The 24 New Great People

[bite]

Okay, so reading the promotional info on the official website, it looks like Imhotep is being included as a Great Engineer too. Either we're getting engineers from before the medieval era or this will officially be the furthest off a great person has been from their historical lifetime. Forget all those inaccurate Atomic and Information era GP, Imhotep lived in the 27th century BC!

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i read over this twice and missed Imhotep both times

 

[Galvatron]

So did Emmanuel Velikovsky with both 'Worlds In Collision' as well as the even better 'Earth In Upheaval'.
Ditto Eric Lerner's 'The Big Bang Never Happened'
I could go on and on but it would probably be futile.

I never heard of either of those. How long were they on the best sellers lists?

I can give you quotes from a brief history time despite not having read it; can I quote those other two?

If those guys were so sensational, why don't I know about these many media appearances, and innumerable homages? Frankly I have a hard time believing they're comparable when I could write a book about the significance of Stephen Hawking, but I never heard of those other guys.

I'm not writing that off, but I doubt it.

 

[Luxerne]

So, knowing that GWAM are fair play for the 24 new great people, all I can say is I'm hoping we get some earlier artists that produce non-religious art. It sucks that you can't theme portraits/landscapes until Modern, and sculptures until Atomic era. It's a running joke in the community that nobody wants Donatello's useless sculptures. There'd be a far greater incentive to produce art museums as opposed to archaeological museums if we had more theming options. Some artists I'm thinking of might be Kamaleddin Behzad, Ma Yuan, Miguel Cabrera, or Igue-Igha (would love to see the Benin bronzes represented somehow).

The sculptures being unthemable until Atomic is probably intended as a nerf for Kongo, but even then the Atomic era is pretty darn late to lock that little bit of extra food/production/gold for them.

 

[HiRezAudio]

So, knowing that GWAM are fair play for the 24 new great people, all I can say is I'm hoping we get some earlier artists that produce non-religious art. It sucks that you can't theme portraits/landscapes until Modern, and sculptures until Atomic era. It's a running joke in the community that nobody wants Donatello's useless sculptures. There'd be a far greater incentive to produce art museums as opposed to archaeological museums if we had more theming options. Some artists I'm thinking of might be Kamaleddin Behzad, Ma Yuan, Miguel Cabrera, or Igue-Igha (would love to see the Benin bronzes represented somehow).

The sculptures being unthemable until Atomic is probably intended as a nerf for Kongo, but even then the Atomic era is pretty darn late to lock that little bit of extra food/production/gold for them.

I agree with you about the Sculptures - not worth accepting the GA unless you have wonders that can hold them as all they do is clutter up art museums - simply not enough of them to make it worth having.

 

[kaspergm]

I agree with you about the Sculptures - not worth accepting the GA unless you have wonders that can hold them as all they do is clutter up art museums - simply not enough of them to make it worth having.

Another solution would be to have more theming options. In Civ5, you could theme either by going all-same or by going all-different. In Civ6, the theming options are fare more limited, making such niche great people far more useless. Why can't we make, say, a "Museum of renaissance art", featuring a sculture, a portrait and a landscape from the renaissance era? Or a "Museum of French archeology", featuring a french artifact from ancient, medieval and industrial era?

 

[Myomoto]

Another solution would be to have more theming options. In Civ5, you could theme either by going all-same or by going all-different. In Civ6, the theming options are fare more limited, making such niche great people far more useless. Why can't we make, say, a "Museum of renaissance art", featuring a sculture, a portrait and a landscape from the renaissance era? Or a "Museum of French archeology", featuring a french artifact from ancient, medieval and industrial era?

I hate the theming system in 6, I feel like 5 got it more or less exactly perfect, and I really hope they take another look at great work theming in an upcoming update.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I hate the theming system in 6, I feel like 5 got it more or less exactly perfect, and I really hope they take another look at great work theming in an upcoming update.

They really, REALLY, need to.

