Survey Poll- 5CC

[greekguy]

there's been a lot of debate whether we should do a 5CC variant for the next DG. since some people are convinced everyone will be bored with it and some are convinced it will help with roleplaying, i figured a poll could help straighten this out. hopefully this poll will figure out if people who are currently playing the DG now, would be interested in doing this next DG.

 

[vikingruler]

I don't agree with a 5CC, IMO it is not very good for a DemoGame. Since there are only going to be 5 cities, there will only be 5 governors, controlling one city each. Also, offices won't have as much work, aside from External. For instance, Culture will only be accountable for 5 cities, which is going to be a lot easier to do than now.

 

[zyxy]

This is somewhat difficult to decide right now. Depending on map parameters, difficulty level, preferred victory condition and such, a restriction to 5 cities may or may not have a large impact on the game. I do fear that it will very much limit the options we will have in playing the game, in particular that (in most cases) it will necessitate fairly "optimal" gameplay. Also, people who have played this (I haven't) say it's boring.
I do think limiting number of cities might be interesting, mainly because it will leave some land for the AI, but maybe 5 is a too small number. Maybe it should be tied in with corruption levels or so, I don't know.

For this reason I will vote "no", somewhat reluctantly. It's really too early to tell, I think. Maybe we can wait a few days for our citizens to come up with other interesting variant rules....

 

[Strider]

I've outlined my reasons for not liking a 5cc already. As vikingruler and Zyxy said, a 5cc does not seem like a very good idea in a demogame environment.

 

[Provolution]

If anything, 5CC will be a feast for the numbercrunchers, as all five cities must be run optimally. In my opinion, 5 CC is nothing but a glorified succession game and not a Civilization Democracy Game with room for competititon and deviating politics.

 

[GenMarshall]

I felt the reasonings from zyxy, Provolution, and Strider are enough to what I agree with and felt that there is nothing new to add.

Of course, I voted no to a 5CC.

 

[Nobody]

Yeah, im not into the whole 5 city challenges. it seems to boring

 

[DaveShack]

This type of decision is hard to make in a vacuum, and polling it this way is perilous for both sides. A yes vote here could be used by proponents of a 5CC as evidence that the people want to play that way, to the detriment of other potentially good ideas which might come along later. A no vote might unfairly take 5CC off the table and eliminate it from consideration later, when there might be reasons we need to reconsider.

I will interpret this poll to be "would 5CC be your choice from a potentially large number of possible game variants" and vote no because there are other ideas I would rather see instead of this one, if enough people choose them.

There are really several degrees of response for all these variant things, we should consider looking for a way to gauge them accurately:

1. Will move heaven and earth to play this kind of game
2. Would prefer this kind of game over others but not rabid about it.
3. Would think this game is a good choice but could be swayed by a better choice
4. Indifferent to this type of game
5. Don't like this kind of game but would consider it if no better alternatives available
6. Really don't like this type of game but willing to play instead of walking away
7. Hate the variant and absolutely won't play it, see you next game

 

[Black_Hole]

If anything, 5CC will be a feast for the numbercrunchers, as all five cities must be run optimally. In my opinion, 5 CC is nothing but a glorified succession game and not a Civilization Democracy Game with room for competititon and deviating politics.

they don't need to be run optimally, I play 5CCs and I hate micromanaging... plus your first 5 cities make up a majority of your shields and incomes on a medium map

 

[Black_Hole]

Yeah, im not into the whole 5 city challenges. it seems to boring

its anything but boring, in regular huge games, the DP spends how many hours playing in the mid-late game(last game we had TCs a day long), in this variant there are no boring TCs as they last much less
plus governors dont need to worry about 10+ cities, just 1.... it makes the game easier, simpler, and faster

of course most the opponents are people who have never played a 5CC, if you are in doubt trying playing a 5CC, 1 level lower than your usual difficulty on a normal map to try it out... so you arent saying no to something you have never even attempted

 

[Ginger_Ale]

One thing is for sure: I'm not playing another boring, regular Civ3 game with no variant or differing issue whatsoever. 5 was a bit many, 6 is too much. Let's do something different.

For all those who voted no: what do you propose we do instead? Another epic game - like all the previous 6 demogames?

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

@GA: Thank you.

