Team SABER

[remake20]

Okay with that I'll post my example treaty.

NOTE: I know you will change this and please do. Also you do not have to use it. Underlined words mean that there is things to be added.

Dear team SABER:

We would like to propose a treaty with in the destruction of the COUNCIL. We feel this will prosper all of our nations. The first part of this treaty will be to meet at Insert place here on Insert turn here. The second part will be for you to have Insert way of proof from my post in 220-229. The third part is that we split the COUNCIL’S cities as our leaders and people think fair and to our advantage. Four, provide navel support that can protect us all. Five attack Insert valuable city name her ASAP. Six, give us all the cities that we agreed that was our and we will give ours to you. Seven, provide a bigger military offense than us, because of you stronger military power. We will prove our entire offensive military. Eight, keep peace with us from the signature of this treaty till 15 turns after the destruction of the COUNCIL.

 

[CommandoBob]

Given how little contact we've had with Saber, this might be a little difficult for them to accept.

I think we need some more contact with them before we decide to turn on The Council.

And we need something that keeps Saber from invading us as we invade The Council.

 

[remake20]

That's fine I was just board and this was something to do.

 

[Empiremaker]

Dear Team FREE,

Please let us know if you received our correspondence of 10 days ago.
In it, we suggested that both FREE and Saber halt all luxury trades
with Council and instead swap spices and wines with each other. Since
this deal would leave both Saber and FREE with the exact same number
of luxuries each has now, and Council would have fewer luxuries, we
thought we might reach agreement quickly.

Please let us know what you think.

We need to do something. I would prefer if they invaded for a or diplo victory.

Proposed Response:

SABER,

Sorry for not responding sooner, people have been busy with RL. Regarding the The Council threat, we worry that we don't have a big enough military to destroy the Council. We then would need to hit The Council on the same turn if you want us to help, but we would also need some gold to quickly attack the Council. Alternatively, we could supply you with gold and resources and you could attack the Council on your own, which would be logistically easier.

If SABER wants a joint attack, we could pretend to ally, and instead attack their troops or we could win a diplo victory with The Council's help.

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm not quite ready to trust Saber completely, but we do need more time.

It's late and my mind is foggy, but I can't think of anything to add to the message.

 

[CommandoBob]

PM from Marsden of Gong to me, earlier today (October 20, 2008, after Turn 232 for both of us (Babe had the Turn at this point)):

Hi Bob! RE:MTDG2, are you guys really trying to beat council to a space ship? The farms in Gongland are helping, I'm sure, but the Council is way ahead. I guess you'll be satisfied with second best. My regards to the Mrs.


BTW, I don't know if we're going to get our little buddy Ex626 back, I haven't heard or seen anything of him.

 

[CommandoBob]

My reply to him a few hours later:

Man, I wish I knew for sure. We've got some newbies in recently and that has upset the applecart.

I think we've lost our way after we took over Gong.

From to in less than 20 turns.

Art Parry
aka CommandoBob

PS - Too bad about Expirement626, I was hoping to get him to be able to take on Monarch someday. Could he have graduated to Civ4?

The reference to Expirement626 is from here: Experiment 626's TDG2 or 'Pinky and The Brain take over the world!'. Marsden and I were both part of that thread and E626's TDG1.

 

[CommandoBob]

2nd PM from Marsden, before Saber received Turn 233:

Well, between me and you (and anyone you want, this is no secret) Council's heading for a win. Now, I like you and I like them, but if we're going to play to win, we (Saber) are going to have to hurt them, I was hoping you guys (Free) would be in on the hit and then we can duke it out like the titans we are, but that's my take and things don't go the way I think very much. I'm mostly asking because our respective teams haven't spoken much, plus it's been overdue me saying hello, so I'll leave it at this but we are going to hurt Council, nothing personal again, just trying to win, and then if that goes ok you know we'll be coming after you again nothing personal, it the way of the game. Take care.

 

[remake20]

Are we still going to them when they attack the COUNCIL. Maybe we can "say" we are going to help defend the COUNCIL but really destroy them.

 

[CommandoBob]

Reply to Marsden, during their Turn 233:

Dear Marsden,

Thanks for plain speaking. Maybe that will get some one(s) to make a decision.

I know we don't want The Council to win, but due to the lack of communication (and I'm not attaching any blame, because we (our teams) have had ample time to talk to each other) we just don't know how far we can trust Saber. And I know the same is true from your side, too.

We can both say we'll do something, but we have no real history of doing something. Luxury trades are one thing, but waging war is something else. We didn't ask you for help when we went after Gong and you haven't asked for our help in taking on Babe. And I saying that as matter of record, not to accuse anybody. We didn't ask; you didn't ask; and now it looks like maybe we should have.

Good luck in warring with The Council. It won't be an easy fight; both sides will bleed a lot.