To me the only thing that prevents Civ 6 from being perfect is the World Congress and the Tourism/Cultural game.

I doubt we'll get a massive revampt of WC but I think there is room to improve the Tourism Cultural Game.

I'd change:

- Seperate Museums as seperate Gallery's and Museums, and make Archeologist not be limited to 1 Museum, and give the player the opportunity to build Landmarks instead of collecting an artefact.
- Add themeing bonuses to all Wonders like in Civ 5, and give more variety in themes in Museum too.
- Make Tourism game more transparent in the UI, so I know WHICH civs I need to target with my Rock Bands.
- Give effect on Tourism so that it has a purpose outside of Cultural Victory. You disable Cultural Victooyr, TOurism has no affect on your game. Bring back Loyalty pressure with Dominant cultures, and bonuses.

 

[Josephias]

I hate the theming system in 6, I feel like 5 got it more or less exactly perfect, and I really hope they take another look at great work theming in an upcoming update.

Theming in Civ6 could be so much better. As proposed above, make alternate theming options rather than just "get the 3 of the same type". Pieces of art could have 2-3 categories to allow these different themings as well (maybe with different outputs). You might have religious landscapes (Garden of Delights) or religious sculptures (Pieta), "civil" portraits (of leaders/politicians) and "people" portraits (of commoners), etc... Theming by "art type" (sculpture, portrait, landscape,...) would provide culture, while theming by "art content" might provide other bonuses (faith for religious, loyalty for "civil", happines for "people"...) etc.

Also, I miss to have the opportunity to theme writing and music (and I would theme them in pairs: allow both the teathre and the radio station to hold a piece of music and one of writing, and make the themes by having one of each.

 

[UWHabs]

Theming in Civ6 could be so much better. As proposed above, make alternate theming options rather than just "get the 3 of the same type". Pieces of art could have 2-3 categories to allow these different themings as well (maybe with different outputs). You might have religious landscapes (Garden of Delights) or religious sculptures (Pieta), "civil" portraits (of leaders/politicians) and "people" portraits (of commoners), etc... Theming by "art type" (sculpture, portrait, landscape,...) would provide culture, while theming by "art content" might provide other bonuses (faith for religious, loyalty for "civil", happines for "people"...) etc.

Also, I miss to have the opportunity to theme writing and music (and I would theme them in pairs: allow both the teathre and the radio station to hold a piece of music and one of writing, and make the themes by having one of each.

Artifacts if I go heavy on them I can usually get around to theming in a couple museums. But for art? I think maybe once I've gotten lucky enough to worry about theming, the rest I just claim as individual pieces. The big difference is that artifacts you can get a wide variety of cases, you can get from virtually any civ and virtually any era. But art pieces there's a specific setup where it's really about which 3 great artists you get, since rarely do they overlap.

But your idea there about essentially giving each piece a secondary trait would give more freedom. You're still a little limited since an individual artist tends to create pieces with similar themes, but I'm sure most would at least have a 3rd piece that could be slightly in a separate category.

The other option to help might be to change the placement options or selection options. So, for example, instead of just being "the next artist is Donatello", you got to choose Donatello or Rublev when you picked the next artist. Then at least whoever gets there first would have some choice. Or perhaps if the different pieces had different placements. So if any temple could display a religious piece of art instead of a relic. Or perhaps some sculptures could be displayed at a Monument, or that some pieces were displayed in a library or a university. Then in that case, you would have to give an extra bonus if they are in an art museum, but it could potentially open up more options for how to manage them.

 

[kaspergm]

I think great works of Art in Civ6 are ok as they are, like mentioned above, I just think we could use some option to theme across the types.

Artifacts are also ok, although not great. My main objection here really is about the UI that's so annoying, and the fact that once you dig up an artifact, there's no way to check which types you need for theming, so you have to just pick one of the options blindly unless you remember them all. Also, it would be nice if the archeologist could tell, or at least make an estimate, at the age of the archeological site BEFORE doing the dig. It's annoying when you need an Ancient era artifact, and then you do they dig and it's classical era, and there's no way you can put the artifact back, and because of the severe restrictions on when and how you can trade them, it often takes ages before you can trade for a useful one.

