The Celts

[ElliotS]

Huh. Strange.

Then do you think +3 /// works/is enough?

 

[CrazyG]

Huh. Strange.

Then do you think +3 /// works/is enough?

Probably

 

[Workerspam]

The fact is that by forcing you to work a specialist that costs a TON of food early, Skilled one costs a LOT for it's yields, while Dagda is free and automatic.

Making it scaling as is would be the bold choice, scaling at +2 // would be the conservative (and probably correct) choice and making it a non-scaling +3 /// is the interesting choice.

Good point on the extra food specialists now require; along with the increased unhappiness that would lower Skilled One's overall yield return. I tend to ignore the impact beta changes have on civilization specific traits since beta changes are so fluid (see the recent Carthage investment thread) but it's worth identifying potential issues now rather than after the patch is released. Agree, if the food requirements and unhappiness from specialists stay at the current beta values then Skilled one would likely need a little extra something to make it competitive.

I like +3 /// as a potential option. +1 in place or in addition to the food would also make it stand out from the other options and give it, while not scaling, at least a long term benefit while also negating the unhappiness brought on by the required specialist.

 

[Rekk]

Please post ReligionAI logs for belief scoring. Otherwise I can’t help.

G

According to the thread linked in Bug Reports – Please Read!, I only need to turn on ValidateDatabase and LoggingEnabled. Is this all that's needed to see the ReligionAI and other logs?

 

[Gazebo]

According to the thread linked in Bug Reports – Please Read!, I only need to turn on ValidateDatabase and LoggingEnabled. Is this all that's needed to see the ReligionAI and other logs?

AI logging as well.

G

 

[CrazyG]

I like +3 /// as a potential option. +1 in place or in addition to the food would also make it stand out from the other options and give it, while not scaling, at least a long term benefit while also negating the unhappiness brought on by the required specialist.

This pantheon is actually already really strong early game happiness. 3/ will remove all bordedom and illiteracy. 3, rushing the market for another three, and working the merchant for another 3 kill poverty. It lets you expand several cities very quickly while often staying positive in happiness

 

[Rekk]

AI logging as well.

G

Sorry, I must have done something wrong. I'm not seeing any AI logs.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I'm not seeing Celtia try to spread her religion, and now that she can deny her neighbors their pantheon, it seems like she'd really want to push it out there more.

 

[IcyAngel]

I'm not seeing Celtia try to spread her religion, and now that she can deny her neighbors their pantheon, it seems like she'd really want to push it out there more.

She can? People keep their pantheon instead of hers?

 

[Moi Magnus]

She can? People keep their pantheon instead of hers?

No, what he means is that since Celtic cities does not generate (nor receive) any pressure, if they never propagate their religion to a forein city (and never lose a city to war), others civs can't have their religion.

 

[Ziad]

I think only Celts gain the benefit of their pantheon, so if she spreads her religion to other civs, they effectively get no pantheon (but they get followers/reformations).

 

[Gothic_Empire]

She can? People keep their pantheon instead of hers?

If she spreads her religion to a city with a pantheon, that city will lose its pantheon entirely like normal, but will NOT get the Celtic pantheon.

My gripe is that I don't see Boudy-C sending out missionaries, since she can set her neighbors back quite a bit with them.

 

[Gazebo]

If she spreads her religion to a city with a pantheon, that city will lose its pantheon entirely like normal, but will NOT get the Celtic pantheon.

My gripe is that I don't see Boudy-C sending out missionaries, since she can set her neighbors back quite a bit with them.

That is incorrect. Anyone who gets her pantheon can use it.

G

 

[pandasnail]

That is incorrect. Anyone who gets her pantheon can use it.

G

Is that a recent change? I played a game in November I think where even after I conquered her Holy City, I was getting no yields from the pantheon, unless they were hidden in the UI I guess. But normally pantheons are easy to find in the UI. And back in September you said this:

All that said, I have an easy solution to this that, as it happens, I've already been testing. Celtic UA tweak:

Has a unique set of Pantheon Beliefs that no one else can benefit from. Cities with your Religion generate nor receive foreign Religious Pressure. +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith in owned Cities where your Religion is the majority.

 

[Gazebo]

Is that a recent change? I played a game in November I think where even after I conquered her Holy City, I was getting no yields from the pantheon, unless they were hidden in the UI I guess. But normally pantheons are easy to find in the UI. And back in September you said this:

Mmm, you're totally right, I forgot I made that change a while back. Looking at it right now in the DLL. I had her AI code set not to spread, but I should remove that now. Will do.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Maybe we can rethink the "her religion doesn't spread naturally" bit then, too?

 

[Gazebo]

Maybe we can rethink the "her religion doesn't spread naturally" bit then, too?

Mmm, I see it as a feature, tbh. You can keep your religion if you want. Once you start spreading outside of owned cities it has pressure like normal. Anti-gandhi.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Mmm, I see it as a feature, tbh. You can keep your religion if you want. Once you start spreading outside of owned cities it has pressure like normal. Anti-gandhi.

G

It has a lot less pressure, I thought. Trade routes and roads not importing pressure is nice, but trade routes and roads not exporting pressure means you need a lot more faith than normal invested in your first big push outside of your borders. Makes it harder to keep your religion in neighboring cities.

She feels unique though, and her needing special strategies base on a resource she naturally has more of is neat.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Huh, today I learned...

That's interesting, opens up a whole new can of strategizing for the Celts.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Mmm, you're totally right, I forgot I made that change a while back. Looking at it right now in the DLL. I had her AI code set not to spread, but I should remove that now. Will do.
G

Maybe this detail should appear somewhere on the civilopedia (if not already the case)