The Born GP farm
- Thread starter Drofd
- Start date
Black Waltz
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2002
- Messages
- 569
But late game you will still feel the burdern of the 8 unhealthiness and it will never be a size that makes an overwhelming GP farm compared to a merely good GP farm.
Both pictures are very good GP cities.
I had a game with 3 floodplain cities,the unhappiness
was a bigger problem than the unhealthiness.Instead
of building improvements I used the Caste System.
Those jungle GP cities maybe less unhealthy,but
it takes too long to get your first GP.I prefer
several GP cities to collect GPPs.
I had a game with 3 floodplain cities,the unhappiness
was a bigger problem than the unhealthiness.Instead
of building improvements I used the Caste System.
Those jungle GP cities maybe less unhealthy,but
it takes too long to get your first GP.I prefer
several GP cities to collect GPPs.
Roland Johansen
Deity
Black Waltz said:
Don't you realize that in the late game, the food bonus from all of those floodplain tiles compared to grasland tiles is much bigger than the food penalty caused by 8 unhealthyness. 16 flood plain tiles produce 16 food more than 16 grasland tiles and lose 8 food extra due to unhealthyness. Those 8 food lost are not a problem as the city produces 16 food more. The net result is +8 food, or +4 specialists.
The unhealthyness is a problem in the early game as you can't get the city started then due to a lack of health production from food resources. But once you're over that hurdle, the massive food production from lots of floodplain tiles is more then enough to compensate for the loss of food due to unhealthyness.
Landmonitor
Prince
What difficulty is this on?
Landmonitor
Prince
Actually, also, what map seed, climate, number of Civs, game speed, and map size is this too?
Landmonitor
Prince
Oh and yeah, my 2 cents on this city would also be to make it a commerce city, but then I never really work the great person aspect too hard... If I think of anything to add to this, I'll edit this message instead of adding another new one!
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
As many of the better players have said, that city will bring huge amounts of unhealthiness and don't think about playing it on a high diificulty level and hope to get past size 1 without a major struggle.
The land is good if you divide it up amongst several cities...e.g have your city only with 3-4 tiles of flood plain - so have a little explore and settle alittle way from that place
For me, my dream start will have gold, lots of gold on plains hills next to rivers...a little food and you'll be producing an insane amount of commerce soon enough and watching the techs flood on in.
The land is good if you divide it up amongst several cities...e.g have your city only with 3-4 tiles of flood plain - so have a little explore and settle alittle way from that place
For me, my dream start will have gold, lots of gold on plains hills next to rivers...a little food and you'll be producing an insane amount of commerce soon enough and watching the techs flood on in.
Zombie69
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,902
I think flood plains are much better used as cottage cities than as GPF. The unhealthiness is just too prohibitive for a city such as a GPF which requires a big population.
In my current game, the Americans' capital had 6 bonus food resources. Now that's a GPF to be proud of! I've been aiming to capture it even since i discovered it but it was so well defended that i really couldn't do it for a very long time. I finally did just before discovering printing press and scientific method. Now i can finally build the National Epic and start massive GP production!
In my current game, the Americans' capital had 6 bonus food resources. Now that's a GPF to be proud of! I've been aiming to capture it even since i discovered it but it was so well defended that i really couldn't do it for a very long time. I finally did just before discovering printing press and scientific method. Now i can finally build the National Epic and start massive GP production!
Landmonitor
Prince
Thanks. I was going to give it a shot, but I don't like the difficulty. Does anyone know how to change the difficulty level in a game that has already started? Or to just use the same seed and starting position but with different Civ or difficulty? Maybe this should be a different thread...
That's a terrible GP farm. I'd choose two food resources and the rest grasslands over that ludicrous unhealthiness any day.
It might be decent (not good) in the late game, but who cares? It will absolutely suck early on, dragging you down.
The only good city with over 5 food plains is one that also has at least one large food resource that can be worked (not simply linked up for health). Unless you are an Exp civ, then maye you can handle 7 food plains or something. (Victoria would be ideal for such a starting location, but on most other starts Elizabeth is better so you'll rarely find yourself in such a situation with Vicky)
It might be decent (not good) in the late game, but who cares? It will absolutely suck early on, dragging you down.
The only good city with over 5 food plains is one that also has at least one large food resource that can be worked (not simply linked up for health). Unless you are an Exp civ, then maye you can handle 7 food plains or something. (Victoria would be ideal for such a starting location, but on most other starts Elizabeth is better so you'll rarely find yourself in such a situation with Vicky)
Let me reiterate, I played this game and the flood plains in the picture only cause 4 unhealthyness. I don't know where you guys are getting your numbers, but I can assure you the unhealthiness is only 4. I'm new to Civ4 but on noble, that seems easy to counterbalance.
I'll finish up the game tonight I think with a domination win.