However, my pet peeve is Writings. It's the great work type that comes online first, and the one you'll normally get most of. Why is there no theming option for these? Why don't they come in different types? Great plays, great poems, great novels ... instead we just get this bland indistinct type that all do the same.

Finally, I'll say great works of Music are really strange, because they come so incredibly late and require a big investment in terms of building the broadcast center, and then they just don't do a whole lot. They really need a boost.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Off the top of my head, some suggestions: Ahuitzotl, Ibn Battuta, Ibn Sina, al-Khwarizmi, Evliya Celebi, Turgut Reis, Yaa Asantewaa, Zaha Hadid, Toussaint L'Ouverture, Juana Inés de la Cruz, Emilio Aguinaldo, etc

Is it bad not to have heard of any of these? Asking for a friend...

Okay, so reading the promotional info on the official website, it looks like Imhotep is being included as a Great Engineer too.

I like the idea of ancient/classical era great engineers, and it's extra necessary now that Gaul and Babylon can feasibly rush to IZs within c.30 turns or so. A safe bet to assume that Imhotep will provide production to wonders? If so, I'm guessing he has two charges, each around 115 production ballpark (Isidore gives 215 production and Brunelleschi 315), which would be enough to entirely complete the Pyramids or most of the Oracle.

 

[Josephias]

Is it bad not to have heard of any of these? Asking for a friend...

Well, there are pretty important ones there Ibn Sina is the "master" from wich "the medic" in Noah's Gordon novel learns, in example,

But my favorite one is Al-Khwarizmi. Indeed, he is not so well known, but if you chek his name is pronounced "al-gor-ith-mi" (or somewat similar), you'll realize he is QUITE important in Math history

 

[Zaarin]

Is it bad not to have heard of any of these? Asking for a friend...

Mildly surprised you haven't heard of Toussaint L'Ouverture (who led the revolt in Haiti) or al-Khwarizmi, a famous Persian polymath who developed algebra. Algorithm comes from his name. You may have heard of Ibn Sina under his Latin name Avicenna, another Persian polymath most famous for his contributions to medicine (though he did a lot of other things, too). I don't recognize all of the others, but Ahuitzotl was an Aztec tlatoani, philosopher, and poet; Ibn Battuta was a Moroccan traveler famous for his travelogues; Zaha Hadid was an Iraqi-British architect (and an unlikely addition due to her recentness--she only died a few years ago).

I'd like to see Maimonides added as a Great Writer.

 

[Myomoto]

I think great works of Art in Civ6 are ok as they are, like mentioned above, I just think we could use some option to theme across the types.

Artifacts are also ok, although not great. My main objection here really is about the UI that's so annoying, and the fact that once you dig up an artifact, there's no way to check which types you need for theming, so you have to just pick one of the options blindly unless you remember them all. Also, it would be nice if the archeologist could tell, or at least make an estimate, at the age of the archeological site BEFORE doing the dig. It's annoying when you need an Ancient era artifact, and then you do they dig and it's classical era, and there's no way you can put the artifact back, and because of the severe restrictions on when and how you can trade them, it often takes ages before you can trade for a useful one.

However, my pet peeve is Writings. It's the great work type that comes online first, and the one you'll normally get most of. Why is there no theming option for these? Why don't they come in different types? Great plays, great poems, great novels ... instead we just get this bland indistinct type that all do the same.

Finally, I'll say great works of Music are really strange, because they come so incredibly late and require a big investment in terms of building the broadcast center, and then they just don't do a whole lot. They really need a boost.

My biggest pet peeve is that we got broadcast towers instead of opera houses. The classical music from the GMs fit so much better with 5's opera houses. Add opera, and move musicians to earlier, and then keep the radio towers and make them a requirement to buy rock bands. Each broadcast tower could further power up rockbands with some small stacking bonus.

