Talk about a difficult sell....

[Little Raven]

The esteemed Mr. Greenspan gave a talk last week, in which he stressed that the United States is developing a real problem in the form of the income gap.

Inequality of incomes is the "critical area where capitalist systems are most vulnerable," Greenspan said yesterday in Washington at a conference on maintaining the competitiveness of US capital markets convened by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. "You cannot have a system that we have unless the people who participate in it believe it is just."

I can’t disagree with the ex-Chairman here. Income inequality is a problem in all systems, but especially in Democratic ones. We don’t have the luxury of nerve-stapling the unruly.

I’m not sure I buy into his solution, though.

Allowing more skilled workers into the country would bring down the salaries of top earners in the United States, easing tensions over the mounting wage gap, Greenspan said.

"Our skilled wages are higher than anywhere in the world," he said. "If we open up a significant window for skilled workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end the concentration of income.

Now, I agree that my wife and I (skilled workers) make considerably more than my sister-in-law and her family (unskilled workers) even though they work far harder than we do. I agree that something about that situation strikes me as terribly wrong. I most certainly agree that the gap cannot continue to grow. But I confess I’m not overly eager for a pay cut.

Can you picture ANY politician running on that platform?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Too much blood is rushing to Greenspans nose.The only reason we have to import workers from abroad is that we're too cheap to pay people on the bottom economic rung a living wage. By bringing the workers here, we're just insourcing the outsourcing, if that makes any sense. A better alternative would be to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

You cannot have a system that we have unless the people who participate in it believe it is just.

Under what system would everyone who participates in it believe it to be just?

 

[El_Machinae]

I think he's talking about doctors, engineers, lawyers, and the like; not manual labourers.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Yeah youre right, but the same principle applies. Pay a decent wage. Whether theyre looking into test tubes, or washing dishes, the only reason why the private sector loves immigrants is because theyre able to pay them less than Americans.

 

[warpus]

His solution might not be popular, but it might work.

 

[Whomp]

Interesting when it's not your job or your children's job at risk or pressured. How does the IT or engineering student feel when that job at GE is not available?
It's no skin off my back since my job is merit based but it would suck to be an engineer.

We undoubtedly need skilled labor in areas of shortage like nursing (~300,000 shortage?). We should also pahse out family based preferences for adult sibilings and adult children. Let them come under job based visas instead of family preference visas.

 

[Masquerouge]

Manual/unskilled labor is one of the biggest problems of the most developed societies. It basically shouldn't be there anymore, mostly because less developed countries can do it for much cheaper and much more efficiently, yet we don't have the technology to completely replace it, and we're far from ready to completely outsource it.
Hence, inequality of income is IMO structural to our societies.

 

[WillJ]

If you want to reduce political concern, it would be better to deal with the problem by helping to raise the wages of the lowest earners, by helping to improve productivity and raising the minimum wage.

Um, if the goal is to raise the bottom without lowering the top (since this would be more politically viable than Greenspan's suggestion), how exactly would raising the minimum wage do that?

 

[Lotus49]

Interesting when it's not your job or your children's job at risk or pressured. How does the IT or engineering student feel when that job at GE is not available?
It's no skin off my back since my job is merit based but it would suck to be an engineer.

We undoubtedly need skilled labor in areas of shortage like nursing (~300,000 shortage?). We should also pahse out family based preferences for adult sibilings and adult children. Let them come under job based visas instead of family preference visas.

Or, according to the plan I have, what if we just stay at home and trade stocks/option/futures, and get rich while literally producing... nothing.

Well, just sit at home, selling eachother life insurance, and buy and sell stocks from eachother, in companies that do nothing but invest their own liquid assets, into other companies that... own large stakes in other companies... which actually make their money off commissions from the life insurance we sell eachother.

House of cards? Hmmm? What - 'somebody has to work in the factory - get down and dirty w/ some manual labor?' Meh, that's what machines are for.

All I can say, is God help us when the poles rapidly shift in late 2012 (as the theory goes...), and we lose power.

Anyway, as for skilled labor... work is over-rated. And jobs suck. If you're really smart, you find another way, I believe, rather than following the beaten path and becoming just another cog in the machine. "I am a skilled worker!" -Yeah, well good for you. I guess somebody's gotta do it. But I maintain, it's all about makin' a stinkin' buck. And in this day and age, 'WORKING for a living', is old-fashioned.

Nurses. Bah.

 

[Dann]

Nurses. Bah.

Someday when you're old and bedridden and need someone to bring you a bedpan I bet you won't be saying that.

 

[Lotus49]

Someday when you're old and bedridden and need someone to bring you a bedpan I bet you won't be saying that.

If/when I ever lose independence, I'm ready... (see sig)

 

[Dann]

 

[Lotus49]

I.e., if/when I ever get to the point where someone else is having to bathe me, help me poop, etc.... I'd rather just die.

With my last independent action... I raise the gun into position...

No sense in living, just for the sake of living. I don't like this place that much anyway... to live a miserable life like that (nursing home, etc.) - no thanks. I'll just go.

 

[Dann]

Ah I see.

Yeah I can identify. I'd feel the same way too. Unfortunately not all of us can choose the way we go...

 

[DaveShack]

I have no problem at all with those who produce more getting more pay. Since it is clearly impossible for those on the lower rungs to produce significantly more than they do, the only way to reduce the wage gap would be to cap the top. The lawyers we can do without, but cap doctors pay and next generation there won't be any new doctors.

Raising the minimum wage just raises the prices of the things minimum wage workers contribute to, because their employers must still try to make a profit. The people whose wages increase end up spending all that increase, and then some more, in the form of increased prices.

Importing skilled workers would reduce wages of the people in the middle, pushing the average wage down while increasing the gap between executives and workers. It would have the opposite effect from what Greenspan says is desireable.