The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

[Caldwell]

I believe any non-selected CIV automatically becomes AI.

Excellent thanks!

 

[thamis]

I see, and what would all civs vote about (instead of secretary-general)?

Ps Sorry about being uptight about historical accuracy! Ds

Holy Roman Emperor.

There's actually historical accuracy behind this. If you read The Penguin History of the Middle Ages (which is, sadly, out of print, and which I also don't have to hand to give you author or ISBN), you will find that the Middle Ages were dominated by the desire to create a united Christian Europe, under one emperor. This desire started right at the end of the Migration Age, with the first Gothic king in Spain being crowned by the Pope.

The crusades are also part of this, as they represented a concerted effort of European powers to fight "the evil saracens".

The (quite obvious) reason why this dream was never realized is that the individual rulers did not want to give up the little sovereignty they had to either the pope, or a pope-elected emperor. This was also a major cause for the Great Schism, and the counter-pope in France.

Forgive me that I mention no names and dates, as I read this a while ago, and this text here is obviously not highly historically accurate and oversimplified.

Just to give you an idea. The goal of United European Christianity was only abandoned 100% at the Treaty of Westphalia 1648, which guaranteed sovereignty of the state. Thus, this wonder represents that dream, which, if you're good, you can rewrite history with in the CIV-spirit.

 

[Pckering]

Holy Roman Emperor.

There's actually historical accuracy behind this. If you read The Penguin History of the Middle Ages (which is, sadly, out of print, and which I also don't have to hand to give you author or ISBN), you will find that the Middle Ages were dominated by the desire to create a united Christian Europe, under one emperor. This desire started right at the end of the Migration Age, with the first Gothic king in Spain being crowned by the Pope.

The crusades are also part of this, as they represented a concerted effort of European powers to fight "the evil saracens".

The (quite obvious) reason why this dream was never realized is that the individual rulers did not want to give up the little sovereignty they had to either the pope, or a pope-elected emperor. This was also a major cause for the Great Schism, and the counter-pope in France.

Forgive me that I mention no names and dates, as I read this a while ago, and this text here is obviously not highly historically accurate and oversimplified.

Just to give you an idea. The goal of United European Christianity was only abandoned 100% at the Treaty of Westphalia 1648, which guaranteed sovereignty of the state. Thus, this wonder represents that dream, which, if you're good, you can rewrite history with in the CIV-spirit.

One of the things you have to remember about the later Imperialism periods, is that Christianity was everywhere in the crumbling Roman empire. After Rome fell to the Vandals Byzantium carried the torch for what was left of the eastern empire. Which covered all of Greece, Asia Minor, What we consider the Middle East, and North Africa. IE Bagdad was a christian city, as was Antioch, Tyre, Jerusalem and Egypt. So depending on when you want to end TAM it is entirely possible to have a Christian Victory. It was the schisms of the early church that made the Byzantines vulnerable to Moslem invasion.

Also remember, Before Rome fell it was very easy for a province to revolt and bring a Military leader to power if enough provinces joined in. Vespasian was brought to power in this way as were many other "Emperers". Well, enough legions from different provinces basically put him on the throne.

Building the Council of Nicea could be the "United Nations" Which is best known for its formulation of the Nicene Creed, the earliest dogmatic statement of Christian orthodoxy. The council was convened in 325 by the Roman emperor Constantine I in an attempt to settle the controversy raised by Arianism over the nature of the Trinity. Nearly all those who attended came from the eastern Mediterranean region.

Perhaps getting elected pope after Nicea could be a victory condition. I am sure someone could take this Idea and run with it, as I am at work today. forgive me my sloppy history, I can't look up a single date right now.. LOL

Just an Idea

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

In the middle ages-scenario(Civ3) you could build the "holy roman emperor" wonder, wich gave you some advantages. It's a great idea for any christian ruler in TAM too, I think. But I am not sure that it's a good game-victory condition (What saracen ruler would vote in an election for supreme christian ruler?)

 

[Notarzt]

What saracen ruler would vote in an election for supreme christian ruler?

The saracen leader you converted to christianity with your missionaries and via diplomacy.

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

What I mean is, If I play the game as Hammurabi of the Babylonians, and I do well, expand my empire to almost all corners of the world and build loads of wonders, some petty province ruler in a corner of Europe can steal my victory because he is elected leader of a religion that I (Hammurabi) don't care about?
Are you perhaps thinking about making christianity so strong in the game, that every civ will pursue this goal?

 

[thamis]

What I mean is, If I play the game as Hammurabi of the Babylonians, and I do well, expand my empire to almost all corners of the world and build loads of wonders, some petty province ruler in a corner of Europe can steal my victory because he is elected leader of a religion that I (Hammurabi) don't care about?
Are you perhaps thinking about making christianity so strong in the game, that every civ will pursue this goal?

No, you can only win if you convert the vast mass of civilizations to Christianity. So if your empire as Zoroastrian Hammurabi is huge, then nobody will be able to win a vote against you.

 

[thamis]

And Council of Nicea is an awesome name for the Wonder!!!

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

No, you can only win if you convert the vast mass of civilizations to Christianity. So if your empire as Zoroastrian Hammurabi is huge, then nobody will be able to win a vote against you.

Historical accuracy and the possibility to rewrite history, seems like you got it all covered.
Thanks for your patience with me.

Ps By the way, I'm downloading 1,5 right now. Do I need to download the new map too, or is it included? Ds

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

Hey, wait a minute! Does that mean zoroastrian Hammurabi can win the vote at the council of Nicea?

