"Terrorist attack" thwarted in NYC

[capslock]

Does the word "entrapment" mean anything at all to you?

Yah, someone actually defined it and gave the criteria needed to prove it. Why don't you use his post and explain how this situation, citing sources, meets that criteria? Do it effectively and you could really pwn all your critics.

I am no fan of entrapment either, but I don't see it here at all.

 

[RobAnybody]

I honestly don't care about entrapment in this case, & I half the time side with Teh Perp on the Law & Order (although, come to think of it, maybe we should try that - odds are, in the last 5 minutes, he'll confess for no good reason), but the moment this guy hit the detonation button, he was guilty, IMO.

Unless his family was being held hostage or something, if he hit the detonator, he's guilty. There's no entrapment in the world that would make someone innocent try to blow up a building.

 

[holy king]

well, there was a time when they would have given him a real bomb, let him detonate it and never acknowledge their involvement.

i guess this is the evolution of politics.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yah, someone actually defined it and gave the criteria needed to prove it. Why don't you use his post and explain how this situation, citing sources, meets that criteria? Do it effectively and you could really pwn all your critics.

I am no fan of entrapment either, but I don't see it here at all.

You can't pretend that the matter isn't quite contentious. These cases are not legally entrapment the way it is currently defined in the US. If they were, their defense attorneys would be acquitting them on those grounds. But it still doesn't mean it isn't enptrapment. It just means that the legal system has yet again been perverted to make it far too easy for the police.

Other countries have a completely different view of entrapment. For instance, in Scotland it is entrapment "when law enforcement officials cause an offense to be committed which would not have occurred had it not been for their involvement."

Again, it is best summarized by the statement by the judge in the case I highlighted previously:

I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that there would have been no crime here except the government instigated it, planned it and brought it to fruition...

To me, this is indeed entrapment:

The judge later noted in a finding of fact that “whenever Hussain asked Cromitie to act on those sentiments — make a plan, pick a target, find recruits, introduce the [confidential informant] to like-minded brothers, procure guns and conduct surveillance — Cromitie did none of the above.”

McMahon said that at this point Hussain began to add “more worldly inducements” to the “offer of paradise” beginning with a BMW “but only after Cromitie had completed a mission.”

Hussain left for Pakistan on Dec. 18, 2008, and didn’t return to the United States for two months. While he was away, the FBI briefed officials at Stewart International Airport in New York on the investigation but assured them that “Cromitie was unlikely to commit an act without the support of the FBI source.”

YMMV.

 

[kochman]

I honestly don't care about entrapment in this case, & I half the time side with Teh Perp on the Law & Order (although, come to think of it, maybe we should try that - odds are, in the last 5 minutes, he'll confess for no good reason), but the moment this guy hit the detonation button, he was guilty, IMO.

Unless his family was being held hostage or something, if he hit the detonator, he's guilty. There's no entrapment in the world that would make someone innocent try to blow up a building.

Absolutely.
What's funny/scary is Formy is actually defending someone who was going to kill scores of innocents. That seems like taking things to an extreme.

 

[holy king]

with what was he going to kill scores of innocents? a fake bomb? his dick?

 

[kochman]

with what was he going to kill scores of innocents? a fake bomb? his dick?

Attempted murder, 20 counts.
He desperately wanted to do it, just because he was incompetent (this time) doesn't mean a thing.

Are you also taking the side of the man who would kill scores of innocents had he had the RIGHT pieces to his bomb?

 

[Bugfatty300]

with what was he going to kill scores of innocents? a fake bomb? his dick?

Yeah. Fortunately, deranged nuts in America cannot commit mass murder. The tools are too hard to come by.

 

[DinoDoc]

It just means that the legal system has yet again been perverted to make it far too easy for the police.

So entrapment means whatever you want it to mean?

 

[holy king]

Are you also taking the side of the man who would kill scores of innocents had he had the RIGHT pieces to his bomb?

i also just recently stopped beating my wife.

 

[civver_764]

My main problem with this is that instead of trying to talk him out of it, the FBI egged him on just so they could have the satisfaction of sending this guy to prison and 'saving the day.' In reality they've accomplished nothing in regards to this artifical war on terror, and have only heightened tensions. I guess it wouldn't be in their interests to actually address the causes of terrorism though, as long as they lock up a scary muslim every now and then.

This is pretty damning as well, if true:

Every single "terrorism" act but two since 9/11 have been FBI stings where they talked the people into committing them. It isn't "luck" at all.

Seems like Islamic terrorism is just something the FBI artificially promote for their(and the US Government's) own private interests.

Meanwhile we're still occupying 2 Islamic countries, have caused and are continuing to cause the countless death of innocents there, still strongly support the state of Israel and their crimes against Palestinians, still strongly demonize Muslims here on the domestic front, and our corporations continue to exploit the resources of Muslim nations. For someone supposedly concerned about ending animosity of Muslims towards the US Government, they aren't very good at it.

 

[Borachio]

It does indeed look like the whole Islamic thing has been manipulated out of thin air. To justify the existence of the whole militaro-industrial complex. And this "terrorist attack" is just a part of the bigger picture.

I can't say I'm comfortable with this notion though. Smells too much like a conspiracy theory.

 

[JollyRoger]

Given the target, I want to know which of our resident losertarians and Rothtards were in on the plot.

 

[civver_764]

It does indeed look like the whole Islamic thing has been manipulated out of thin air. To justify the existence of the whole militaro-industrial complex. And this "terrorist attack" is just a part of the bigger picture.

I can't say I'm comfortable with this notion though. Smells too much like a conspiracy theory.

Define conspiracy theory. I think that in any society with as much inequality and division of power as ours, the powerful are naturally going to use that power for their own interests. It's not a conspiracy in that there's a single person or group of people behind it, just a natural tendency.

 

[MobBoss]

i also just recently stopped beating my wife.

I thought you were gay.

 

[Yeekim]

You know that after virtually every incident like this all the friends and family of the perpetrator (or would be perpetrator in this case) come out and express shock?

Mother of Dylan Klebold:
"How could we think for even a second that Dylan could shoot someone?"
"Dylan was a gentle, sensible kid. No one in our family had ever owned a gun. How in the world could he be part of something like this?"

Columbine was the product of FBI entrapment?

"Yeah, He Was A Mean Bastard Ever Since He Was Small. Everybody Saw That Coming, Says Murderer's Mother" - no newspaper headline ever.

My main problem with this is that instead of trying to talk him out of it...

Yeah. They totally should've tried to "talk him out of it". And then they should've kept agents on top of him, night and day, until forever, to be sure he actually did change his mind. Sounds like a good universal approach to counter-terrorism.

 

[civver_764]

Yeah. They totally should've tried to "talk him out of it". And then they should've kept agents on top of him, night and day, until forever, to be sure he actually did change his mind. Sounds like a good universal approach to counter-terrorism.

So if someone came to you expressing plans to rob somebody, instead of trying to talk him out of it you would egg him on and make sure he went through with it so you could call the police at the last minute and get him sent to jail?

Is this how we should interact with one another?

 

[holy king]

I thought you were gay.

for you, i could be anything.

 

[Borachio]

For me, you're a pervert bunker inhabitant. That'll do me.

 

[MobBoss]

for you, i could be anything.

Ok, lets try 'silent' and see how that goes.