The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[Zalcron]

superb scenario and l love the level of detail on all the units and the civilepia, just one thing, is there anyway to stop everyone kicking the deleted out of each other. I was opn turn 22 happily devoloping the USSR's infastructure and then the UK capture sLeningrad forcing all my allies to Declare war on them, and now 3 turns later a world war is raging on (which i am unprepared for as i have been improving my economy rather than military)


The difficultiy level i am on is monarch and i lowered the aggression levels to none, but still the bastards kick off. I can appreciate the merit of locked alliances to avoid silly little wars but this seems to result in a world war instead and to be honest i dont really like having many wars. Any suggestions anyone or edit fixes i could try??

 

[Chieftess]

Moderator Action: Sturmgewehr, Read the forum rules. There was no reason for you to say that. There are young kids that come to this forum, and their parents may find it offensive.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[IXIRandyIXI]

Zalcron, just set the aggression level to the lowest and keep your cities decently defended (i.e. 3 good defenders, and maybe an attacker, in each city) so that the computer won't think that it can just waltz into one of your cities and start WW3.

Other than that, all you can do is pray that there isn't a warmongering AI amongst you in your game (not likely ) and just make sure that you are prepared for war next time. Any nation that neglects their military is likely to be taken advantage of by another more powerful nation.

 

[Klyden]

I have done a lot of play testing of a lot of positions and basically, there are going to be wars. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), they have a tendancy to be pretty short because two countries in each alliance make peace someplace and that forces pretty much everyone to make peace or the country that breaks that peace (IE, the human) finds pretty much the whole world mad at him, even his allies.

You can delay the war many times by doing tribute if you are not ready. Cash is usually not in short supply, so that is generally not an issue if it is important to remain at peace. It should serve as a warning that war is coming soon. Also, watch your espionage activity because if you get caught, the other side generally will declare war on you. Finally, once a war does start, you may not be involved directly at the start and you might have 2-3 turns to get ready for it, but it will come.

Several games I have played, I have had 3 wars by 1965, but all were relatively short. You can do some infrastructure right off the bat, but after that, you have to mix building the military with infrastructure or wind up paying for unprepardness the hard way.

 

[Oi!tschland]