To those who voted no (other than Strider, as he's proposed things), please propose something.

 

[Black_Hole]

One thing is for sure: I'm not playing another boring, regular Civ3 game with no variant or differing issue whatsoever. 5 was a bit many, 6 is too much. Let's do something different.

For all those who voted no: what do you propose we do instead? Another epic game - like all the previous 6 demogames?

I agree, you won't be seeing me around here if we do another epic game... there is no draw

also we need a short game, since a culture win is being force down our throats, this game will end mid august - early september.... thats only 2 monthes away from civ4, so a long epic game will have no participation in the later part of it, a 5CC shortens the game largely

 

[DaveShack]

Check out my list of alternatives in the preliminary DG7 planning thread -- and add your own if it's not on the list. There are plenty of possibilities, it's a matter of finding one that the most people can live with.

 

[Double Stack]

There are really several degrees of response for all these variant things, we should consider looking for a way to gauge them accurately:

1. Will move heaven and earth to play this kind of game
2. Would prefer this kind of game over others but not rabid about it.
3. Would think this game is a good choice but could be swayed by a better choice
4. Indifferent to this type of game
5. Don't like this kind of game but would consider it if no better alternatives available
6. Really don't like this type of game but willing to play instead of walking away
7. Hate the variant and absolutely won't play it, see you next game

My reason for voting NO will be number 4 "Indifferent to this type of game".

 

[Bertie]

I think this poll is premature. We haven’t sufficiently discussed the pros and cons of 5CC IMO.

Anyway, I like the idea of a 5CC. The easiest way to win this is either through diplomacy or space victory, and both require a builder and researcher interest. I think most people here like this sort of game. Look at our current game: we’ve extended the time to achieve a cultural victory by at least a month because of our fascination with researching numerous techs at a high rate after we discovered Steam Power (and we didn’t really even need that in order to win). This isn’t a criticism; it’s just an observation that an emphasis on research and building is what seems to make most of us happy.

For those that object to the limited number of cities or other restrictions of 5CC – and their objections are valid and need to be considered – we could consider a 5CC variant. Perhaps 5CCx2 which would allow us to build a second core of 5 cities on another continent, centered around the FP (this would also allow us to build the FP; in order for this to work we’ll probably have to play in PTW, though). Or we could set conquest as our victory objective; I haven’t played such a game, but I would think it would be somewhat difficult, particularly if played on a higher level (Deity).

I’m voting for a 5CC, but it’s not necessary to my happiness that we play this variant; I’d be content playing other variants or an epic game as well. However, I question how much confidence we should have that we’d be happy playing any variant. Look at our current game: we’ve been set on a cultural victory since Term 1, and repeated polls have reaffirmed that the people want this victory (this isn’t being “forced” down our throats). What confidence should any of us have that we’ll be successful at 5CC or any other variant when there’s considerable pressure to abandon the goal of our current game because it’s “boring” or “hard” or “we’re not playing right” or a “turn-off to participation” or whatever? Any variant by definition limits and controls what we can and cannot do. If we find it difficult to stick to a simple discipline like winning a cultural game, do we have the fortitude to play a more restrictive variant game?

 

[Black_Hole]

well this poll does show that there is great interest for a 5CC, so it should not be ruled out

 

[GenMarshall]

There are really several degrees of response for all these variant things, we should consider looking for a way to gauge them accurately:

1. Will move heaven and earth to play this kind of game
2. Would prefer this kind of game over others but not rabid about it.
3. Would think this game is a good choice but could be swayed by a better choice
4. Indifferent to this type of game
5. Don't like this kind of game but would consider it if no better alternatives available
6. Really don't like this type of game but willing to play instead of walking away
7. Hate the variant and absolutely won't play it, see you next game

Since Double Stack has used Dave's chart. I should follow suit. My reasons for voting no is "Hate the varians and absolutely wont play it."

 

[Black_Hole]

Since Double Stack has used Dave's chart. I should follow suit. My reasons for voting no is "Hate the varians and absolutely wont play it."

see this is the problem, you don't want to play any variant, all you want to play is an epic game... Many people will not be playing next game if it is a regular epic game

 

[Double Stack]

A lot of people still want to play an epic game, including me. I just want some more flavor to the game rather than just trying to get one of the chosen victory.