The 24 New Great People

[HiRezAudio]

I'd be pleased to see Nicolas-Louis de Lacaille (Great Scientist, renaissance / industrial era) as well as both modern / atmoic era Stephen Hawking (Great Scientist) and Isaac Asimov (Great Writer).

Why Hawking? Seriously - what did he do? AFAIR he was what they term a 'theoretical' physicist - ie he dealt in imagination, not observation.
I'd much rather see experimental Nobel winners like Halton Arp, or Hannes Alfven.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Is this an educated guess or some info you are basing your thoughts on?

My initial thoughts are the new great people are related to the new game mode and are obviously great heroes. I was thinking of the possibility of how as in civ 4 Warlords great generals could be attached to units allowing them new unique promotions etc, using this mechanic for great heroes. Or another possibility is that the great heroes are already a hero attached to a military unit.

But obviously mine is just a guess, could be something different...

We already knew we were getting new great people based on the initial announcement of pack 4. It is listed under new content separated from the game mode.

It is the same how the Diplo Quarter and its buildings are separate from Secret Societies.

Content in the game modes such as Soothsayers, Cultists, and Vampires weren’t listed as new units so I don’t think this would be any different.

 

[Myomoto]

Why Hawking? Seriously - what did he do? AFAIR he was what they term a 'theoretical' physicist - ie he dealt in imagination, not observation.
I'd much rather see experimental Nobel winners like Halton Arp, or Hannes Alfven.

I personally work as an experimental physicist, I don't see much reason why we cannot celebrate theoreticians? We should remove Einstein from the game? Working in science, theory and experiment go hand in hand. Experiment without theory is as equally useless as theory without experiment. Experiment tells us what happens, theory tells us how it happens.

Hawking has made several theoretical contributions to astrophysics, the biggest being the prediction of radiation emitted by black holes causing them to lose mass over time (look up Hawking Radiation). Besides that, he has contributed significantly to cultivating the public interest in science by participating in many outreach activities despite his disability.

 

[Futumch]

Why Hawking? Seriously - what did he do? AFAIR he was what they term a 'theoretical' physicist - ie he dealt in imagination, not observation.
I'd much rather see experimental Nobel winners like Halton Arp, or Hannes Alfven.

Considering his lifelong debilitating progressive disease, he did a hell of a lot to invigorate interest in physics among the general population. He won a pretty susbtantial list of awards, he wrote a bestselling book. All while having only the use of only a couple of fingers and a cheek muscle. His contributions to science are noted in Myomoto's post.
I had to look up the two people you mentioned as I had not heard of them.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I personally work as an experimental physicist, I don't see much reason why we cannot celebrate theoreticians? We should remove Einstein from the game? Working in science, theory and experiment go hand in hand. Experiment without theory is as equally useless as theory without experiment. Experiment tells us what happens, theory tells us how it happens.

Hawking has made several theoretical contributions to astrophysics, the biggest being the prediction of radiation emitted by black holes causing them to loose mass over time (look up Hawking Radiation). Besides that, he has contributed significantly to cultivating the public interest in science by participating in many outreach activities despite his disability.

When I was in grad school doing computational chemistry, I had to justify my work's existence all the time!

Theory can guide the direction of future experiments to make them a lot more viable/practical, for one thing.

 

[Josephias]

Ok, so if the wiki is correct we have:

• 21 Great generals: 3 per "middle" era (classical to information, ancient and future excluded). Exception for atomic/information, which are split 4/2.
• 20 Grat admirals: 3 per "middle" era except information (1) and Renaissance (4)
• 18 Great engineers: 3 per "middle" era, except classical (none)
  
• 21(x3) Great merchants/scientists (3 per "middle" era, exact)
• 25 Great writers (4 classical, 3 medieval, 5 renaissance to modern, 2 atomic, 1 information).
• 20 Great artists (4 each era from renaissance to information)
• 16 Great musicians (5 industrial, 5 modern, 4 atomic, 2 information)

Total 162, not counting the 16? Great prophets (6 classical, 5 medieval, 5 renaissance)

24 extra does not seem like a great deal, and by the numbers can be either a new type or dedicated to fill gaps. In the second case:

