposed on the showrunner by The Powers That Be. She intended to just drop the viewer into the legal comedy with Jen already being She-Hulk, and we would've found out how it happened later. The moment where Maslany turns to the camera and says "let's back up, because we're afraid you people are dopes and still don't understand this superhero stuff even after 14 years" might've been a little middle-finger to the MCU Overlords. But that's just me speculating, if the story that the first episode is the product of meddling from above is true. If it is true, hopefully she was able to get everything back on track after having to do that first ep the way they wanted her to. We'll see.

I listened to an interview with Maslany in which she mentioned that almost the whole training-sequence part of the first episode was improvised between her and Ruffalo, which kind of lends some supporting evidence to the claim that much of that episode was the result of a directive from above. It would also explain why the CGI animators fell behind schedule and the material for the trailers was unfinished. Maslany also mentioned that has a background in improv theater, which I didn't know.

 

[Cutlass]

I didn't watch Lucifer regularly, so I don't know if Constantine ever showed up there, but I think 'Lucy' made a cameo in one of The CW's big crossover events (Crisis on Infinite Earths, maybe?) and said hello to John.

For a time John Constantine was a regular on the CW's Legends of Tomorrow. What the portrayal of Constantine there had different than most of the books he was in is that in the books Constantine is "a right bastard". Most of his problems are of his own creation, because he is a conman and a grifter who is indifferent to the consequences of his actions. Until he has screwed up so badly that he's forced to fix a lot of the crap that only needs fixing because of him.

 

[EgonSpengler]

For a time John Constantine was a regular on the CW's Legends of Tomorrow. What the portrayal of Constantine there had different than most of the books he was in is that in the books Constantine is "a right bastard". Most of his problems are of his own creation, because he is a conman and a grifter who is indifferent to the consequences of his actions. Until he has screwed up so badly that he's forced to fix a lot of the crap that only needs fixing because of him.

Yeah, I thought Matt Ryan did a great job. He's one of the CW "Berlantiverse" actors that I would be happy to see playing the character again, even in a movie. And I'd like to see a version of the character that was truer to Hellblazer (neither Keanu's Constantine nor Legends were quite that, and it doesn't seem like the version that's in Sandman is, either). I don't know if the rumor about Warner Bros talking to Berlanti about taking over the DCEU is true, and if it is true, I don't know if he would bring along any of the people involved in the CW shows or start fresh. I would guess the latter, but I could see at least some of those actors transitioning to movies in those roles, if they wanted to.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Ep 2 of She-Hulk

Spoiler :

sucked. Huge amounts of expository dialogue. I mean, Jesus. That whole scene with Blonsky couldn't end soon enough, except that I guess they had to drop in a Thunderbolts teaser. And that banal "awkward family dinner" scene wasn't just hackneyed, it wasn't even a good repetition of that scene. The assistant saying "we have windows! and a desk!" Every scene with Jen's new boss. Argh. Was any of this supposed to be funny? I don't think I laughed once. Was I just in a bad mood? I've never seen any of Gao's work before, but the episode that Maslany said was mostly improv was better-written. wtf

---

I read an interview with Jessica Gao in which she said episode 1 of She-Hulk was originally supposed to be episode 8, so I guess episode 2 was originally supposed to be episode 1..? Anyway, she didn't pin the decision to put Jen's origin story in the first episode on anyone in particular, but you can kind of see which way the wind is blowing, even if you can't see the wind. When she's asked about the VFX, Gao says,

Marvel is this kind of machine. VFX is one of those things where they already have their way of doing things. The machine just gets rolling. You can try to insert yourself as much as you can, but at a certain point, you’re forced to get out of the way.

Then, when asked about the show's budget,

Once we got into pre-production and production itself, once somebody had to sit down and start figuring out the cost of everything, it was like every week, I was told, “Can you cut more She-Hulk scenes? Can you change more She-Hulk scenes to Jen? Can she be Jen in more scenes?” There were a lot of things that then had to be changed at the last minute to go from She-Hulk to Jen. Even in post, you know, we had to cut a lot of shots by virtue just because it was She-Hulk.

This bit in particular - having to cut scenes with She-Hulk and use Maslany more - makes me wonder if that happened to Moon Knight, too. Obviously, I'm not opposed to seeing Oscar Isaac and Tatiana Maslany onscreen more, but if they made the showrunners rewrite their scripts and change their shooting schedules in the middle of production...

Then she talks about the change to the first episode:

The episode order was slightly different [in the original script] — we changed things up a little bit in post. Most of the pilot that you see was actually Episode 8. We waited until the very end of the season to really reveal her origin story.

There were several factors leading up to the decision, but really at the end of the day, we just realized people really wanted to know that information sooner. It was hard for them to not know the origin story and then get to know this character.

So that's not precisely what I said it was, above, but it still sounds to me like it was pretty much what I said it was. Maybe in a more roundabout way.

 

[tjs282]

I think you're being a bit grumpy, Egon.

I got a few giggles out of yesterday's episode, not least Bruce going all meta about being a "totally different person" back when he fought Abomination. That caught me so off guard, it would have made me spit my drink — if I'd been drinking.

Not sure if the episode's timeline made sense, though.

Spoiler Did I miss something bleeding obvious? :

So Jen visits Blonsky on the morning(?) of her first day at her new job, her new boss having told her that he wants to know by end-of-day if she's willing to take on Blonsky as a client. So she talks to Blonsky, then goes home and phones Bruce, then works on her strategy, then calls her boss back to say yes.

