The best CIV player

[Imperator Knoedel]

But I also play with events on, which makes slavery the worst civic in the game.

And I dislike sacrificing my population for RP reasons on top.

You serious? The odd revolt now and then is barely equal to a bump up to high upkeep, and even then it's pretty much always better than Caste System and Emancipation if you can deal with the unhappiness in late game, to say nothing about Serfdom.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Neither mentioning Doshin, Kaitzilla and WastinTime makes this poll slightly superflous.

Those are good players, but it feels like some really, really strong names got lost in antiquity. ABigCivFan, Rusten, and Unconquered_Sun have all pulled ridiculous things in standard and/or difficult deity positions. For example in BOTM 10 U_Sun got HRE to tanks/bombers by early 1400's...on a seafood start and won domination in a game only a handful of players won at all. For a few years after that I can't think of anybody who outplayed Rusten, who really pushed the Cuirassers/Cav strategy then was amused to come back after a break and realize it had become meta .

They rarely made a showing in HoF, and had a small presence in succession GOTM. But when they did, for example Rusten's large deity/quick domination with Russia without even bothering to roll a top tier start, they showed how strong they could be.

I consider the names you mention to be similar.

Not mentioning TMIT or Seraiel?

I don't belong wrt proven ability with Rusten or Seraiel. I could quite possibly beat them on a blazing timer where they get shoved out of comfortable micromanagement levels (even then I wouldn't be confident, but at least it would be possible, unlike more normal settings), but I never attained consistent deity strength because I didn't learn the micro needed for it. I can win on deity sometimes, but when it comes to settings like HoF or XOTM I'm not even in the same tier as them lol.

I don't link this, because I'm ranking in 3rd place, but because many players still don't seem to be aware, how much an achievement it is to be ranked here. This list ofc. is not the list of the best CIV-players of all times, but to achieve it, over 50 Deity-games are needed, basically the whole game with all possible options is requested to have been successfully played if wanting to be on that list. Not seeing even one player of that list being an option in this poll seems somehow wrong imo. .

It is possible to engineer settings to get that list with ability that couldn't match even 1 game played at an elite level. For example if I abused the permanent alliance settings and doctored maps I could get the wins necessary, but it would be garbage compared to some of the stuff you've done to get there and I'd likely be at or near bottom of that list.

It took a while before you bothered to get around to knocking me out of the deity HoF front page, which I "earned" by creating a warmonger/peacemonger hate map split and permanently allying my way into domination, taking a front page entry for a while with like 90 minutes of play and gifting warriors/catapults to the AI lol.

 

[SpK]

But I also play with events on, which makes slavery the worst civic in the game.

And I dislike sacrificing my population for RP reasons on top.

From gamefaq.com

Slave Revolt

Mechanics==-- Chance of Event in Game = 80% Required = Slavery as National Civic At least 4 population Writing, Monotheism, Priesthood, Iron Working
--==Options==-- "Crack down on the rebels. Put down the revolt. Re-establish order." "Restore order first, then investigate and redress some of the slaves' grievances." "We are too busy to be bothered. Leave the matter to the local authorities. (Revolt may continue)."
--==Results==--
Option 1 - "Crack down on the rebels. Put down the revolt. Re-establish order." Cost : None Result : Revolt for 1 Turn -2 Population in City
Option 2 - "Restore order first, then investigate and redress some of the slave's grievances." Cost : 10 Gold Revolt for 1 Turn -1 Population in City
Option 3 - "We are too busy to be bothered. Leave the matter to the local authorities." Cost : None Result : 40% Chance for Slave Revolt Again Revolt for 1 Turn

So you are saying the loss of 1 turn and some pop makes it the worst in the game? That is unless you choose the last option, and even then, it is only a turn (maybe.... maybe more... feel lucky?)

Also to avoid it just skip one of those techs. ...

Honestly I play vanilla so do not even have to worry, but 30 seconds and Google taught me how to "defeat" slave revolts. ..

RP is fine, have fun with it, and with your uber food cities. Unhappy is higher, so revolt is probably more common, but slavery is mathematically proven to be the fastest production, fact, not opinion.