 

[Josephias]

Finally, I'll say great works of Music are really strange, because they come so incredibly late and require a big investment in terms of building the broadcast center, and then they just don't do a whole lot. They really need a boost.

My biggest pet peeve is that we got broadcast towers instead of opera houses. The classical music from the GMs fit so much better with 5's opera houses. Add opera, and move musicians to earlier, and then keep the radio towers and make them a requirement to buy rock bands. Each broadcast tower could further power up rockbands with some small stacking bonus.

I would like to add earlier music (dificult as "named" musicians appear from industrial age onwards), and nevertheles allow music to be put (played) in theaters (which double as Opera Houses / Concert Halls), at leas in one of the two writting slots. As commented, allowing theming by mixing a piece of writing and one of music would be neat, and would give more interest to music works (as power-ups for your already existing writing works). Music and narrative/poetry complement quite well and often, so this theming should not seem odd.

Then, broadcast towers should allow the inverse (two pieces of music or one piece of music + one of writing, as speech can also be translated trough radio <- heck, one of the GWoW is War of the Worlds by Wells, which is famous as a radio serial). Writing+Music theming bonuses would also apply here, but with a different (and/or stronger) effect --> maybe culture bonus could be applied for all cities in range (a la factory), and tourism bonus become a % modifier for the tourism in all cities in range as well.

 

[Zaarin]

dificult as "named" musicians appear from industrial age onwards

Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Purcell, Mozart, Haydn, etc. would like a word with you. Even before that we have some extant Medieval music we can put names to (Hildegard von Bingen and Pérotin spring to mind, but I know there are quite a few others).

 

[Luxerne]

Zaha Hadid was an Iraqi-British architect (and an unlikely addition due to her recentness--she only died a few years ago).

I think she's definitely still a possibiliy. We have Charles Correa and Stephanie Kwolek in-game, who died in 2015 and 2014 respectively.

 

[Josephias]

Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Purcell, Mozart, Haydn, etc. would like a word with you. Even before that we have some extant Medieval music we can put names to (Hildegard von Bingen and Pérotin spring to mind, but I know there are quite a few others).

"Industrial" as per Civ6 ages is just beyond Renaissance... Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi,... all are labeled Industrial in the game .

Renaissance and Medieval music is obscure for me, but maybe yes we could find some names of Great Musicians (who created music works) there. I'm under the impression the author of a music piece was not so valued in Europe before Bach et al. and that is the reason we do not know many names (tough some google search brings some names I've heard sometimes, as des Pres, or Palestrina). Maybe it was different in the East and we can get more names there, but my knowledge there is poor to none

 

[Zaarin]

"Industrial" as per Civ6 ages is just beyond Renaissance... Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi,... all are labeled Industrial in the game .

I know, but in terms of the way the game defines eras Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, and Purcell are all indisputably Renaissance, and Mozart and Haydn are arguably Renaissance since we lack an Enlightenment era. I'm pretty sure the labeling is simply because you're not supposed to be earning Great Musicians before you have slots for them.

Renaissance and Medieval music is obscure for me, but maybe yes we could find some names of Great Musicians (who created music works) there. I'm under the impression the author of a music piece was not so valued in Europe before Bach et al. and that is the reason we do not know many names (tough some google search brings some names I've heard sometimes, as des Pres, or Palestrina). Maybe it was different in the East and we can get more names there, but my knowledge there is poor to none

I'm no expert on Eastern music, but there are at least a dozen or so that could be drawn from Medieval Europe. Further back than that we have names but not the actual music they composed--or we have musical fragments but not who composed them. (The game really needs a way to handle anonymous authors, artists, and composers.)

 

[Buktu]

- Make Tourism game more transparent in the UI, so I know WHICH civs I need to target with my Rock Bands.

Thats already kind of there I guess. Look at the cultural victory screen, send the rock bands to the civ with the most domestic tourists.