The Ages of Civ 4 S&T

That's far too vague. We are certainly not in a downturn right now. This is the renaissance. I will take some of this into account.

What exactly is vague about my post?

I've been here during ScarletKing's period (as a lurker) and have seen this one and the prior one. If anything, I've offered some good cultural observations (like the fact that the Foundation Era's stories titles' typically went like: Earth18Civs, Emperor, Epic, insert civ and the transition to artistically minded names in my period)
 
I don't think they are that good that they make the modern ones insignificant. I have read some of the older ones and quite honestly, it's not like they are leaps and bounds ahead of ones of now. I think it's mostly sentimental opinion that makes them seem so grand. Not saying they are bad at all.
 
From what I've read of the older stories, (I have been here longer than CK but nowhere near as long as the old timers) they are of a far higher quality than pretty much all of the AARs here. Of the quality of the interactive stories, I think Write your Own History and Tryst with Destiny wins.

I think it would be definitely fair to categorize a mini-Renaissance beginning in Spring 2014 and ending in the Fall. Right now we're kinda in a lull now.
 
I've tried to write a lot of stories, and I have lots of good ideas for them, but actually writing them is yuck.

I've also been writing on a lot of other websites, so my time has been consumed. Maybe once summer rolls around and I'll be out of Musy (personal slang for May and how busy it is) I can have the chance to write more on my USSR story.
 
So TD, I'll be honest when I say I didn't read much of older stories, almost nothing actually. But I've read a good share of several stories since America Write Your Own History.

One thing that makes me intrigued by your statements is the fact that I've read one of your last chapters in the Celestial Bureaucracy and some of the fast-paced first chapters too. I was amazed by the difference, and I got amused by your last chapter. It was really something so incredibly deep and immersed into the story coexisting with the game, unbelievably rich.

I don't remember how much time it was the gap between these chapters, but I believe it wasn't quick :cool:


So, don't you think this could be the beginning of something that will flourish in the near future? I mean, we have some resident writers that have been learning and honing their writing skills, and especially a Tryst with Destiny which is adhiraj's signature story, that has been here for a long time already and is getting ever better each new chapter. That's my first question to you.

My second question to you: If you have been watching the new stories, could you say a few words about them? More importantly about what they have that you deem good things? It would be really nice to get your overall opinion about some of the popular stories that have been written from 2014 to now. Well, I don't know much about prior to 2014, but don't feel restricted if there is something that deserves your review before 2014.
 
So, don't you think this could be the beginning of something that will flourish in the near future? I mean, we have some resident writers that have been learning and honing their writing skills, and especially a Tryst with Destiny which is adhiraj's signature story, that has been here for a long time already and is getting ever better each new chapter. That's my first question to you.

You haven't reached the critical mass of population to truly flourish.
CK keeps calling recent times a Renaissance, but this is like the population during the waning days of prior ages.
This is in no way a Renaissance, and I mean that without insult. You need more people writing, period.
During the heydays, 3/4 or half a complete page of thread listings could be updated in a single day, more even, and they would be bumped or posted in by different people, not just the same user.
And more engagement. I saw the 20 people post you made. In older times, those would all be actual users, and there would be fewer guests.
I see a ton of the same writers posting multiple stories and commenting in each other's stories.
This is how people get burnt out. There needs to be new blood to keep up the energy.

As for writing skills, if you're asking for general tips, here are a few:

Character-Based Narrative:
Worldbuilding. I don't mean the cheat tool.
Think about the world the characters live in.
What class, creed, color and more that people belong to, and how they react and interact with people of difference, institutions and foreigners.
Think about how your society functions and the pillars of their society. Think about culture and how people in that society express themselves.
Think about how geography affects a culture and its values.

Comedic: A lot of people think they're funny when they really aren't.
Comedy heavily relies on two things: timing, and a knowing audience.
If your audience is mostly grade 5-12 (according to ScarletKing), then tailor your humor accordingly. Some other basic rules:
-If you ever have to explain a joke, you've failed.
-Sarcasm bites up, never down.
-Innuendo is great, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
-Stereotypes based on traits people can't change are lazy.
Moreso than that, between private groups of friends who accept each other, that's fine,
but trying to take it public and expecting laughs for it is really, really dumb to the furthest degree.