And in the time it takes her to do that, Blonsky (having giving no indication that this was his plan) not only somehow breaks out of this super-high-security jail (is that the same place Deadpool and Firefist were sent to?) — but also somehow manages to get halfway round the goddam world (Hong Kong? Singapore? Don't remember) in time to take part in Shang-Chi's long-lost sister's cage-fighting tournament that very same evening...?

 

[Cutlass]

Spoiler Also think... :

Second ep She-Hulk was a waste of effort.

 

[Kyriakos]

Shouldn't a meaningful superhero (to the degree it's possible for that to exist) at least have to face a struggle due to possessing superpowers? Otherwise it is just comedy, surely.
Then again, we already have Batman, who isn't even in possession of superpowers and is just a billionaire vigilante. At least She-Hulk is light-hearted.

 

[Synobun]

I liked the second episode, but I do share tjs's concern about the timeline.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Not sure if the episode's timeline made sense, though.

Spoiler Did I miss something bleeding obvious? :

So Jen visits Blonsky on the morning(?) of her first day at her new job, her new boss having told her that he wants to know by end-of-day if she's willing to take on Blonsky as a client. So she talks to Blonsky, then goes home and phones Bruce, then works on her strategy, then calls her boss back to say yes.

And in the time it takes her to do that, Blonsky (having giving no indication that this was his plan) not only somehow breaks out of this super-high-security jail (is that the same place Deadpool and Firefist were sent to?) — but also somehow manages to get halfway round the goddam world (Hong Kong? Singapore? Don't remember) in time to take part in Shang-Chi's long-lost sister's cage-fighting tournament that very same evening...?

I liked the second episode, but I do share tjs's concern about the timeline.

In Shang-Chi...

Spoiler :

Wong brought Abomination to HK through a portal. It was unclear whether he brought him back afterward, but I remember thinking at the time that it looked like he was taking him back into his cell.

Shouldn't a meaningful superhero (to the degree it's possible for that to exist) at least have to face a struggle due to possessing superpowers? Otherwise it is just comedy, surely.
Then again, we already have Batman, who isn't even in possession of superpowers and is just a billionaire vigilante. At least She-Hulk is light-hearted.

Yes, that was a big part of Stan Lee's reconceptualization of superheroes in the '60s, whereas comics had been more about 'gods among men' before that.

With She-Hulk, I'm interested to see whether they stick with Jen wanting to be Jen and not She-Hulk, or move towards her being She-Hulk all the time. In the comics, iirc, she preferred to be She-Hulk. I also think Jen/She-Hulk is more vulnerable than possibly any other MCU character has been, in terms of her personal life. The MCU has largely eschewed the concept of "secret identities." In Spider-Man: No Way Home we saw why superheroes used to do that more. She-Hulk isn't merely a public figure, everybody knows she's Jennifer Walters, and she had a totally normal life until a few minutes ago. If She-Hulk ever got into a tussle with a truly psychopathic villain (Killgrave; Hela; Ultron) or one of the villains with an organization around them (Wilson Fisk; Xu Wenwu; Alexander Pierce) her family & friends would be in serious trouble. Like, the U.S. Marshals "witness protection" program wouldn't be sufficient.

Spider-Man: No Way Home spoiler:

Spoiler :

Do Doctor Strange and Wong remember that Strange cast a spell to make everyone forget who Spider-Man really is? If so, one of them could do that again, for She-Hulk. And we already know that Wong is in the series.

 

[Cutlass]

Some new episodes of The Sandman up.

 

[Cutlass]

Latest ep of She-Hulk was a little better.


DId Ms Marvel or Moon Knight ever get better?

 

[Synobun]

DId Ms Marvel or Moon Knight ever get better?

Not in my opinion.

 

[Synobun]

Third episode of She-Hulk was great and funny. This is already the best of the MCU Disney+ series.

 

[Kyriakos]

Tim Roth on Returning to the MCU for 'She-Hulk': "It Was Difficult At First"

Tim Roth spoke about his decision to reprise his role from The Incredible Hulk in the upcoming Disney+ show She-Hulk.

collider.com

Tldr: for the money. He is 61 years old

 

[EgonSpengler]

Latest ep of She-Hulk was a little better.


DId Ms Marvel or Moon Knight ever get better?

Not in my opinion.

Agreed. The first ep of Ms. Marvel was great, and it kind of tailed off the rest of the way. The last ep picked up a bit, but by then, there was so much left to do it couldn't catch up. The first ep of Moon Knight was pretty good, and I liked episode 4 in part because by then I had given up on it actually being a show about Moon Knight, and the homage to The Mummy (1999) was fun.

 

[Evie]

I'm on the other side - I thought that episode 4-5 was the high point of Ms Marvel with 6 suffering a little from coming right after the Partition story of 4-5, a buffer episode to recenter the comflict with Damage Control might have been good there,

 

[Cutlass]

Latest Black Adam trailer.

 

[Cutlass]

Saw Thor: Love and Thunder last night. Enjoyed that quite a bit. Has some good old irreverence in it.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Good trailer. Seems kinda early for it, though.

Also, episode 4 of She-Hulk was great.

 

[Synobun]

Good trailer. Seems kinda early for it, though.

Also, episode 4 of She-Hulk was great.

I have... absolutely no idea what this is, and the trailer does not help.

I hope this isn't a Picard situation where they try to put a geriatric man into action scenes.