Gokudo01
Emperor
So after all this whining we are back to stronger celt than before the nerf : nice
Well if that is an option I am all for it! Doesn't this encourage Celts to spread as much as possible though because you are essentially denying the city you spread to a pantheon? Not sure if this is too much of an issue though.
Yup. While you are working on the Celts, can you take a look at their personality/behavior? It seems they are one of the most friendly Civs early in the game despite having one of the earliest UUs that NEEDS to be taken advantage of.
Isn't that also confirmation bias though?Observation bias- I see a lot of celtic murder.
G
I don't know about that. Both Epona and Lugh are quite a bit weaker than they were before, and the social policy changes really hurt her as wellSo after all this whining we are back to stronger celt than before the nerf : nice
Seems like a solid solution, I will try out the new beliefs (Ogma and Nuada in particular seem much better with this change)
Isn't that also confirmation bias though?
How many AI games is that, out of curiosity?I'd say that, empirically, the number of AI games I dissect moves me beyond limited observation bias and into the realm of quantitative analysis.
G
How many AI games is that, out of curiosity?
Seems like a solid solution, I will try out the new beliefs (Ogma and Nuada in particular seem much better with this change)
Isn't that also confirmation bias though?
I don't know about that. Both Epona and Lugh are quite a bit weaker than they were before, and the social policy changes really hurt her as well
Celts never were overpowered, in all of my games they were performing quite bad even before nerf.no we are back to celt being able to secure religion just by settling. The difference between 2 and 3 is that with3faith i can build shrine in my capital, ignore it in my other cities and i dont even need to know that pickish warrior generate faith :
You get a religion just by being in the game
Which should never be the case because religions have almost got too strong bonus and impact over the game until late(even stronger with celt) and you should work for it in order to get them.
Try ignore religion in your next game with a non religion civs, you will have a really rough game.
Moreover 2 faith per city is on average for other civs, a super strong local pantheon or god of commerce which requires a heavy investement to make it worth fast enough to get a religion
All in all celt has always been strong(overpower before the nerf) when played the optimal way and the only thing that needed a tweak after the nerf is the ub which is not bad but not great like lots of ub or ui.
Celts never were overpowered, in all of my games they were performing quite bad even before nerf.
Keep in mind that religion IS Celtic UA. They MUST have a religion and it should be strong. You can't ignore shrines in all other cities, because (1) you loose faith from pantheon when you found (2) you want a religion ASAP, it is the only advantage that you have in this game!
Imagine two civs with the same land and same amount of cities, and imagine they founded religion the same turn and they have the same faith-per-turn income. One civ is Celts, the other civ is Korea. Who will perform better? This is why Celts get religion "for being in the game" (as well as Byz, btw)
Let me ask, just how aggressive is Boudicca, quantitatively speaking?I'd say that, empirically, the number of AI games I dissect moves me beyond limited observation bias and into the realm of quantitative analysis.
G
The Celts definitely used to be OP. On like the February version I'm confident I could win like 100 games in a row on Deity as Celts, it was ridiculously easy. The AI doesn't understand that it has to snowball, but some of the pantheons were really ridiculousImagine two civs with the same land and same amount of cities, and imagine they founded religion the same turn and they have the same faith-per-turn income. One civ is Celts, the other civ is Korea. Who will perform better? This is why Celts get religion "for being in the game" (as well as Byz, btw)
Let me ask, just how aggressive is Boudicca, quantitatively speaking?
The thing about confirmation bias is that it confirms a pre-existing opinion, but originally I thought she would be super aggressive, like Persia or Songhai. So this isn't confirmation bias, Boudicca seems very naturally pre-disposed towards friendship. She will not charge extreme values for luxuries like the other warmongers do. I believe you've seen her go aggressive early, but I'm sure you've also seen India do the same.
The Celts definitely used to be OP. On like the February version I'm confident I could win like 100 games in a row on Deity as Celts, it was ridiculously easy. The AI doesn't understand that it has to snowball, but some of the pantheons were really ridiculous
And at 3 faith per city I usually didn't build shrines until after a lot of other stuff. This is why I really advocated dropping the faith on kill if it went back to 3 per city[/QUOTE
Not building shrines is somewhat by design. Lets them focus on early war if they want.
G
The thing about confirmation bias is that it confirms a pre-existing opinion, but originally I thought she would be super aggressive, like Persia or Songhai. So this isn't confirmation bias, Boudicca seems very naturally pre-disposed towards friendship. She will not charge extreme values for luxuries like the other warmongers do. I believe you've seen her go aggressive early, but I'm sure you've also seen India do the same.
That is not confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is when you hold a belief, so you tend to remember experiences which confirm that belief, while ignoring experiences which do not. Observing something that happens isn't confirmation bias, I really don't think the Celts fight more often early on than an average civ. If fact, what G has posted doesn't dispute that idea (only that he has seen them go aggressive, but I've seen everyone go aggressive and he certainly has too)You saw the Celts be peaceful in a (necessarily limited) number of games, so confirmation bias led you to the conclusion that they don't play as aggressively as they should.
That is not confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is when you hold a belief, so you tend to remember experiences which confirm that belief, while ignoring experiences which do not. Observing something that happens isn't confirmation bias, I really don't think the Celts fight more often early on than an average civ. If fact, what G has posted doesn't dispute that idea (only that he has seen them go aggressive, but I've seen everyone go aggressive and he certainly has too)
The thing is for most of my time playing this mod, I expected the Celts to be a warmonger and played expecting that. So if confirmation bias is a factor, it would dispose me to think they are more aggressive than they actually are. There are several objective and observable things that most of the warmongers do, which the Celts do not. How they manage luxury trades or how they denounce early on. I do see the Celts fight sometimes, but only if I have a negative modifier with them, such as territorial disputes or CS rivalries (all civs will sometimes be aggressive in these circumstances). Boudicca should be as consistently aggressive as Askia or Montezuma (and she needs to do it early)
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 8 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_WAR';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 6 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_HOSTILE';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 8 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_DECEPTIVE';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 8 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_GUARDED';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 6 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_AFRAID';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 8 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_FRIENDLY';
UPDATE Leader_MajorCivApproachBiases SET Bias = 8 WHERE LeaderType = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA' AND MajorCivApproachType = 'MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_NEUTRAL';
UPDATE Leaders SET Personality='PERSONALITY_DIPLOMAT' WHERE Type = 'LEADER_BOUDICCA';