General:
Write ONE story, stick to that story as if you were handcuffed to it, and just do it. Think Nike.

My second question to you: If you have been watching the new stories, could you say a few words about them? More importantly about what they have that you deem good things? It would be really nice to get your overall opinion about some of the popular stories that have been written from 2014 to now. Well, I don't know much about prior to 2014, but don't feel restricted if there is something that deserves your review before 2014.

adhiraj.bose is the shining star of this generation.
I've seen some of it and if this were another age and if the population were greater,
A Tryst with Destiny would be the flagship story that inspires and draw users to the subforum.
I'm particularly impressed because it's a story about India, a very good one at that,
because from my perspective, it's written from a place that's raw if that makes sense.
That, and it's India. That's a tough sell to a primarily culturally Anglo-American (this includes Canada) audience and the weird fetishy Rudyard Kipling types
(the modern equivalent being Japanophile weeaboos) no longer exist (not that you'd want them as an audience).

Also, I'll retract my previous statement about no longforms having emerged. Just a brain fart at the moment of writing the other post and I can't believe Tryst slipped my mind while writing it.

Here in America, we have sort of the same problem, but it's different. Here, we're so Anglocentric that we ignore pretty much everything that isn't about America. It's really sad that we learn more about the role of women in the colonial Backcountry economy than the Napoleonic Wars and Ancient Persia COMBINED.

mrrandomplayer and Lone Wolf stories are great (although Lone Wolf has been here since the Foundation Era), and they fill a sobering ecological niche.
It was a while back ago, but in this same era, but I remember Kinkaz's Argentina story being nice to read. I won't comment on comedic stories; they're rarely my thing, but I recognize their importance in building community.

Anyways, when is the opening post going to be changed? I've shared as much insight as I could about past ages.
 
Comedic: A lot of people think they're funny when they really aren't.

You're talking about my Bablyon story... Sorry about those puns. What will be my pun-ishment?

mrrandomplayer and Lone Wolf stories are great (although Lone Wolf has been here since the Foundation Era), and they fill a sobering ecological niche.
It was a while back ago, but in this same era, but I remember Kinkaz's Argentina story being nice to read. I won't comment on comedic stories; they're rarely my thing, but I recognize their importance in building community.

Anyways, when is the opening post going to be changed? I've shared as much insight as I could about past ages.

Thanks! I'm going to go update my Sri Lanka story right now.

I guess in my opinion S&T had a mini-Renaissance back when the America IAAR started to get in full stride.

If you have an answer to this question, what would be the best way to increase the S&T population?
 
Thanks! I'm going to go update my Sri Lanka story right now.

I guess in my opinion S&T had a mini-Renaissance back when the America IAAR started to get in full stride.

If you have an answer to this question, what would be the best way to increase the S&T population?

There's the artificial way and the natural way.

The artificial way is for all of you to get your friends hooked onto Civ4.
This was attempted by METY before,
and I remember a few of his friends running around the forum.
Get them Steam keys for Beyond the Sword and download the mods for them.
And try to get them to engage the community and write.
Which isn't really going to happen because not everyone wants to, nor should they be forced.

The natural way is just pure chance.
The two most prominent eras are simply a product of chance; the right people arriving and writing at the right times, and influencing others.
Nothing that happened before was consciously directed by anyone.
I think that ship has sailed; this is almost a 10 year old game after all.
It's almost as old as certain users.
 
There's the artificial way and the natural way.

The artificial way is for all of you to get your friends hooked onto Civ4.
This was attempted by METY before,
and I remember a few of his friends running around the forum.
Get them Steam keys for Beyond the Sword and download the mods for them.
And try to get them to engage the community and write.
Which isn't really going to happen because not everyone wants to, nor should they be forced.

The natural way is just pure chance.
The two most prominent eras are simply a product of chance; the right people arriving and writing at the right times, and influencing others.
Nothing that happened before was consciously directed by anyone.
I think that ship has sailed; this is almost a 10 year old game after all.
It's almost as old as certain users.

So essentially S&T is screwed unless we get a miracle?
 
Of course it isn't! S&T is flourishing right now and anything else said is a lie!
 
what would be the best way to increase the S&T population?

