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Superheroes!

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by EgonSpengler, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Sensible, cohesive, believable, and internally-consistent, even within the context of a high-fantasy, super-science, metaphysical, or superpowered background, is no longer a real perquisite for modern "big budget Hollywood blockbusters" these days. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I'd say the movie makers there almost had a subtle derision toward, and contempt of, the concept.
     
  2. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    Making continuous references to the ending of the last movie while simultaneously being set before the last movie would be a major WTF moment. I think the MCU has done a pretty good job of being "sensible, cohesive, believable, and internally-consistent". Personal tastes may vary depending of course on one's ability to suspend disbelief. There are exceptions of course, most are minor, and most are done in the name of telling a compelling story.
     
  3. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    I guess what confused me was that, [Endgame spoiler]

    Spoiler :
    Ned, MJ and Flash all appear to have not aged 5 years. I would find it awfully convenient if all of the significant characters were victims of Thanos. I guess they could have Aunt May be a survivor - Marisa Tomei only ages 1 or 2 years out of every 5, anyway. But, yeah, the obvious references to Tony's death mean this has to take place after Endgame, unless the trailer's playing games and those scenes are from the film's epilogue, or something. I'm also hoping that Mysterio is a villain running a con, and the MCU 'multiverse' is a misdirect.
     
  4. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Finally got to see this:


    Spoiler Reply to first spoiler :

    I suspected from things that I couldn't avoid seeing that Steve ended up back in the past with Peggy. But it's more than a little handwavey that that wasn't known in the world. As in, how was it hid all those years?

    Tony's end seemed more of the fact that RDJ was the biggest star. So got to be the biggest hero. Rather than it making sense story wise.

    Natasha's death I think was right. Clint was the right person to be there, because even though she loved Bruce, she was closer to Clint, and he was a much more integral part of her life. And, more importantly, her redemption story. That's what her death was, the final verse of her redemption story. Although I think they missed an opportunity when she didn't say "I have red in my ledger". He had a family, she never would. She had to jump to save him. He was willing because of his guilt from Ronin. But he was the one who was needed alive.

    The huge battle was fairly well done. But there was so much going on, there was just too much to follow. The flashes of the individual people came and went too fast.

    I'm pretty much always wary of time travel in fiction. It is so very rarely done well. It's just too magic.




    Spoiler Spiderman :

    This is inconsistent. For everyone else in the universe, 5 years passed. For Spiderman and his friends, no time passed.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Endgame spoiler

    Spoiler :
    Discussion of secret Steve blasted back into the Peggy past really misses the timeline disruption problem. Thanos jumped nine years into the future and died. So there is no Thanos to collect the stones and kill half the universe in the first place. Now what? Compared to that who aged the five years and who skipped the five years is somewhat trivial, eh?
     
  6. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    The problem is, fiction that relies heavily on time travel as a plot mechanism (as well as the alternate history genre, which is technically separate, but has very similar problems) is always very sloppily and crudely done in a way I, at least, find less than satisfying. It's often not realized that if you changed a profound event, or several such events, in the past, it wouldn't just logically change things that only obviously derived back in an easily discernable way to those changes and things they directly effect, but most of the rest staying very similar - the time period you returned to would, by logic, by unrecognizable to you because so many variables would at stake - a veritable "butterfly affect."
     
  7. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Yeah, it's all very headache-inducing, which is a shame. They didn't even stick to what at first appeared to be an interesting take on the trope:
    Spoiler :
    When Bruce talked about how, when you travel back through time, for you the future is the past. I thought, in that moment, "Okay, they're trying to do something clever here." But then, as Tim says, bringing Thanos into the final battle from the past - and then dusting him - creates a paradox that the film doesn't even acknowledge. If they wanted to leave it unresolved, as a kind of cliffhanger, they might have included a line to tell the audience that at least the filmmakers know what a knot they just tied in their own story.

    I thought the tv show Timeless was a game effort at a time-travel story that dealt with some of the innate problems, and it was still convoluted.
     
  8. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    The new trailer for Batwoman. It really leans into the feminist stuff, but I'm okay with that. If you want subtle social commentary, Greg Berlanti's CW/DC shows come down somewhere behind Aaron Sorkin shows. :lol: The action looks pretty good, the design & photography appear inspired by both Tim Burton and Christopher Nolan's movies. I'm still not sold on Ruby Rose as an actor, but I guess I didn't know a lot of the other Berlantiverse casts, either. I've no idea who the villain is. Maybe she's from the comics, I never read Batwoman.