 

[GKey]

Voted for all 4 options, all these players are fantastic, but there are more of cause.

Agree with TMIT, this poll lucking legendary players like USun, Rusten, Snaaty, Obsolete, DanF and more.

Btw proving again, that Super players list and HoF list have nothing in common. Only legendary player on HoF page I recognize - Rusten. And he is # 17.

I wonder what would happen if Kossin or Duckweed would bother with HoF format. Or Snaaty leave his Deity AW games for a moment.
Would that page look the same?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I always hated that event, not because it makes slavery bad, but because slavery vs not is a false choice with or without it existing. Thus good players get punished at random for playing well, potentially significantly. Though one of my most memorable bad event spots was 3x first fire early on without hut money lol.

I wonder what would happen if Kossin or Duckweed would bother with HoF format. Or Snaaty leave his Deity AW games for a moment.
Would that page look the same?

It probably wouldn't look much different. Players optimize for what they're doing. Quite a few of the HoF top contenders are capable deity players. For example wastintime's score optimization is not something Snaaty would know offhand, and is sufficiently micro intensive that it would be very difficult even for other elite players to match. Keep in mind, also, that it is the HoF players that discovered culture wins using espionage as a generator, specifically because the driving factor was turn finish date in an optimized setting, not victory in a difficult setting.

It was similar when looking at how Lord_Parkin wound up losing some of the games he played with the polycast group back then, despite being a significantly stronger player than me (and the others, who I was ahead of as well) in SP as well as PBEM/Pitboss competitive MP. The reasons? Blazing turn timer cut into his micro and a couple surprise military attacks (in a particularly memorable 3v3v3v3 team FFA, his team was running away before ours pulled a cheeky astro bulb and surprise-attacked/razed 75% of their coastal cities on the turn we declared war, resulting in an instant resignation). One game that kind of thing happens, another he's 10 techs up on me and I can't do anything about it, yet another his invasion stack gets overwhelmed by pure HA (not enough spear) and then his metal is cut before he can build more. Back and forth it went, but in terms of average empire strength he was no question better, despite the losses.

Some of the deity players have enough stored micro heuristic to handle blazing timers without too much dropoff (Obsolete did, Rusten probably could), but not everyone, and in most formats it's irrelevant.

For pure SP victory skill, the best measure is probably XOTM, while S&T games and HoF give different perspectives and have different (but related) skillsets required to perform well.

 

[rah]

That is unless you choose the last option, and even then, it is only a turn (maybe.... maybe more... feel lucky?)

I was playing in an MP game and my brother got that event and it lasted for 13 turns and cost him the mids. I was LMAO while trying to sound sympathetic.

I've had it last double digits turns before also. In one game my first three cities all got it at one point for a combined 20 turns.

In an MP game it can be a game changer. I've taken advantage of it when I see an opponent's city go into revolt because of it, and attack knowing he can't whip those REAL defenders and only had to take out a warrior or two.

 

[Seraiel]

Btw proving again, that Super players list and HoF list have nothing in common. Only legendary player on HoF page I recognize - Rusten. And he is # 17.

Not seeing WastinTime (EDIT: +Kaitzilla, Sun Tzu Wu, kovacsflo, Misotu, Moonsinger, tachywaxon, Jesusin, or bcool or Sossos) as a legendary players shows how little you know.

There are a lot more good players that play for HoF, than your favourites.

 

[drewisfat]

TMIT's back!
I've been stalking your rage on the EU4 forums

Arguing about who is the best is silly when people played for different challenges (MP/SP/HOF) and quit years ago.

Last game I ever played with events on = I had a slave revolt in my capital. I was also in a war. I lost my capital. Poorly designed event, 99% of time doesn't matter, 1% instant loss.

 

[Seraiel]

It took a while before you bothered to get around to knocking me out of the deity HoF front page, which I "earned" by creating a warmonger/peacemonger hate map split and permanently allying my way into domination, taking a front page entry for a while with like 90 minutes of play and gifting warriors/catapults to the AI lol.