• I don't think it's likely they spend much in touching the well-rounded merchants/scientists/engineers as increasing 1 per era will lead to using 20 GP already, unless they want to highlight specific eras for each type (so in example Engineers might increase to 4-5 in industrial and modern, merchants might be reinforced in renaissance and information, and scientists in classical and atomic, in order to make each of these eras more tilted to an specific area of civilization).
• In the same sense, it seems Generals/Admirals are moreless well-rounded, with the lower number at information age being likely because their area efectiveness is reduced (no future era units besides GDR, if bonuses apply to them), and Admirals number increase in Renaisance being dedicated to reflect the Age of Sail (same idea as proposed for the scientists / engineers / merchants above).
• If there is an area where additional great people may have an impact is in the cultural (writers/musicians/artists) side, as there are many slots left to fill. Increasing artist to 5 per era (5 Great People), plus adding some more writers to cover the later age drop (lets say 2 more per era, 4 great people), and re-inforcing musicians availability in later ages. (Even if it is going more "pop", reknowned artists like Bowie or OST composers as Morricone might have a place here, altough copyright issues might prevent that -yet the "short" excerpt that sounds for a great musician might be copyright-free, ¿who knows?.... Take both atomic and information up to 5, that's +4 GP).

This would make +13 great people on writers/artists/musicians, +11 more to spend in other groups (which might be raising to 4-5 some eras for scientists-merchants-engineers. Would that make sense to you?. Which other ways do you think changes might go?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

This is probably the biggest thing I have been excited i have done nothing but complain about how quickly Great People are disappearing so having new ones will alleviate that and I can get back to working on my Great People mod that expands them (I ahve so many mods in the works I really need to start working on more).

 

[Galvatron]

Why Hawking? Seriously - what did he do? AFAIR he was what they term a 'theoretical' physicist - ie he dealt in imagination, not observation.
I'd much rather see experimental Nobel winners like Halton Arp, or Hannes Alfven.

He made science appeal to mass consumers rather than the subject of scientists and engineers. His brief history of time spent record time on best sellers lists, which is noteworthy many times more given that science is a hard sell on... everyone ever. This opens the door for other scientific literature to be put in public view, since publishers saw that a market exists for egghead work.

So like other great people: he single handedly changed the destiny of the human race. It doesn't matter if his theories were dull garbage, which they were not.

 

[pokiehl]

I'm going to be extremely disappointed if this is referring to a new GP type exclusive to the mode.

I don't think it is because they don't advertise features like that when exclusive to a mode but still...

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I'm going to be extremely disappointed if this is referring to a new GP type exclusive to the mode.

I don't think it is because they don't advertise features like that when exclusive to a mode but still...

It's not. They didn't advertise the new assets that came with any of the modes. Pack 3 didn't advewrtise new Policy Cards. Pack 2 didn't advertise new units, buildings and improvements (bar the Diplomatic Quarter ones), and Pack 1 dsidn't mention the Soothsayer.

 

[leandrombraz]

Is this an educated guess or some info you are basing your thoughts on?

My initial thoughts are the new great people are related to the new game mode and are obviously great heroes. I was thinking of the possibility of how as in civ 4 Warlords great generals could be attached to units allowing them new unique promotions etc, using this mechanic for great heroes. Or another possibility is that the great heroes are already a hero attached to a military unit.

But obviously mine is just a guess, could be something different...

Every extra content they announced and released so far were additions to the main game, not limited to a game mode. The city-states, resources and natural wonders in pack 1, the new district + two new buildings in pack 2, the new world wonders and a new map in pack 3, these are all contents that aren't part of a game mode. I think we can infer with 100% certainty that this is true for every pack in the pass. I do think, however, that the new game mode will use the Great People UI somehow, in the same way they used the governors UI for Secret Societies, but that is something separated from these 24 Great People that we will get.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Maybe there's new GP type exclusive to the new game mode, no?

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Well at least we know Hero units are present in the new game mode:



This image is from the post below. But whether the hero units are these 24 new great people or these are entirely separe things, we do not know.

Just a little tidbit of info/speculation I accidentally discovered. It was posted earlier about a new debug panel related to heroes. I tried to open it and one button was interesting, specifically the word 'next'. It indicates that there might be a "series" of heroes. That could fit in with the way Great People have "series" (Prophet, General, Writer, etc). Given that there is some discovery chance which someone else found, it seems to be supported.

