Sweden

[nokmirt]

I have a feeling their will be some new promotions for some of these new UUs, to keep them unique from each other.

The Hakkapeliitta...I feel they should have a new promotion similar to Formation I, but instead gives a +25% combat bonus vs infantry, instead of mounted.

The Carolean...I would not give them a march promotion. What I would do is give them a discipline or morale booster of some sort. The strength of Caroleans was their bravery under fire, in order to get in close enough to hit their enemy with a devasting volley from very short range. Probably a new promotion would be needed to give them this type of bonus.

The Nobel Peace Prize...I am not sure what to think about this, especially after Barack Obama recieved one. Does it really stand for peace? In my eyes not likely, it seems moreso a diplomatic or political motivated award. In GnK it is called Nobel Prize which has several categories.

It could add a bonus to diplomatic relations, or generate a GP. Maybe add length to peace treaties. Maybe it will reduce the cost of gaining SPs.

My guess is that it will be some completely new bonus, perhaps a financial bonus of some sort. Maybe it reduces taxes on roads/railroads/tile improvements etc (someone told me once that you don't pay maintenance on tile improvements, but I always did in my games.). It would be interesting if you can award another country with one of several categories of Nobel prizes and gain a bonus relating to that award, in science, diplo relations, culture etc, for so many turns. Once you give that prize away then thats it, it is gone. So, they should be used at opputune times. IDK just a wild guess.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

There are Nobel prizes for contributions to science and literature among other things. It doesn't have to be a Peace Prize.

 

[Kimuyama]

Everyone thought giving Obama the peace prize was controversial. But, as that is the only one of the prizes handed out by Norway, that's not Sweden's problem xD.
The other prizes are for Chemistry, Physics, Physiology or Medicine, and Literature- for Great Scientists and Great Artists, in civ terms, but I don't think they will limit the UA to those two.

 

[elprofesor]

Good enough?

GOOD ENOUGH???

You seem to forget that caroleans will (probably) be musketmen replacements, i.e. one of the worst choices for a replacement, since musketmen are built from scratch, are expensive, and they aren't noticeably stronger than the units coming before it. Plus, longswordmen already have some promotions when you upgrade them from swordmen, and the amount of gold you need for the upgrade is much smaller than that for rush-buying a janissary army.

Just compare a 3-move marching musketmen to a janissary. I'd rather have the janissary: it's extra health when defeating a unit is comparable -or downright better- than a march promotion (plus, it's a unique promotion, so you still get to get march if you want to), but their +20% strength when attacking is a better bonus than an extra move that will become obsolete when you upgrade the unit. And even though janissaries are easily one of the top three unique units, Ottomans are still regarded as one of the three worst civs.

March is good, but not as godlike as you make it sound, with the exceptions of a nearby medic unit (and then you are giving up a promotion for that unit, and it will require lots of maneuvering), being on your own empire (but a defensive bonus is worse than an offensive one), and when capturing a city (which is indeed very nice, albeit rare).

An extra move isn't as good as an extra range. Not even close. You can see loads of unique units with mobility bonuses, but only ONE with an extra range... See the berserker: sure, they get an extra movement point, but that alone isn't the reason they are so good; they get amphibious, they can pillage without spending movement points, they get super fast disembarking invasions AND they have extra strength; but danes have zero economic boni to compensate for that (unless you are willing to defend that free pillage is an economic bonus with a straight face).

All in all, I believe that a 3-move marching musketmen replacement would be good, but not THAT good.

The other prizes are for Chemistry, Physics, Physiology or Medicine, and Literature- for Great Scientists and Great Artists, in civ terms, but I don't think they will limit the UA to those two.

There's also the not-officially-a-Nobel-prize-but-still-considered-as-such Economy Nobel Prize.

 

[nokmirt]

Everyone thought giving Obama the peace prize was controversial. But, as that is the only one of the prizes handed out by Norway, that's not Sweden's problem xD.
The other prizes are for Chemistry, Physics, Physiology or Medicine, and Literature- for Great Scientists and Great Artists, in civ terms, but I don't think they will limit the UA to those two.

True, I did read that Norway hands that out. I did not realize, as I never paid attention to Nobel prizes much. I think that the UA should somehow involve all the awards in civ terms, to benefit Sweden in the game. The question is how?

 

[king Oosterveld]

i read somewhere that the bonus works like this (strait from a beta tester): for each strong ally you have, both of you generate a boost in each great person production. if might have been from gamespy, ill check later

 

[GoodSarmatian]

My uess about their UA is actually quite unoriginal.
As we know a couple of policies will be reworked. Again !
So my guess is that Educated Elite will be changed and Sweden will get a beefed up version of the old bonus: Occasional Great People from allied and maybe even friendly city states.
The diplomacy part of the bility could be that Sweden doesn't receive a relationship hit with other civs for competing over the same CS.

