The Conquest Training Game

[FriendlyFire]

I vote to place it at 6. In order to road the lux up.

Once we decided where the second city goes. Lets continue the game.
Also Iam betting the land were on is at least 4x times the size we have uncovered. This is a guess from the lenght of the river so far revealed. None the I'll less go with majority rule for RPS stratergy. Iam just suprised at how close the placement of cities are. (I think once we reveal more of the map this could change). And nothing says we cant change our stratergy.


it would be nice to see a AA war being succesfully executed.
(And being a TRAINING game. Means that we can reload freely. We can divert a few days to playing a scenario to test out some combat tactics.)

 

[Berrern]

Hmmm it seems as there's a lot of different opinions about where we should found the second city, but we should wait with that decision until the Settler is ready, and more map is revealed.

The only thing that bothers me is that we can't scout the south unless we build another Warrior first, and I have a suspicion that some good stuff are hidden down there.

I've had a closer look at Beijing, and here's my conclusion:
When Beijing grows to size two (in 1 turn), the city will produce 2 food and 5 shields per turn. It looks like we have 3 shields generated already, and the next turn we'll have 6 shields.
Now this means that Beijing will grow from size 2 to 3 (and be able to produce a Settler) in 10 turns, while a Settler will be produced in 5 turns - which means that we have to build something other than a Settler first. When shields starts at zero again, it'll take 6 turns to build a Settler (6x5 = 30), in other words we have 5 turns to produce something else. With the 6 shields we'll have in stock after the city grows, that means we'll have a total of 31 shields to build something else. How should these 31 shields be distributed? IMO we should build 2 Warriors; the first one to be fortified in Beijing (so we'll only have to use luxury tax for 1 turn) - while the second should stroll south.

As for the Granary issue; I think it's pointless to build a Granary now, as we dont have time to irrigate the necessary squares before the Granary completes.

What do you think?

PS: Please tell me if my calculations are wrong - however I've looked through it several times and I think it's correct.

 

[Email10]

I've had a closer look at Beijing, and here's my conclusion:
When Beijing grows to size two (in 1 turn), the city will produce 2 food and 5 shields per turn. It looks like we have 3 shields generated already, and the next turn we'll have 6 shields.

Acutally when a town grows you get the benefit of the extra tile that is automatically assigned (if you have governor assigned to emphasize production you usually get the one with the most shields) so in this case you will get 5 shields already next turn and therefore have 8 shields invested in your settler.

 

[Mauer]

@ Ainwood: Reloads on a training game? Could this be possible.
I KNOW IT'S WRONG FOR GOTM! But can we do it here for training purposes?

I agree that the plots might be a little close for me. But consider this comment by the vampire, I mean AlanH:

RCP doesn't tell you what radius to build at, only that building in circles is a good thing. Some of my most productive RCP configs (including a very dense gotm30 on a small starting island) have been at radius 3-3.5 and 7-7.5.

The land mass could very well be 4 times the size of what we see, but you have to remember that there are 7 other civs on it at emperor level. exploration is nice, tech research is fine, but go back and read all of the vet post in spoiler 1. It is all land grab, land grab, land grab. and balancing the ability to defend it when you meet a hostile. So maybe we should consider warrior for MP when we get city growth, settler, worker/warrior. This should fall in line with Berrern's last post. Except the south exploration would be put off a few turns.

 

[Mauer]

Off the subject question, how do you take screenshots?

 

[mabellino]

Easiest way to take a screen shot is to have paint or similar (eg paintshop pro) open at the same time as civ. When you have the image you want to copy press "print screen" (usually located above the Insert key) and then press "alt" + "tab" to open the paint program. Then press "ctrl" + "v" to paste the image and you can edit it as normal using your drawing program. It usually helps to resize images to 600pixels wide then people don't need to scroll to see the whole image.
Above instructions are for windows pc's. AlanH can help if it's a Mac issue!

 

[ainwood]

Firstly re reloads: NO!