Sure, at size 35 or whatever I'm at right now I'm having a bit of a health problem, but only by a few food.
I'll finish up the game tonight I think with a domination win.
Sure, at size 35 or whatever I'm at right now I'm having a bit of a health problem, but only by a few food.
I just finished this map and at the end of the game (I past turns after domination victory just so I could get enough future tech health to let the city grow to maximum--during that time I did not add any more super specialists, I simply deleted the ones I got) and here were the final city stats:
Size: 47
Food: 94 (2 x 47)
GPP: 204 (leader was not philisophical, but did build epic)
Science: 1280 (running representation, 100% science, caste system)
Not a bad little city. As it turns out, it had both iron and coal in it's radius too (though I can't remember if the coal popped up or was always there), though I did not build the ironworks there, but the production was nice for wonders (and hence increasing GPP).
If that coal was there from the get go, I definitely think the best way to go is to start the first city 2 squares up (still have both coal/iron but also more plains/hills) and another to the south w/o overlapping as a cottage spam city.
There were plenty of 2 and 3 food source city locations for GPP too.
Size: 47
Food: 94 (2 x 47)
GPP: 204 (leader was not philisophical, but did build epic)
Science: 1280 (running representation, 100% science, caste system)
Not a bad little city. As it turns out, it had both iron and coal in it's radius too (though I can't remember if the coal popped up or was always there), though I did not build the ironworks there, but the production was nice for wonders (and hence increasing GPP).
If that coal was there from the get go, I definitely think the best way to go is to start the first city 2 squares up (still have both coal/iron but also more plains/hills) and another to the south w/o overlapping as a cottage spam city.
There were plenty of 2 and 3 food source city locations for GPP too.
Roland Johansen
Deity
That's a great city. I wonder how the science got that high though. Maybe a serious number of super specialists combined with great trade routes (and of course a large number of representation enhanced scientists, but that part is clear).
But as I said earlier in the thread, the food bonus from flood plains more than compensates the food loss caused by unhealthiness once you're over that early game hurdle where the unhealthiness slows growth while you don't have the food surplus by working a lot of flood plains yet.
Each flood plain tile causes 0.4 unhealthiness and apparently your city had 12 or less flood plain tiles, only getting 4 unhealthiness. That can be overcome rather soon.
But as I said earlier in the thread, the food bonus from flood plains more than compensates the food loss caused by unhealthiness once you're over that early game hurdle where the unhealthiness slows growth while you don't have the food surplus by working a lot of flood plains yet.
Each flood plain tile causes 0.4 unhealthiness and apparently your city had 12 or less flood plain tiles, only getting 4 unhealthiness. That can be overcome rather soon.
fyi...16 flood plains only produces 6 unhealthy (not 8)
I dumped nearly all my super specialists into the city (until I was just growing it at the end to see how big the number would go--at that point I decided I should not dump more into it since it would distort the numbers if I continued to dump super specialists into it).
I'd take a screenshot, but I don't know how. ><
Also, I did only have the city to about 35ish before I got future techs.
The -4 health from the flood plains was a minor inconvenience and only a small problem early in the game. Then again I'm still getting used to this game, so maybe it should have bothered me more than it did--I was quite aggressive in grabbing health resources.
I'd take a screenshot, but I don't know how. ><
Also, I did only have the city to about 35ish before I got future techs.
The -4 health from the flood plains was a minor inconvenience and only a small problem early in the game. Then again I'm still getting used to this game, so maybe it should have bothered me more than it did--I was quite aggressive in grabbing health resources.
Roland Johansen
Deity
WastinTime said:
Yes, I know. In the post directly before yours, I mentioned that floodplains give 0.4 unhealthiness which of course amounts to 6 unhealthiness with 16 floodplains.
Someone earlier mentioned that 2 flood plains gave 1 unhealthiness and I didn't bother to check if this was correct. But, it really doesn't matter that much. The food surplus from flood plains is a lot bigger than the unhealthiness effect whether it is 0.4 or 0.5. It just matters at the start of the game, when you're not using all of the floodplains yet but are getting the unhealthiness effect.
SKSmokes said:
To take a screenshot:
Press the Print Screen button (usually close to the scroll lock and the pause/break button).
Find the screenshot in the screenshots directory which can be found via a link in the main directory of the civilization folder.
I think that screenshots of both situations would be interesting. At size 35 to see how big it would 'normally' get within a game. And at size 47 just for the coolness.
friskymike
Listening to:
Enter the world builder CAREFULLY, looking only at the top right corner icons so you don't see the minimap or where advanced resources are etc., and make a world builder save. When you load this file, you will have the chance to choose difficulty and speed again. Also which civlisation to play that exist in the world, which kind of spoils the suprise of meeting them, but you can avoid looking at it too closelyLandmonitor said:
Entering the worldbuilder should really start in a mode that only shows what you currently know, with an option to then reveal the whole map and resources.
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