Tactics and Strategy Turns 70-80

[Indiansmoke]

Thanks for comments guys. For the next xouple of turns we are most likely to want to:

1) Keep tech at 0% to build up cash. So we still have a few days to discuss tech choice.
2) Use workers to road to the floodplain of Osk. This will be needed if we want city at iron or corn-gold spots. And after that they should farm the FP as Osk's borders will have popped. So we have maybe 5 rl days to decide city location.
3) Worker on deer finishes this turn, so Aktau should switch to use deer. After that worker should move towards Oskemen (no need to road deer)
4) After Great Scientist is born Haz should remove scientist and work both mines to produce settler ASAP

I think the above points are the general consensus (only question mark being on point 4 perhaps)

The only contentious issue coming up immediately is: do we whip worker in Pav?

I think we should whip for 1 pop to get worker quicker. We will lose the mined hill for a few turns but we can put overflow into a chariot. If Pav grows to size 5 it will be working unimproved tiles.

Having a worker means we can start improving around Pav quicker as the other workers are needed elsewhere. With the worker we can farm the grassland forest to get the chop after we have maths.

I agree with all these except point 3. worker needs to farm corn in actau before moving on (if he even needs to move on, as chopping after farming workes well). So we might as well road in the meantime.

 

[Kaleb]

I agree with all these except point 3. worker needs to farm corn in actau before moving on (if he even needs to move on, as chopping after farming workes well). So we might as well road in the meantime.

If you want to farm the corn then better to move up and cottage for one turn on the grassland NE of the corn, and then road the corn, the borders will then pop in time to farm the corn after the road is done.

 

[Indiansmoke]

If you want to farm the corn then better to move up and cottage for one turn on the grassland NE of the corn, and then road the corn, the borders will then pop in time to farm the corn after the road is done.

why road the corn? we already have corn..it is deer that we don't have.

 

[damnrunner]

Thanks for comments guys. For the next xouple of turns we are most likely to want to:

1) Keep tech at 0% to build up cash. So we still have a few days to discuss tech choice.
2) Use workers to road to the floodplain of Osk. This will be needed if we want city at iron or corn-gold spots. And after that they should farm the FP as Osk's borders will have popped. So we have maybe 5 rl days to decide city location.
3) Worker on deer finishes this turn, so Aktau should switch to use deer. After that worker should move towards Oskemen (no need to road deer)
4) After Great Scientist is born Haz should remove scientist and work both mines to produce settler ASAP

I think the above points are the general consensus (only question mark being on point 4 perhaps)

The only contentious issue coming up immediately is: do we whip worker in Pav?

I think we should whip for 1 pop to get worker quicker. We will lose the mined hill for a few turns but we can put overflow into a chariot. If Pav grows to size 5 it will be working unimproved tiles.

Having a worker means we can start improving around Pav quicker as the other workers are needed elsewhere. With the worker we can farm the grassland forest to get the chop after we have maths.

I would be the question on point 4. Working the mines will help us build a granary, but my understanding is that we are not going to grow another pop too soon. Therefore I don't seen the benefit of a faster granary.

 

[Kaleb]

why road the corn? we already have corn..it is deer that we don't have.

Health isn't an issue, and corn is a +2 resource with Granary, so it's a good surplus resource we can use to trade with when Sailing is available. Preferably in exchange for a happy resource.

Alternatively, if we don't road, we can improve the wine and then come back to the corn, as Aktau will still have improved tiles to work up until pop 4.

I would be the question on point 4. Working the mines will help us build a granary, but my understanding is that we are not going to grow another pop too soon. Therefore I don't seen the benefit of a faster granary.

We'll be building a settler, not a granary, as soon as our pop grows.

 

[damnrunner]

We'll be building a settler, not a granary, as soon as our pop grows.

I see.

Could you give a rough estimate of how long it would take to build the settler with 0, 1, or 2 specialists. Thanks.

 

[cav scout]

1) When are we going to turn the tech rate back up? Going back up to 100% means Monotheism in 4 turns. The faster we get Mono the quicker we change civics to Monarchy and Organized Religion... BUT we want Judaism to found in our new commerce city (city 5 ). So timing is important- Confu should spread to Oskemen soon naturally so we can finish Mono as soon as the commerce city is founded. Perhaps we will end up putting a few turns of beakers towards Aesthetics while we wait for the gold city to found...

2) What about a cottage on the flood plain instead of a farm? The tile is going to belong to the commerce city anyways, even if Oskemen works it for a while. One extra food isn't worth the worker time lost farming and then changing to a cottage later.

3) I think we should road the deer while we are there- no point diverting a worker back down there later and wasting a turn to move back onto the forest.

4) We should test how running 0-1-2 scientists effects tech/gp rate vs. settler production/city growth. With the academy next turn my instincts are to continue running scientists to cash in on the 50% bonus and get another GS to bulb Philosophy before S&S can get it... BUT we really need our iron city ASAP (right after commerce city imo).

 

[cav scout]

Ok I did a test game and I figured out how to:

*Found the commerce city on the Syr Darya and Judaism (in the commerce city) on turn 79

*Found the iron city with the confucian missionary on turn 82!

The key is switching from worker to settler in Pav now. We then whip the Aktau settler on turn 77 and the Pav settler for 2 pop on turn 78. Haz can build a worker after pop 7 instead of a settler.

For the tech plan we switch to Masonry now and go one turn at 0%. We then increase to 100% and get Masonry in 2 turns. We then tech Monotheism for 1 turn, switch to Aesthetics for 1 turn, and then back to Monotheism to finish it just after we found city 5 near the gold. Confucianism will have already spread automatically to Oskemen so that means Judaism founds in city 5

 

[Indiansmoke]

@ Cav scout...plan sounds nice! We will be a bit sort of workers but will have iron sooner I guess.