playtest report v1.4-jan21

ok setup a game on monarch as the scandinavians... aggression level normal

jan 60: check science . go for nuclear power with aim at mech inf. for better defense against that red monster near me
jun 60: parts of soviet arctic fleet move to east sea
aug 60: intercept isreali spy attempt, soviet fleet in leningrad now
nov 60: notice that germany has tradeable resource "netherlands" o_O
russians demand 55 gold, i deny -> declare war world war III starts
i pray that they dont hit me in first place
jan 61: capture soviet worker with infantry
feb 61: soviet move with 2 infantry and 1 tank to northern finland
soviets take dhaka
mar 61: my only tank kills soviet tank and promotes to elite
may 61: rush leo in oslo to gain the initiative against russia
jun 61: philadelphia build rocknroll wonder
jul 61: nuclear power -> mech inf.
israel conquers bagdad o_O
aug 61: the world is at peace again
bagdad is retaken by arabs
jan 62: notice that art of war wonder has been constructed in canberra /australia in 1960
it gets boring without war, so i plan to attack murmansk with 2 leopard tanks as soon as i have 3 of them so that the third can defend my cities
oslo my most productive city now makes 42 shields with factory
upgrade infrastructure / happiness in most cities
apr 62: canberra builds observatory as second wonder of that city o_O
i am 7th in manufactured goods stats
jul 62: after 30 rounds time in between turns has increased to 90 secs on my 2,8 ghz athlon
mech inf. -> ecology for happiness issues
im able to build the first types of mech inf now, but see no need for that since leo has most defense of all units PLUS best offense at that time, the price difference is fairly low for that big difference in effectiveness, maybe make apc cheaper to encourage constructing...
oct 63: im bored and declare war on soviet union, while having an army of 5 leos
nov 63: scandinavia takes murmansk
dec 63: soviets take hannover
soviets lose vinh
jan 64: turks and italy conquer yugoslawia which is no more ...
feb 64: british sink soviet landing party near scotland
a stack of 5 soviet t55 is incoming to murmansk o_O, i kill one and start praying
may 64: massive soviet infantry assault near murmansk, start killing them slowly with leos
jun 64: noooooo its peace again :E, redeclare immedeatly, kill 7 soviet infantry and one tank
aug 64: soviet hannover withstands several tank assaults by west europe, soviets are ammassing tanks near hannover
leos in murmansk and helsinki easily fend off two attacking t55
oct 64: soviets take munich (oh nooo,i look out of the window for soviet tanks )
china somehow managed to take whole korea
nov 64: soviets take amsterdam and kopenhagen , launch offensive to leningrad to make them pay
dec 64: my forces take petrozavodsk
jan 65: madrid builds overseas trade wonder
assault on leningrad spawns great leader -> leo army
soviets take stuttgart
israel take mosul
central africa takes algiers from italy
apr 65: peace again, redeclare and take leningrad with my shiny new army
new target: poland -> retake kopenhagen and germany
jun 65: massive soviet counterattack with 15 t64 tanks
aug 65: killed ~ 15 t64 with leos, lose only one leo
soviets take chittagong
india takes hyderabad
sep 65: houston builds international arms trade wonder
leos continue to kick ass
oct 65: second military leader appears
china takes pnomh penh and bangkok, i spot chinese tank near leningrad
nov 65: my military presently consists of 6 garrison infantry and 11 leopard, of which 5 are in armies and i have no problem defending against soviet tank hordes, maybe a little tweaking may be appropriate (or i play on a too low difficulty level)
science is on 10% while researching armoured tactics, even changing it to 90% wont change research time :/
4 core cities oslo / trondheim / helsinki / stockholm produce nothing but leo tanks and garrison infantry
newly conquered cities and reykjavik build infrastructure / happinesss
scandinavia is approximately 10th in pop / mfgoods / GNP and land area stats

i decide to play more turns later and to post the results in the forum so that you may have some initial feedback and get a rough idea of how scandinavia plays

 

[warmwaffles]

WOW nice report

 

[Oi!tschland]

playtest part 2:

jan 66: take warsaw
mar 66: world peace again
jun 66: madrid builds war memorial wonder
sep 66: ask commies to leave my territory -> declare war -> 15 leopard tanks waiting for orders
take berlin
oct 66: usa demand 65 gold -> send him home
dec 66: spanish take munich and stuttgart
west german soviet cities are cut off from mainland
helsinki builds national park
armoured tactics -> advanced carriers in 12 turns
take dresden
feb 67: take hannover
new york builds lunar landing wonder
apr 67: NATO tank armies enter russian soil
france takes amsterdam
chinese tanks advance near dresden
jul 67: take kiew, NATO tanks near odessa, begin siege of moscow
aug 67: take moskau, only 3 apc and 1 soviet infantry were defending, russian resistance seems to be broken
iran takes bagdad and basra
oct 67: peace all over the world. the capitalist side has the upper hand now, except in vietnam where the commies seem to raise hell. iran takes damascus and thus conquers 3 arabian cities.
greece conquered karachi / afghanistan o_O, afghanistan has 3 cities left seems to be on the brink of destruction.
nov 67: advanced carriers -> advanced artillery tactics (in 8 turns)
feb 68: i demand coal from russia and ... they give in. but anyways it is tempting to let loose my tank armies stationed in moscow.
-> declare war on soviets, raze yarosavl, retake kopenhagen
mar 68: gorkij taken