As a friend, I ofc. knocked you out as late as possible, so once I couldn't see a game like that stand on the frontpage anymore .

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It probably wouldn't look much different. Players optimize for what they're doing. Quite a few of the HoF top contenders are capable deity players.
........

For pure SP victory skill, the best measure is probably XOTM, while S&T games and HoF give different perspectives and have different (but related) skillsets required to perform well.

Well said TMIT, excellent analysis.

 

[SpK]

I was playing in an MP game and my brother got that event and it lasted for 13 turns and cost him the mids. I was LMAO while trying to sound sympathetic.

I've had it last double digits turns before also. In one game my first three cities all got it at one point for a combined 20 turns.

In an MP game it can be a game changer. I've taken advantage of it when I see an opponent's city go into revolt because of it, and attack knowing he can't whip those REAL defenders and only had to take out a warrior or two.

Seems like a few population points is a small price to avoid the risk long term though. ....

I can see playing the odds, but I am sure everyone else has seen three out of four 85%+ odds units lose before too

One time I actually won a war because I had a unit with 1% defend successfully and the AI immediately asked for peace, so I ofc agreed, whipped and army, and got revenge xD

events in multi player seem like they would be too game changing

 

[rah]

I'm not saying that the event makes slavery not a good choice, I'm just saying that sometime the RNG makes you pay. The OP was saying that the penalty was only a few turns. We've seen them last considerably longer.

For us events are fun in MP for the fact that they can be game changing. We're not playing speed games in the lobby. We're playing games with an established group that we know. It's not a dick waiving contest. We know who is more skilled. It's demonstrated over time. Our games are for our enjoyment despite how bloody they can be. How players respond to the unexpected can be just as entertaining as watching them use their skill to methodically dismantle an opponent. I've had some of my most fun games when the RNG has decided to handicap me.

But most importantly it allows a few of the lesser skilled an opportunity to best the better players. And I think that is important for a standing group that it happens because it keeps people interested. Our opponents are our friends IRL.

 

[FlyingSwan]

I'm not saying that the event makes slavery not a good choice, I'm just saying that sometime the RNG makes you pay. The OP was saying that the penalty was only a few turns. We've seen them last considerably longerQUOTE]

Ive been stung too many times with this event and ALWAYs take the pop hit,by the time it gets to the 4th turn of anarchy,you stop and start .

 

[rah]

I'm an optimist so I always figure it's only going to be one or two turns.
My faith is usually misplaced.

And I think it makes SPI a stronger trait because you switch when you need it and lessen the chance of seeing this event.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

As a friend, I ofc. knocked you out as late as possible, so once I couldn't see a game like that stand on the frontpage anymore .

That kind of game didn't deserve to be there, but I couldn't resist the urge to "earn" a front page entry via something so lulzy, even if temporary.

 

[GKey]

Quite a few of the HoF top contenders are capable deity players. For example wastintime's score optimization is not something Snaaty would know offhand, and is sufficiently micro intensive that it would be very difficult even for other elite players to match. Keep in mind, also, that it is the HoF players that discovered culture wins using espionage as a generator, specifically because the driving factor was turn finish date in an optimized setting, not victory in a difficult setting.

I never doubted all HoF contenders are good players (almost all), there are lots of capable deity players in every section of these forums, many can beat deity more then 60% of games, even if not liking it, or playing it.
It was different years ago, when there was only a handful of deity players, who developed strategies and tactics, that had been revolutionary then, but look obvious and are used routinely today.
As you mentioned, Rusten showed the power of cuirassiers, Duckweeed proved cavalry+bombers tactics, it was Kossin who invented culture through espionage strategy in SGOTM 17, Snaaty never had deity hard enough and was playing AW with 30% success on random map (!!!), Obsolete developed wonders economy, and more. In addition these and other players, I call legendary, discovered and optimized different types of economies and micro tricks, that are routine now. Thanks to them we got so many capable deity players today.

Some of the deity players have enough stored micro heuristic to handle blazing timers without too much dropoff (Obsolete did, Rusten probably could), but not everyone, and in most formats it's irrelevant.