Another speculation could relate to the lists (empty boxes here) and the code behind them. Heroes are discovered by each player and not globally, so "0" in the below code is the human player;
Game.GetHeroesManager() :IsHeroDiscovered(0, heroClass.Index);
This is supported by inspecting the code behind the Discover Next Hero button, which have the the following code, which refers to a Player in the naming:
pGameHeroes: playerDiscoverNextHero(0);

Another thing to note is the following code:
GameInfo.HeroClasses().HeroClassType
This could just be the naming of the datastructure without any meaning, but as a civ fanatic I have to speculate a bit. It would seem that heroes have both a class and a type. Since it is HeroClasses and HeroClassType it seems to be separate from unit type/class.

Also, heroes are units, as also indicated by the old chinese screenshot:
for _, unit in playerUnits:Members() do
if (unit:IsHero()) then

Finally, I find it interesting that there is a column called "Active Hero Type". This make it sound like a given hero unit can change it's type or something similar. Why else would the word "Active" be needed? "Hero Type" would be sufficient if it was static. Maybe "Hero Class" is static and is what is discovered and "Hero Type" changes during each game (leveling up with renown? when it returns to life after loosing all it's lifespan?)

View attachment 571289

 

[PhilBowles]

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/commen...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Here it is!

Are we sure that's a real leak? The art looks like a mock-up using a cleaned up version of Civ IV's Hammurabi leaderhead, and not much like Civ VI leader styles.

 

[AaronTBD]

Are we sure that's a real leak? The art looks like a mock-up using a cleaned up version of Civ IV's Hammurabi leaderhead, and not much like Civ VI leader styles.

Other people went to the e-shop and confirmed it was legit

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Well at least we know Hero units are present in the new game mode:



This image is from the post below. But whether the hero units are these 24 new great people or these are entirely separe things, we do not know.

If they pulled a stunt, Firaxis would be looking at a massive outrage as it would be blalant misleading advertisment. So no. We are getting brand new 24 great people in the Great People Pool, they have nothing to do with the mode. Otherwise they wouldn't be advertisted seperately.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Well at least we know Hero units are present in the new game mode:



This image is from the post below. But whether the hero units are these 24 new great people or these are entirely separe things, we do not know.

Oh so this is where the Renown and Lifespan stats from the NFP Chinese leaks are from.

 

[Luxerne]

So, now that we have the upcoming Babylon pack announced, we know that we are getting at least one new writer, Rumi.

I hadn't expected to get new GWAM—especially not writers or musicians, since they're functionally identical at the moment. But, apparently any type of GP seems to have been fair game in this update. Heck, could we be getting a few new prophets then? Maybe we could get a few late-game religious figures like Nakayama Miki, Joseph Smith, or Bahá'u'lláh?


So far, we have

Rumi (Medieval Writer): Divani Shamsi Tabriz and Masnavi
Ibn Khaldun (Scientist, presumably medieval or renaissance): unknown bonus
Margaret Mead (Atomic Scientist): Large bonus of science and culture. (+1000 science and +1000 culture on Standard speed.)

 

[HiRezAudio]

He made science appeal to mass consumers rather than the subject of scientists and engineers. His brief history of time spent record time on best sellers lists, which is noteworthy many times more given that science is a hard sell on... everyone ever. This opens the door for other scientific literature to be put in public view, since publishers saw that a market exists for egghead work.

So like other great people: he single handedly changed the destiny of the human race. It doesn't matter if his theories were dull garbage, which they were not.

So did Emmanuel Velikovsky with both 'Worlds In Collision' as well as the even better 'Earth In Upheaval'.
Ditto Eric Lerner's 'The Big Bang Never Happened'
I could go on and on but it would probably be futile.

 

[Luxerne]

Okay, so reading the promotional info on the official website, it looks like Imhotep is being included as a Great Engineer too. Either we're getting engineers from before the medieval era or this will officially be the furthest off a great person has been from their historical lifetime. Forget all those inaccurate Atomic and Information era GP, Imhotep lived in the 27th century BC!