the game seems to be quite won at this point, the soviets cant threaten me and my allies havent even attacked yet... my cities produce ~ 1 leo tank / round, which is enough to keep the soviets down and take their cities. dont know what to expect from china though, will continue to play this game to see what china is doing. india seems to grow quite powerful while conquering afghan cities. the scandiavians are now 3rd in population / 4th in manufactured goods and 6th in GNP, the powerhouse of my industry is oslo with 135 shields (= 1 leopard tank every 3 turns). the turn times have not increased since the wars have been decimating units all over the world, but i assume that the only countries really engaged in fighting are the continental european, asian and african ones , never seen a city been conquered in america or australia. spain seems to be the most helpful ally, they took several cities and keep attacking with leopard tanks, germany has 2 cities left and almost no military left, france has only those cheap, light tanks that die against all units , so they arent really a help, although they managed to conquer amsterdam. (i wanted to have that city for its rich weed resources ) britain is not involved in any battles ... the soviet fleet is dead so there is nothing to do for them. never seen a US unit in action in this scenario, maybe give them more units in europe. air battles have ceased since the first two wars, almost no planes left and no one produces new ones.
I have to admit i am positively surprised by the leap in quality this scenario has made since version 1.2, at which point i found it fairly unbalanced. though some minor tweaks will surely be necessary this version plays quite well. the leopard tank is surely a gamebreaker for western europe since nothing matches its power til the 70s.

below you can see the decisive moment when west german soviet occupation foces were disconnected from mainland which caused them to collapse under the constant attacks.

 

[warmwaffles]

Well I think also that the reason why you didn't see the US in this is because they can't get there units there fast enough in your scenario, but they do bomb there targets with the B-52. But when I play as W Germany I see america's units all over the place.

Way to combat this:
1. More production to America
2. All of there tank units can Airlift
3. All of the mech units can air lift
4. Or get a herculies aircraft have a transport capacity of 6 foot units and can move 20 turns to allow it to get to europe and hawai.
5. Or get the herculies and it is imobile and has a transport cap of 6 foot units and can rebase with those units in it

I like ideas 1 and 5 how bout you El Justo

 

[Oi!tschland]

yeah youre right, they (US) bomb occassionaly, and when they do its an easy job to finish up. unfortunately they dont bombard very often . maybe give them a small city near lissabon with autoproduce wonder or something like that, it may not be historically accurate but it sure adds some fun for US player and brings US units into battle in europe. also bad that scandinavia isnt a nuclear power i wanted to test the nuke , well i think my next game will be a kickass nuke-nation

 

[warmwaffles]

what do you think of the transportation idea

 

[Oi!tschland]

since i am no modder i wouldnt know if the AI is smart enough to use it, so i cant really tell if its a good idea if it works it would be good , im just a dedicated civ fanatic

 

[IXIRandyIXI]

Is there an updated version of this scenario that I'm missing somewhere? I have version 1.2 that's linked to on the first post in this thread. I keep reading about Spain & Portugal and the Lowlands & W Germany being combined, city improvements being added from the start, etc... but none of that is present in my version. Were these ideas tossed and the game still had Portugal and the Lowlands as separate countries, and all cities start with no improvements?

 

[cassa61]

You have to PM El Justo to get the newest version

 

[El Justo]

superb scenario and l love the level of detail on all the units and the civilepia, just one thing, is there anyway to stop everyone kicking the deleted out of each other. I was opn turn 22 happily devoloping the USSR's infastructure and then the UK capture sLeningrad forcing all my allies to Declare war on them, and now 3 turns later a world war is raging on (which i am unprepared for as i have been improving my economy rather than military)


The difficultiy level i am on is monarch and i lowered the aggression levels to none, but still the bastards kick off. I can appreciate the merit of locked alliances to avoid silly little wars but this seems to result in a world war instead and to be honest i dont really like having many wars. Any suggestions anyone or edit fixes i could try??

Zalcron,

thanks for the nice remarks...

as for the locked alliances...well, at this point, we had to make 2 and only 2 and throw every civ into one of them (capitalist or commie).

it pains me to have to have done this but i'm considering releasing a version that has marginal alliances; ie NATO only, Warsaw Pact only, etc. it'd make it a bit more interesting but also would result in some weird wars.

however, variety is the spice of life.