I suppose we could all add "Come visit the Civ IV Stories & Tales Forum" to our signatures in giant font and go out into the rest of CFC and make some contributions to the rest of the community.


Other than hoping that some great artist is born (and creates a great work or is settled as a super specialist) in the CIV IV S&T and that the rest of CFC stumbles across this forum not a whole lot can be done.

:cry:
 
We don't need a massive community of hundreds of people. We have a sustaining or even growing population. With people like you, Niccolo Edwards, joining the fray. Rarely do people leave. DKVM and VGL left, but numerically they have been replaced. We are a tightly knit community and don't need swathes of people like the paradox forums.
 
I agree we don't need a giant community, but a few more people to sustain the community would be nice.

 
Sustainability is actually something that is kind of taken care of. No one expected you to join. :) Because we are so small, the addition of every person is much more important than if we were massive. We're actually growing.
 
Fair enough we rarely lose people.


Also:

Yay, I'm unexpected. :woohoo:
 
Thanks for your reply TD, it was truly elucidative/elucidatory*.

You're probably right about the critical mass point, but maybe we are already in a stage with great chances to become a renaissance in the near future, when we finally reach said critical mass point.

- We have a community with a common identity (we can all trace back our own community to America Write Your Own History);
- We have an enduring and very well written story in a Tryst;
- Despite your omission about it, and my own lack of knowledge on the subject, I've seen writers becoming better and better since 2014, and I would like to point out two distinct cases:
Noob, that sadly abandons most of his stories, and usually thinks he is worse then he actually is, but his writing has actually improved a lot from his Egyptian to his USSR stories and if the lack of patience wasn't so strong, he could already be creating some nice longstanding stories;

CaterpillarKing, that could've already created a paralell story to a Tryst in S&T, more in the like of RT's America, if he wanted. Just compare Rise of Brazil to Mexico iTierra y Libertad, and you can see how much CK has improved from one to the other. In recent times he has reported lack of time due to school, which is understandable. But prior to this, I'll have to quote a great Clanky4's old post as my opinion to why he couldn't create his own S&T jewel, which BTW is mentioned on your list of tips for writers:
Spoiler :

- I didn't make a true research on this, but it seems to me the number of resident users on CIV S&T is growing. Although we had some leaving (DKVM, VGL, Sanguivorant, ...), many are joining, one of them, Niccolo Edwards, which seems to be faring pretty well in his first story, despite the lack of images;
- And finally, don't take me wrong, but I'm full of intentions to break the idea of 'the newer the better'. CiV proved (as CIV did in a far lesser degree at first) to be a disaster in terms of a new civilization series version. Even with the expansions, CiV may have drawn much attention, but it couldn't kill the CIV community as CIV did with CivIII when it was finally obvious that CIV was far superior to CivIII. CIV's mechanics are a lot better to interpret the world then CiV's IMO. But to break this idea of the newer the better, I need to give my help to strengthen the CIV community as a whole, and that's what I've been testing with LoR's DLL (my mod project), participating and researching in C2C, eventually learning more from DoC with Leoreth and creating tools and roleplaying characters in S&T's IAARs. The Democratic Caliphate has been a great training ground for my 'tool-creation' experiments :D. All of this last item may be summarized: I want CIV S&T to flourish, and I've been trying to help it the best I can, which, for a non-writer, can't be done by writing, but instead by participating.

This is my positive review of our Age, which may not be a true Renaissance yet, but it surely aims to be one.

What could've been a great story, even more attractive then RT's America, but unexpectedly died, was Ironclad Oath. There we had a big loss. It seemed to go on a totally different direction then the original America story, far more immersive and detailed. It's really sad that RT had to abandon this project.


*To any good soul: Can someone explain to me the difference between these two words? I tried google translator to translate elucidativo from portuguese and it gave me these 2 results, but I have no idea the difference between them. Thanks in advance from a non native speaker :D
 
They have the same meaning, but they are different tenses. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that though :p and I'm certainly flattered, thank you :p
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that though :p

You mean why I used elucidative? Well, more or less like the meaning of Enlightening, but I thought enlightening was too much. I'd have used elucidative in portuguese, so that's why I used it in english. I meant that TD's post brought a lot of light into the matter at hand, especially concerning the questions I made him in my previous post.
 
Ah I understand now why you used that word.
 
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