I have no problem with (for example) people replaying sections of the game, but for 'our' overall game, please make it no reloads. For example: If someone plays turns 40 to 50, I don't mind someone else getting the save from turn 40 and playing the turns differently => this can be good learning. However, if we discuss things properly, then we shouldn't need to reload. I certainly don't want to see reloading for bad combat results! The key aspect of a training game is that mistakes happen, random events happen. I want you to see that a couple of really bad results don't ruin a game!

OK -> About this settler thing: Again, good analysis. Yes, we will get extra shields assigned with the citizen next turn, so we should have 8 shields next turn. Note something that I learnt yesterday (from our resident staff super-guru Aeson): When you get a citizen added on the same turn as a culture expansion, you get the citizen added, the extra shields, and then if happiness is a problem, then the governer takes over and makes that citizen an entertainer (even if the governer is turned off :crazyeyes: ) So don't be surprised to see an entertainer in Beijing next turn: We'll have to remember to put him to work, and adjust luxuries.

Re the Granary: Don't completely discount that idea. Whilst we won't have fresh water and irrigated tiles, we still get the benefit of the granary. Instead of a settler every four turns, we can probably make a warrior / settler combo every six or seven (haven't checked the specifics yet).

 

[AlanH]

AlanH can help if it's a Mac issue!

Grumble grumble! I was still sleeping off that overdose of O RH+. It was definitely cut with liberal doses of of something that should be illegal.

OK, screenies on a Mac? Apple-Shift-3 creates a screenshot file on the desktop called Picture N, where N is the number of screenshots you have created. Then if you are running OS 10.3.x you can open and crop and scale that file in Preview. Preview will also open the file in previous OS X versions, but I don't think you could adjust size and scale before Panther/10.3.

Photoshop (Elements or full) or GraphicsConverter will also open teh file and let you play, allowing you to paint overlay info onto the image as well, and they will work in most any version of the OS. But they are not free.

Now, back to ....

 

[Mauer]

Well, you guys made me buy vanilla today. $14.99 at Wal-Mart. ok, I think Berrern has the save, but not sure. If you can post a save and or screen shot, I would be happy to pick it up from there.

 

[Berrern]

Nice Mauer
I don't have the file, but it's located here.

Thanks Email, I didn't know that. This means that we'll have a total of 33 shields we can use before we start building a Settler. Nobody's protested against building a Warrior for Military Police, so that should be the first thing we do. Because of some waste, we'll have 20 more shields to distribute before Settler building begins - what should we spend them on? A Granary costs 60..

We also need to agree on where to found our next city

 

[Detlef Richter]

Thats right berrern. I see that all of us think about the same direction, streight to the river. But on which tile??
I think we need some help from our coach. Ainwood, what do you think is the better location for our second city? We have 3 tiles NW, 4 tiles NW and tile number 6 near the river.
About build order, we should build another warrior for sending it to the S and then to protect the second city.
And the worker can build roads to the river and than irrigate back.
By the way, whats our roster? Who plays next?

 

[Berrern]

I think we should build the city on spot #1.

By the way, whats our roster? Who plays next?

Mauer wanted to play now, so I guess he's next

 

[FriendlyFire]

Firstly re reloads: NO!

What I had in mind was "What If" we did this for 30 Turns
That way we can explore different options. None theless I wont reload.

Is it Ok If I play a simutanious ALTERNATE strategy. I always make sure I'll be behind the training game. ????

Oh EVEN BETTER why not run Two Training games Same map side by side ???
We can use different plays on both and see how they work.

you can aways do this for the next Training session

 

[Mauer]

OK guys, this is what I did in a whopping 2 turns.
3550 picked up the save and changed pyramid to warrior.

3500 -City expansion
-Just as our talented moderator said a citizen turned into an entertainer
I put Him on the other forest/game and changed research to 80% and
entertainment to 20% to keep em happy.
-Wines are to our SE just outside the border.
-We see another civ border due north of our capital

3450 -Warrior built and pop growth in 9 turns. 6 turns for a settler, 2 for a
worker and 4 for a barracks. Chose barracks since we have a civ
fairly close
-Meet Babylon and they are pretty anoyyed with us for some reason
or another
-They have Bronze and ceremonial burial

Alright, I stopped here to update everybody, and since this isn't just my game thought I should take suggestions and comments from all. So let'er rip.