For pure SP victory skill, the best measure is probably XOTM, while S&T games and HoF give different perspectives and have different (but related) skillsets required to perform well.

MP with blazing timer is all different beast. There aren't many who could stand your warp speed of playing. I completely agree though, XOTM been best measure of skill, distinguishing true legendary players.

Obsolete, you're arrogant...And now go home and l2p.

I might be know little, ma chere Seraiel, yet reading through various articles posted by aforementioned players shows how light years ahead they are in terms of game understanding. May be you should take your time and try to read these too. May be then your posts will contain tiny bit of actual value aside of insults and self advertising.

 

[Seraiel]

I might be know little, ma chere Seraiel, yet reading through various articles posted by aforementioned players shows how light years ahead they are in terms of game understanding. May be you should take your time and try to read these too. May be then your posts will contain tiny bit of actual value aside of insults and self advertising.

Ofc., you can judge who has a deeper understanding, with "knowing little" as you say yourself. Also, isn't "I might be know little" correct english? Or did you want to write "I might be little" ? And, my classes in french are long ago, but I think it's "mon" chere, not "ma" chere.

Oh wait: I need to build Stonehenge, settle all of my GPs and not chop my Forests. Thx for making me aware of such osolete pristine tactics .

[EDIT]

P.S.: Thx for digging out that statement I made 3-4y ago, I knew I had a way of giving "on spot advice" back then already.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: GKey and Seraiel, please stop the personal sniping, it is trolling. Let us get back to civil discussion please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Rusten]

First off, there really is no best player so I usually ignore these topics.

However, it's such a shame that succession game players are always missing from these lists. It's a criminally underappreciated and underutilised forum section, especially throughout BTS, so it warrants a special mention.

Going back to the warlords and vanilla days you could learn so much from reading SGs with for instance Mutineer, acidsatyr and uberfish in them. Mutineer especially was one of my inspirations for learning the FE when I was an aspiring deity player (and a little later also Unconquered Sun). Mutineer's (usually unintended) confrontational posting style was also hilarious. Mainly due to english not being first language.

I stopped playing this game years ago now, but I can still remember the succession games I played in vividly. Big shout-out to everyone involved in the UNGY-series especially. OTOH I don't remember any S&T forum games. I learned so much more and had much more fun playing SGs with restrictions forcing you to think outside the box than I did playing regular games and it pains me that so few others could experience it as the forum section was largely ignored.

By now the SG section is completely dead, so don't bother, but if there is ever a new (good) civilization or similar game released do yourself a favour and get involved in SGs, both for fun and learning.

Succession game of the month still has some traffic I think, but that's a different animal entirely -- much more hardcore and most of all grindy. Regular SGs are more light-hearted and fun.

 

[Manco Capac]

Those are good players, but it feels like some really, really strong names got lost in antiquity. ABigCivFan, Rusten, and Unconquered_Sun have all pulled ridiculous things in standard and/or difficult deity positions. For example in BOTM 10 U_Sun got HRE to tanks/bombers by early 1400's...on a seafood start and won domination in a game only a handful of players won at all. For a few years after that I can't think of anybody who outplayed Rusten, who really pushed the Cuirassers/Cav strategy then was amused to come back after a break and realize it had become meta .

*snip*

This. You defined well the abstract key points regarding the gaming environment leading to different goals.

To push one step further the classification: micromanagers vs big picture gamers.
One thing I noticed over the years is those who master the art of getting the big picture right are generally those who become the legendary players. Most of these names you just dusted off from the annals are generally goal-oriented players.

They've got this instinct that is likely part of their natural talent. Something that is not accessible to everyone (I know I don't have this big-picture-ability).
That is what makes a legend player. Someone pays them to play a micromanaged game (to give incentives they don't have for this time-wasting process) and they'll outdo by miles all micromanagers. I think so anyways.

Most of the time, leaders are big picture men and women. Just an opinion.

ALSO, this thread is big circle-jerking, m8! (not pointing at you, TMIT btw).

I think no one mentioned Shakabrade dude.
And Mylene dude (under a new name...Kipkip was it?...forgot whatever)