 

[El Justo]

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), they have a tendancy to be pretty short because two countries in each alliance make peace someplace and that forces pretty much everyone to make peace or the country that breaks that peace (IE, the human) finds pretty much the whole world mad at him, even his allies.

yes, this is important...i have noticed that if you PO your allies by continually breaking the peace, they want no part of you; specifically if you have an airbase (as the US) on their soil. of course, you can 'pay them off' but the human player may run into some ROP issues if they are 'sneaky'

 

[El Justo]

Oi!tschland,

excellent report!

bagdad is retaken by arabs

this is good to see b/c i worried that the Arabs are 'overpowered' by their Israeli neighbors.

im able to build the first types of mech inf now, but see no need for that since leo has most defense of all units PLUS best offense at that time, the price difference is fairly low for that big difference in effectiveness, maybe make apc cheaper to encourage constructing...

this is something i had thought of also; at least as far as AI build ques are concerned. we'll have to look into this issue.

assault on leningrad spawns great leader -> leo army

now you can build the "Military Academy" small wonder which allows you to 'build' Corps (army) units. this could be another game-breaker w/ the strength of army units...

central africa takes algiers from italy

this is a first! i've never seen the C Africans take anything but a beatin'

 

[El Justo]

Oi!tschland,

another round of great reports!

the turn times have not increased

the best news yet!

although they managed to conquer amsterdam. (i wanted to have that city for its rich weed resources )

i'd probably be inclined to do the same!

britain is not involved in any battles

not good news...i'd like to see the UK more active

air battles have ceased since the first two wars, almost no planes left and no one produces new ones.

also not very good news. i'm wondering why...also, how were the first rounds of naval warfare? anti-sub warfare?

I have to admit i am positively surprised by the leap in quality this scenario has made since version 1.2, at which point i found it fairly unbalanced. though some minor tweaks will surely be necessary this version plays quite well. the leopard tank is surely a gamebreaker for western europe since nothing matches its power til the 70s.

the air units were the ones we polished in the version you've been playing. the ground (mbts, mech inf & foot) units were reviewed again right after i sent out the last update.

 

[El Justo]

Well I think also that the reason why you didn't see the US in this is because they can't get there units there fast enough in your scenario, but they do bomb there targets with the B-52. But when I play as W Germany I see america's units all over the place.

Way to combat this:
1. More production to America
2. All of there tank units can Airlift
3. All of the mech units can air lift
4. Or get a herculies aircraft have a transport capacity of 6 foot units and can move 20 turns to allow it to get to europe and hawai.
5. Or get the herculies and it is imobile and has a transport cap of 6 foot units and can rebase with those units in it

I like ideas 1 and 5 how bout you El Justo

the US has plenty of production

it may be a game-breaker if we allow mech units to be airlifted

i thought of a C-130 type transport aircraft but decided against it b/c of the imbalance it could bring

 

[El Justo]

Is there an updated version of this scenario that I'm missing somewhere? I have version 1.2 that's linked to on the first post in this thread. I keep reading about Spain & Portugal and the Lowlands & W Germany being combined, city improvements being added from the start, etc... but none of that is present in my version. Were these ideas tossed and the game still had Portugal and the Lowlands as separate countries, and all cities start with no improvements?

IXIRandyIXI
the most recent reports you've read are from an 'unreleased' update version. i'd be happy to send them to you via email if you'd like. PM me an email address if you want to try it.

also, i have the latest 'tweaked' version ready for testing if anyone wants to give it a whirl...it has the edited mech unit adjustments + 1 new unit (AMX32 mbt).

 

[cassa61]

Another small problem El Justo, the utility helicopter lacks the range to reach Antananarivo from Perth, and it can't be rebased to a collosus class carrier. Once again, is this by design or do I have to load them onto a transport before moving out of port? Nope, no load option