I have no idea what we will do. I wish I had a clue. Given our own chaos, I wouldn't be surprised if we invaded Gong again!

Until we meet again

Art Parry
aka CommandoBob

 

[remake20]

We need to come up with a plan ASAP. Hopefully before the next turn.

 

[Empiremaker]

If we could get SABER to agree to a no spaceship victory, enforced by monopoly techs may be interesting. Still, I think our best bet is let SABER attack the council, and try and get the other blues to vote for us in a diplomatic win.

 

[CommandoBob]

Just sent to Saber, after our Turn 233 and after their Turn 233.

Dear Worthy Adversaries of Orange,

We did refuse the offer of Wines for Spices. Rather, I did, as Turn Player. That may not have been the smartest thing I did this last turn.

One of my teammates has pointed out that we may have had an ongoing luxury trade already in place and that this was just a continution of it. I don't know. When I played the turn, I looked in the thread we have for our communications with you and saw nothing about it, but I only examined posts made in October.

I did not have time to consult the Team, so I declined the offer, because I wasn't sure of how the Team would respond. When in doubt, do nothing.

And of course now several are up in arms because I did refuse the deal.

Please allow us time to get our act together. Hopefully, by our next turn, we will know what we want to do and we'll communicate that with you at that time. Deal or no deal, we'll inform as soon as we can.

Sincerely yours,

Art Parry
aka CommandoBob
Let FREEdom ring,
Let the white dove sing...

 

[CommandoBob]

Just received from Saber, with Turn 234.

Dear FREE Friends:

Here is the game situation as we see it: Council is precipitously close to completing a spaceship. They are at most 5 techs away. They may be even closer since we don't know if they have the Laser and/or Robotics yet. We know they completed Synthetic Fibers in only 5 turns not long ago so they are at most 25 turns from launching and could be as close as 15 turns away. They must be stopped immediately.

We suggest trading spices for wines and discontinuing our trades with Council. This deal will leave Saber and FREE with the exact same number of luxuries they each have now, but Council will have 2 fewer luxuries.

More drastic measures will have to be taken very soon, but we need to start slowing them down however we can immediately.

Team Saber

 

[Empiremaker]

Proposed letter:

SABER,

With our knoweldge of The Council's military, we feel that we can't invade them successfully before they launch a spaceship. We don't know your military strength (look, were nice not spying on you ), but we are sure it is considerably larger than ours. So we could provide you with some gold (ex 2000), for you to rush a few more troops, and then you can invade the Council. If needed, we could provide a diversion.

Furthermore, I feel that this game would be more fun/conclusive without a spaceship victory, so we propose that neither team researches [insert two techs on different paths].

Empiremaker

 

[CommandoBob]

I don't think we need the last paragraph. Saber has already indicated that they want a showdown with us (after they deal with The Council) and I'm willing to agree with them on that. If we can't win otherwise.

I would suggest a different paragraph, something that looks forward to the killing the space ship dreams of The Council.

We're playing to win, too.

Chasing a Rabbit
I think we've discussed this before, but if Saber invades The Council, can we pick up anything in Babe? This would prevent a Domination win by Saber and might let us pick up a Domination win, if we got the entire landmass.

 

[Elephantium]

(look, were nice not spying on you )

is wrong. It should be (look, we're nice not spying on you )

As for preventing a space win by limiting the tech path, how do you enforce that? They could research the tech, then change a prebuild to bring in the spaceship parts during that IT.

 

[Empiremaker]

We may be able to settle a few cities in BABE.

Revision A

SABER,

With our knowledge of The Council's military, we feel that we can't invade them successfully before they launch a spaceship. We don't know your military strength (look, we're nice not spying on you ), but we are sure it is considerably larger than ours. So we could provide you with some gold (ex 2000), for you to rush a few more troops, and then you can invade the Council. If needed, we could provide a diversion.

We are looking forward to being free of the Council threat.

Empiremaker

 

[CommandoBob]

Musing
Just invading The Council will put a halt to their research. Their geeks would continue on, but the Science slider would drop to zero to allow more gold for cash rushing.

I don't think that Saber is planning to eliminate The Council, just stop their reseaching. To do that, Saber has to invade. Goal #1 for Saber (if we believe them) is to stop The Council from getting a Spaceship victory. Goal #2 would be to win the game themselves. Capturing The Council's continent gets them very close to a Domination victory. They would have to raze The Council's cities; those cities are large and would flip back to The Council at some point.

Domination is 66% land and 66% population; razing captured cities reduces the overall population and makes Saber (and us, too) have a larger percentage of the reduced population (generally) but the increase wouldn't be that much; maybe a point or two. But we/I really need to verify this hopeful conclusion.

Message to Saber
We have 3500+ gold, 2000 to Saber is doable.

Fission is due in 3.

Letter looks good.
Hmm, we'll have to see how this plays out.

 

[remake20]

Are we going to start the UN as soon as we finish fission?