 

[nokmirt]

i read somewhere that the bonus works like this (strait from a beta tester): for each strong ally you have, both of you generate a boost in each great person production. if might have been from gamespy, ill check later

Aha! That sounds good. In terms of reality the awards motivate sholars etc, to stand out above the rest. You have to be allied with the other civs though? Like a defensive pact, or maybe they are adding true alliances to the game. I would like to see civs be able to ally and help each other after DoWing another civ, or being DoWed on. True alliances are missing from the game, they would make diplomacy much more interesting IMO.

 

[king Oosterveld]

Aha! That sounds good. In terms of reality the awards motivate sholars etc, to stand out above the rest. You have to be allied with the other civs though? Like a defensive pact, or maybe they are adding true alliances to the game. I would like to see civs be able to ally and help each other after DoWing another civ, or being DoWed on. True alliances are missing from the game, they would make diplomacy much more interesting IMO.

the boost would come from someone you have a deceleration of friendship with. another observation from the Sweden pic, i see that there are composite bowman, but no crossbowman and the player is in the Renascence era. in noticed in the PAX viewing of the game that they were in the early game. what happened to crossbowman?

 

[Haig]

I'd make the Hakkapeliitta bonus apply to the unit stacked with a GG only, so the hakkapeliitta+gg unit would be fighting in the frontline with a risk - kind of how Gustavus Adolphus met his end.

 

[nokmirt]

the boost would come from someone you have a deceleration of friendship with. another observation from the Sweden pic, i see that there are composite bowman, but no crossbowman and the player is in the Renascence era. in noticed in the PAX viewing of the game that they were in the early game. what happened to crossbowman?

Crossbowmen are still there. They have said for awhile now that they upgrade to the gatling gun.

I'd make the Hakkapeliitta bonus apply to the unit stacked with a GG only, so the hakkapeliitta+gg unit would be fighting in the frontline with a risk - kind of how Gustavus Adolphus met his end.

I agree with the idea. Adolphus knew that you have to take risks as a commander. He just happened to lose that particular gamble which cost him his life, but he did have the right idea. It is an interesting point in history, because the Battle of Lützen was won after the commander of the army was killed. However, the Thirty Years War ended with the death of Adolphus, the Protestants did not have that all encompassing figure to unite them against the Catholics in Germany.

 

[Haig]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=461808
Nobel Prize confirmed as:

Get 90 Influence with City-states when gifting them Great Persons. When declaring friendship, Sweden and his friend get 10% to Great Person production

I love how Sweden are 50% peaceful nobel prize harmony, 50% asskicking.

So what does this mean in game strategy terms?

****

and to nokmirt,
I'm really looking forward to Into the Renaissance scenario,
with so many civs in it it's going to be really epic(a word overused these days but in this occasion it's justified!)

 

[MadDjinn]

So what does this mean in game strategy terms?

hmm, it could be a few things early game.

If the GG is still 2 SPs into Honour, then I can see going Honour to get the GG and toss it at a Religious CS to get faith faster to drive a religion. Not a great long term thing, unless you get great pics that coincide with finishing Honour.

Or toss excess Prophets if you're 'really' being peaceful (no religion game) to those cultural or mercantile CSs and speed through SPs or mass expand.

 

[Raiki]

Honestly, I can see myself easily throwing my excess prophets, generals, artists and admirals (that is the naval one, right?) at CSs, rather than burn them on a much more temporary bonus via golden age.


~R~

 

[Haig]

Good tips. What came to my mind also that doesn't include gifting the GPs, is
declaring lots of friendships ->
having a strong GP generation ->
building loads of Great Improvements with GPs ->
finishing Piety tree that boosts already poweful Holy site improvements.

So far the European civs look to be my favorite and very interesting: Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Byzantine

 

[Raiki]

Eesh. I didn't even think about dropping all those GP on tiles and going freedom. That could be a pretty powerful strategy. Though it would only really work on larger maps, *and* only if you could befriend most of the other civs, *and* only if the +10% is cumulative and not capped, *and*...

Yeah, conditionally powerful, but (from what I'm seeing so far) not really something to build a strategy around.

 

[MadDjinn]

Good tips. What came to my mind also that doesn't include gifting the GPs, is
declaring lots of friendships ->
having a strong GP generation ->
building loads of Great Improvements with GPs ->
finishing Piety tree that boosts already poweful Holy site improvements.

yup, could work in a hard core religion build.

It also means that you can toss a merchant at a CS that's locked behind another civ.

(merchants if they're still 30 INF + gold equal to ~500g for more INF).

 

[Montov]

Great way to enhance diplomacy! The gifting of Great Persons is something we need to play with, but not looking really useful.

 

[Montov]

I'd make the Hakkapeliitta bonus apply to the unit stacked with a GG only, so the hakkapeliitta+gg unit would be fighting in the frontline with a risk - kind of how Gustavus Adolphus met his end.

Likely, but the question is wat bonus would it be.

Maybe we are thinking about it in the wrong direction. Maybe it's not the unit benefiting from the GG, but the GG benefiting from the unit. The bonus could be to use a Great General as a regular unit, giving you one extra military unit.
But thinking like that only makes it more believable that the UU will have double attack, one of it's own, and one beause of the GG.

 

[elprofesor]

With educated elite (patronage), Sweden now has something to do with those GP that appear 14 turns away from your empire...