 

[HolyOne]

It was the schisms of the early church that made the Byzantines vulnerable to Moslem invasion.

Well, that's not really the case. It only made them vulnerable to catholic crusades (1204)
A more probable reason is that the bulk of the Byzantine Army were the soldiers settled in the thema (province) system. As the state control was so big in the economy, the rich upper class could invest their wealth only in purchasing land. So they literally bought up the army As taxes were high, people were willing to sell their land. It's hard to fight back the muslims without an army

 

[Shqype]

motherland

Maybe in your language, but that is an Albanian proverb. The name "fatherland" in Albanian comes from the Illyrian word, Dhe = land, and At = father. Thus, atdhe = fatherland.

 

[porsche911]

I just wanted to say that this is a great mod, however I wonder, when are you guys gonna include more civilizations? I would like to se more mesopotamian civs, specially the Assyrians. They had a big role in that region, great warmachines. I vote for Assyria, as a civ in this wonderfull mod !!

 

[thamis]

Hey, wait a minute! Does that mean zoroastrian Hammurabi can win the vote at the council of Nicea?

Yes.

 

[thamis]

I just wanted to say that this is a great mod, however I wonder, when are you guys gonna include more civilizations? I would like to se more mesopotamian civs, specially the Assyrians. They had a big role in that region, great warmachines. I vote for Assyria, as a civ in this wonderfull mod !!

We can include an unlimited amount of CIVs, but only 18 CIVs on any given map.

We've already got Persia, Media, Goths, and Nubia in the MOD, just not on this map.

The plan is to make more maps which have different selections on CIVs. And yes, once we make a Fertile Crescent map, Assyria would have to be in.

 

[Leptomeninges]

The quotations people posted were very helpful. Here is an updated list with techs I'm still needing quotations for.

Alliances
Astrology
Burial Grounds
Cavalry
Ceremonial Burial
Chariot
City States
Despotism
Empire
Espionage
Furnace
Geometry
Greek Fire
Heavy Armor
Holy Book
Map Making
Market
Composite Bow
Road Building
Urbanization
Vice Royalty

The list grew a bit as I sorted things out. Suggestions very welcome.

 

[porsche911]

We can include an unlimited amount of CIVs, but only 18 CIVs on any given map.

We've already got Persia, Media, Goths, and Nubia in the MOD, just not on this map.

The plan is to make more maps which have different selections on CIVs. And yes, once we make a Fertile Crescent map, Assyria would have to be in.

Excellent, keep up with the good work!

 

[thamis]

Alliance:
"Also with the people of Kyrene Amasis made an agreement for
friendship and alliance; and he resolved too to marry a wife from
thence..." - Herodotus, Histories

Astronomy:
"The Egyptians were the first of all men on earth to find out the course of the year, having divided the seasons into twelve parts to make up the whole; and this they said they found out from the stars" - Herodotus, Histories

Despotism:
"When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader." - Plato, Republic Book VIII

Geometry:
"There is no royal road to geometry." - Euclid to King Ptolemy I

Ceremonial Burial:
"The manner of burial for the rich among them is this: For
three days they expose the corpse to view, and they slay all kinds of
victims and feast, having first made lamentation." - Herotodus on the Thracians

Market:
"Now there is a meadow there, in which there was made for them a market and a place for buying and selling; and great quantities of corn came for them regularly from Asia, ready ground." - Herodotus on Phoenician Market

Cavalry:
"Xerxes, after having held in Thessaly a contest for his own horses, making trial also of the Thessalian cavalry, because he was informed that it was the best of all among the Hellenes; and in this trial the horses of Hellas were far surpassed by the others." - Herodotus, Histories

Map Making:
"Aristagoras the despot of Miletos [had] a tablet of bronze, on which was
engraved a map of the whole Earth, with all the sea and all the rivers." - Herodotus, Histories

Furnace:
"Thou however must keep quiet when thou hast come back to thy land; and if thou findest the furnace full of jars, heat not the jars fiercely, but let them go with a fair wind: if however thou heat the furnace fiercely, enter not thou into the place flowed round by water; for if thou dost thou shalt die, both thou and the bull which is fairer than all the rest." - Pythia to Arkesilaos

Urbanization:
"He entered the city of Uruk-the-Town-Sqare, / and a crowd gathered around. / He came to a halt in the street of Uruk-the-Town-Square, / all gathered about, the people discussed him." - The Epic of Gilgamesh TII/P185

Empire:
"To the saint as to the emperor, the world is a poor thing at best." - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

City States:
"Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequaled alike." - Plato, Republic Book VIII

Greek Fire:
"This was the fashion of the Greek fire: it came on as broad in front as a vinegar cask, and the tail of fire that trailed behind it was as big as a great spear; and it made such a noise as it came, that it sounded like the thunder of heaven." - Jean de Joinville, Memoirs

Espionage:
"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you." - Sun Tzu

 

[Laurino]

Hey, wait a minute! Does that mean zoroastrian Hammurabi can win the vote at the council of Nicea?

I guess that if we make Christianity to be a prerequisite for it, then it wouldb't happen...

I gotta say I always get rid of diplomatic victory when I play Vanilla. Having a pathetic peacefull looser build the UN and steal my conquest victory always REALLY REALLY annoyed me

 

[Leptomeninges]

I'm down to the last four! Help me finish this off! Quotations still needed for (the tough ones):

Bridge Building
Heavy Armor
Vice Royalty
Composite Bow