BTW, we want judaism in Pavlodar as well, not other city...2 shrines in same city will be awesome.

@ Kaleb....why did you take the option in the rebellion event?....I thought it was pretty clear that if teams wanted to discart bad events, they would alt tab to desktop and close the game with ctrl alt del.

EDIT: it seems it is not that clear about the rule yet!

 

[donsig]

We could bring it up in the UN and make it clear.

 

[damnrunner]

I just recalled an earlier discussion we had about spies. It seems that barbarians will be hampering our exploration efforts as we have needed more defense units than I think we initially anticipated.

However, even when we do send a few units off exploring, they will make slow progress as they will need to heal every few turns.

For this reason a spy or two would be able to move much quicker and also has the advantage of letting us explore our opponent’s territory.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I just recalled an earlier discussion we had about spies. It seems that barbarians will be hampering our exploration efforts as we have needed more defense units than I think we initially anticipated.

However, even when we do send a few units off exploring, they will make slow progress as they will need to heal every few turns.

For this reason a spy or two would be able to move much quicker and also has the advantage of letting us explore our opponent’s territory.

It makes sense and I agree to use a spy at this point, they are the best sentries anyway, since the opponent is not aware that you have seen them comming

 

[Garand]

I agree with pretty much everything on here, especially utilizing spies and turning out some defensive units to deal with barbarians and any other surprises. I definitely think we need to either found or designate a military city soon, and work towards metal casting for forges.

I also think it's a good idea to put cottages on the flood plains rather than farms for our commerce cities. You lose valuable growth time on cottages if farm it first and then decide to go back and put in a cottage... we can always change it to a farm later if necessary.

I also agree with putting a road to the deer, and if we have a spare worker, building a road out to where the iron site will be. Only problem with that idea is that we don't really have any spare units to escort it.

I'm kind of anxious to know what our near-future plans are for tech. I know we are treaty bound with Cav for some of it, and monotheism would be great for organized religion, but I'm not familiar with what our goals are for researching aesthetics. Can anyone fill me in?

 

[donsig]

We want aesthetics and then literature so we can build the Great Library and deprive SANCTA of that pleasure. Also, our treaty includes the Mad Scientists as well as Team Cav.

 

[Kaleb]

SANCTA also need writing and polytheism first before they can tech to Aest and Lit, we're pretty comfortable for GL still.

On tactics: where should we build spy? How about building spy in Aktau after settler? We could also build a wb in Aktau next to save the iron city building it.

 

[damnrunner]

Building plans for each city in the near future.

Haz
Build academy
Switch from granary to settler (reassign scientists to work the mines)
Eventually build the GL
What do we want to do in Haz before the GL?
Some options are reassign the scientists to bulb Philo, continue on the granary, build a monastery, build units of some flavor.

Pavlo – finish worker then…?
I say we build a spy here next

Aktu – finish settler, then …?
I say we build a temple so that we can start running a priest as soon as possible.
Could also build a WB to help the iron city grow, I like this too.

Osk – Finish chariot, then…?
I say we build more chariots!

 

[Kaleb]

Yes, a temple in Aktau is probably the next best build option after the Settler is done. And we should whip the settler ASAP, pop will recover in no time.

 

[cav scout]

@Smoke:

We don't want two holy cities in a production city which it what everyone wants for Pav. The only reason we founded confucianism in Pav was that it was the best choice at the time.

We want our next holy city in our super commerce city that will have all those cottaged flood plains and Market/Grocer/Stock exchange/Wall Street/Spiral Minaret.

Plus I don't think we can get Judaism to found in Pav anyways since its already a holy city. So unless we set it up to found in the commerce city it will end up in Oskemen or Aktau- not desireable.

@Everyone:

1. Can we get consensus on founding Judaism in the commerce city?

2. Has anyone tested my suggestion of switching from a settler to a worker in Pav and then whipping the settler 1 turn after we whip the settler in Aktau? This allows us to found Judaism in our commerce city and gets us the Iron much quicker.

Instead of a settler Haz can build a worker so there is no loss of workers. The only opportunity cost is 2 pop in Pav which regenerates very quickly. This is TOTALLY worth it to get the critical Iron city sooner.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yes, a temple in Aktau is probably the next best build option after the Settler is done. And we should whip the settler ASAP, pop will recover in no time.

Temple in Actau? we want chariot not expensive buildings....1 hapiness from temple is irrelevant at this point..we want more military to deal with barbs and puch to the center.

As for running a priest...a sole priest will take 50 turns to pop...can we wait 50 turns to get a priest without getting another great person?

 

[Indiansmoke]

@Smoke:

We don't want two holy cities in a production city which it what everyone wants for Pav. The only reason we founded confucianism in Pav was that it was the best choice at the time.

We want our next holy city in our super commerce city that will have all those cottaged flood plains and Market/Grocer/Stock exchange/Wall Street/Spiral Minaret.

Plus I don't think we can get Judaism to found in Pav anyways since its already a holy city. So unless we set it up to found in the commerce city it will end up in Oskemen or Aktau- not desireable.

@Everyone:

1. Can we get consensus on founding Judaism in the commerce city?

2. Has anyone tested my suggestion of switching from a settler to a worker in Pav and then whipping the settler 1 turn after we whip the settler in Aktau? This allows us to found Judaism in our commerce city and gets us the Iron much quicker.

Instead of a settler Haz can build a worker so there is no loss of workers. The only opportunity cost is 2 pop in Pav which regenerates very quickly. This is TOTALLY worth it to get the critical Iron city sooner.

We wanted holy city in actau exactly because it has high production and can build all those buildings fast. Also there is only 1 wall street, and having the benefit of getting a double holly city to put it on is massive.