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The birth of a new american aristocracy?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Chose, May 29, 2018.

  1. Chose

    Chose Chieftain

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    I came across this article in the Atlantic and thought it was interesting, https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/. It's quite long but here are some quotes for this discussion, highlighting who "the 9.9 percent" are, what advantages they have, and how hard it is to move in and out of this group:

    Do you agree "the 9.9 percent" is a legitimate class? If so, how much of the wealth imbalance should be blamed on them? How should people in this group fight "for opportunities for other people’s children" and alleviate the wealth imbalance... or is it just a matter of the federal government taxing them more and more?
     
  2. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    These are the people that have sway over local politics, that do things like keep lower income housing away from desirable locations that hurts the social and economic mobility of people lower than them on the economic ladder.
     
    stfoskey12 and Bootstoots like this.
  3. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

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    College is too expensive basically. You either go into massive debt and can't ever recover or your parents pay for you, which is what these 9.9% people do. Other opportunities matter like knowing people for internship opportunities and such but the biggest separator is education.

    And we've lost most of the good paying blue collar jobs you could get without college as well. But that's due in large to globalization so really we have to push our workforce upwards.
     
    stfoskey12 and Hrothbern like this.
  4. rah

    rah Chieftain Supporter

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    There are still quite a few of those good paying blue collar jobs in the trades. Trade school is a better investment for many.
     
    stfoskey12 likes this.
  5. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy As you wish.

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    Yeah, but that's where all the yucky people who are too stupid to be ashamed are. :lol:
     
  6. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

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    Yeah that is a very good alternative but trade schools aren't emphasized at all, at least not from my experience. It was always what colleges are you applying to, and those who weren't likely to go it was what family business can you get into? You only got into a trade if like your uncle or friend's dad ran a roofing company or something. I never once heard a guidance counselor recommend an hvac school or something.

    I think technical degrees are going to start to erode into more trade type of schools actually because you don't need semesters of liberal arts to write code or solve it issues, just some specific courses. That would drop the cost of college a lot.
     
  7. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yep, socioeconomic mobility is not very good in the U.S. and it's getting worse.

    It's not great here in Canada, but from what I remember reading it's better

    Unfortunately for as long as $$$ and corporations rule your country, this isn't going to improve
     
  8. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I always liked the name “the aspirational 14%”
     
  9. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I don't get the point. Are we supposed to be jealous of them? Feel bad if we are one?

    I see alot of these "some people have it better than others" articles... like "yeah, what's your point?"

    Also, "aristocracy" is a weird word choice. Semi-rich people are not aristocracy.
     
  10. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    In the Netherlands, schools in poor neighbourhoods receive more funding. In the US...
     
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  11. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

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    Trade school is sort of an option, but it's getting mentioned a lot here without the mention of costs. Yes, it's cheaper than a 4 year degree. But when I looked into it last year trade school would have still cost me 40 thousand dollars to graduate from.
     
  12. rah

    rah Chieftain Supporter

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    Was it a trump trade school?

    The point is that it's still cheaper and there is a demand for many of the skilled trades, unlike the demand for Liberal Arts graduates.
     
  13. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    A lot of people aren't cut out for a career in the skilled trades.

    The point is that the upper-middle class is hoarding all of the opportunity in America. We would all be better off if that stopped happening.
     
  14. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    But at least if you get a loan to go to a trade school, you'll be able to pay it back. If you take a loan to go to a crappy college or to get a degree for which there aren't many job opportunities, odds are you'll be in trouble.

    ---

    At the end of the day no model is perfect and never will everyone be pleased. The German educational model gets a lot of praise - and I agree it deserves praise - but people forget how brutal and exclusionary it can be. Which is a price they pay and it works very well for them. But I'm not sure Americans would like it.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Still not really answering luiz's question, and it's not trivial to make viable/enforceable polity that can accomplish a vague outcome like "some arbitrary stratification of people stops "hoarding opportunity"", where "opportunity" is itself vaguely defined.
     
  16. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Ok, start here if you want concrete examples of what I'm talking about.
     
  17. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

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    Nah (about it being Trump lol). The average for trade school is like 35k so it wasn't far off. It's more than, say, a two year degree at a community college, and while the pay is theoretically better, there's also potentially a lot of licensing and continuing education fees depending on the trade. There's also not a lot of ready info on them. I can quickly google and find all kinds of local "trade schools" with "Medical" or "Beauty" in the name with 2 star reviews on Google. But if I want to find a seemingly well reputed school it's a hike. And at that point, I'm better off seeing what trades my local community college offers, since they usually have many on hand, and it's a lot closer.
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Still not answering the question, and an arbitrary opinion piece doesn't address what I said either.
     
  19. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I think the top 10% don't understand their luck. But that's not where the wealth imbalance is.
     
  20. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    The piece explains quite clearly how people atop the economic ladder systematically exclude people of more modest means from opportunities for them or their children to improve their lives. They do this by imposing costs for improvement that can only be reasonably afforded by those who are already in the top 20% or so in terms of income and/or wealth.

    I thought you were asking for clarification regarding who is doing the "hoarding," and what exactly is meant by "opportunity." The piece I linked to spells that out and gives examples. You can disagree with it, but I'm not sure what you're asking about, if not an explanation of the "who and what" is involved in hoarding opportunity in America.
     

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