Sorry I couldn't figure out how to put the picture in with the text.

 

[Mauer]

Oh yeah, almost forgot. He will give bronze and 20g for masonry and warrior code.

Nevermind, just realized it was in one of the images I uploaded.

 

[ainwood]

I will post more detailed thoughts later. But firstly: They have a warrior for sale. How much?

Secondly, re where should the second city go? The best advice is to not look at just where the second city will go, but to look at where all your first 5 to 6 cities will go!

Babylon is 'annoyed' becase they always start 'annoyed' in emperor level. A single trade shoudl fixt that though. Babylon are very close, and they are a moderately aggressive civ, so an early war could be our best defence. However: You don't go to war with only one city! I stronly suggest we go for three or four ICS cities.

As I said, more analysis later (but good on you for taking by the scruff and getting on with it Mauer - otherwise we weren't getting far! But the info you've uncovered is invaluable. We know where babylon (the city) is, so we can start planning.

 

[ainwood]

^^ Make that 'worker' for sale!

Buying workers early in the game is a great move, because it is a great investment, and can seriously hamper the AI. I sugget we snap it up!

Despite the fact that we don't have a whole lot of room, I still recommend getting a granary built. Even without water, it saves us 20 food / settler => not to be sniffed at! All water does is increase the speed at which we can produce a settler. It should be a priority, but if it takes a few turns, then it takes a few turns. The Bab worker will help, too.

Note that if we build a settler now, we will drop back to size 1, and have to build back up again.

I think that a granary is best, followed by a tight-build (RCP 3, possibly), with second through 5th cities building units for attacking the babs.

I'm running a bit short on time this weekend (GOTM due on the 1st, have stuff to do around home), so I probably won't have time to put any numbers together. But if someone feels so inclined, it would be a good exercise to see (roughly) how long it takes to get 4 settler, comparing a granary in Beijing now with a settler now.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I agree with Babylon this close our priorities are now shifted to Grabbing as much land as possible.

We'll need at least settlers to cut babylon off and helm them in. With that being quite far away where do we drop our first setter ?

- We set it up close as before ? (Location 6 - spices + river)
- Set it up in the center as the start of our wall ?
- Select locations where Resources are / guess will be ?
- RPS ?
- Swordsmans and Horsemen ?
- Expand via galley ?

I'd like to take a step back and allow you to choose since I had correctly guess where the First civilization would be (North) But not the land size. I would like to see a different stratergy be played out. (As I would alway start to wall of the AI. Which isnt aways the right choice)

 

[Mauer]

Ok, I picked up a few more turns, and this is where we stand.
3450-traded masonry and warrior code to Babylon for bronze, worker and 18g. Adding in the worker only took 2g away from what they initially offered. Good thinking Boss I moved the worker to begin road/mine of the BG. And at the prompting of our fearless leader changed barracks back to granary prebuild.
3400-Was able to change research back to 100% giving us pottery in 3 instead of 5 turns. Both citizens content.
3350-Worker on forest/game finished roading and moved him NW to begin irrigate. Was this right? Can't remember if this is what we decided. Yeah, I know read the posts. But scrolling screens is really really hard.
Found a goody hut right by the river, but was scared to pup it cause the worker was right there. Calm down, it's not going anywhere.
3300-Notta
3250-Pottery is discovered. Switch to granary (9 turns)
I stopped here, because we never really decided what the next tech would be.
Our choices: IW in 36, Alphabet in 30, Wheel in 24, and CB in 11
Do you want me to post a save now? Wait for further discussion? Or sit here and twiddle my thumbs.

 

[Mauer]

Tell you what, cause I have to work tomorrow and it is Friday night/Saturday morning, I'll go ahead and attach the save. I have to work so maybe somebody else will give it a go.
Does anybody else think that is the greatest smiley ever?