     
  9. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    That's partially based on the graphic novel Batwoman: Elegy, by Greg Rucka, which seems to which seems to be the foundation canon of the Batwoman stuff I've seen, and critically acclaimed at that. And that explains the blonde. But in that canon Batwoman has no relationship with Batman. In some older Batman stories Bruce's mother is Martha Kane Wayne. Which is what this series is apparently basing the cousin stuff on. But in the Rucka Batwoman stuff both of Kate's parents are Army officers, and the money backing Batwoman is from her father's second wife, after Kate's mother is killed. Kate is not raised rich, until her father remarries. So that would make Bruce's mother a cousin to a family who isn't rich, but is instead "Army aristocracy". Which is inconsistent with the portrayal of Martha Wayne as a Blue Blood. So they seem to have gone with a mashup of backgrounds. And Bruce Wayne is normally portrayed as having no living family after his parents are killed. Otherwise, why is Alfred the guardian?

    All this being done in a Gotham without Batman is probably just necessary because the CW can't afford the rights to a Batman show.
     
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  10. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    It's valid that time travel in fiction is almost always done poorly. And this is no exception. Now I was fairly certain before this movie was even filmed that they'd be doing time travel as their resolution. Ultimately the creators of it just hope they've made the story good enough so that the errors of it aren't big enough to turn the viewers off, and that the rest of it works well enough to keep them happy. :dunno:
     
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  11. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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  13. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    I've never seen Pattinson in anything, so he's something of a blank slate for me. Twilight aside, he looks like an indie guy. I want to see High Life, Claire Denis' sci-fi movie, and I've had The Lost City of Z in my queue for ages. He's done 2 Cronenberg movies. I used to be a massive Cronenberg fan (I even saw Crash in the theater) but it looks like Pattinson hooked up with him after I drifted away. He also dated FKA Twigs for a while, which I can respect. He looks younger than he is and I'm surprised to read that he's a couple years older than Bale was in Batman Begins.

    As Tim says, I'm more dubious about another Warner Bros Batman movie, in general, than I am about Pattinson specifically. Matt Reeves has directed Cloverfield, Let Me In, and War for the Planet of the Apes, which isn't a bad CV, I guess. He's said that he envisions a kind of neo-noir detective story, and the "World's Greatest Detective" version of Batman is one we've yet to see on film. And Batman movies have recovered from a nose-dive before. He's clearly our #1 superhero, and a malleable, resilient character, so there's some reason for cautious optimism.
     
  14. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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  15. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Is anyone still watching The Flash? I've only seen a couple of eps this year, but I've heard that this season has been a slog, so I haven't gone back. But it looks like they've done precisely what I predicted they might: The time-travel meddling has caused the dateline on the newspaper - "Flash Missing" - to change from 2024 to 2019. Perhaps the season finale is worth watching, if only as a prologue to Crisis on Infinite Earths.

     
  16. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    There seems to be conflicting reports.

     
  17. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    I don't believe so. The articles I read all pretty much say it's not "official". The title of my linked article is a bit misleading, though. But, if you read it, it states:
     
  18. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Collider claims that Matt Reeves' Batman movie will feature Catwoman and The Penguin. They cite a Hollywood Reporter newsletter, but I can't find the news on THR's own website, which makes me wonder. Anyway, I would like to see a Batman villain who hasn't already gotten a ton of screen-time, but off the top of my head, I'm not sure who that'd be. As long as it's not The Joker again, I guess I'm alright with whomever. :lol: It's more important that the movie is good. (I wouldn't mind seeing a really good Mister Freeze or Poison Ivy, even though I don't know what a really good Mister Freeze or Poison Ivy would look like.)
     
  19. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Mind, I would be quite alright with Catwoman and The Penguin as villains. I quite enjoyed Batman Returns in the day, back in the very early '90's, and those two were among my favourite recurring villains on the Adam West TV series (which I used to watch the reruns of along with the cheesy '60's Spider-Man cartoon with the stock animation and the catchy theme song when I was much younger).
     
  20. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    I've stuck with it through thick and thin, and IMO there's been very little thin. I'd call it one of my favorite shows. No actors I consider annoying, no shortage of plot threads, not terribly repetitious. The finale did set up a gigantic shake up for next season, so we'll have to see where it goes, but I'm looking forward to it.
     

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