The Conquest Training Game

[ainwood]

Nice write up on MM.

MM in the begining pays off big.
Note For most players it should be autpmatic but for us noobs it requires planning and a lot of thinking.
Note that many of the best players on MM there most important cities.

That's a nice summary. If you think of the game as an investment account, then anything extra that you save in the first few turns grows with interest as the game progresses.

And (for the economists among you), micromanagement is sort-of like the 'low hanging fruit' principle. Spend your time MMing the areas where you can get the biggest gains (the 'important' cities). There is little point in micromanaging a competely corrupt city!


@M-B: Nice little skirmish! I was just thinking about a write-up on the going to war, concentrating on ensuring that you make it decisive. My gut-feeling was that we didn't have enough units (read: horses) for a decisive conquest, but you demonstrated the other option: A short focused skirmish attack with a defined purpose.

I'll write a comparison soon.

 

[mad-bax]

In my turnlog I should have pointed out that there were not enough troops for the concerted militaristic expansion phase. However, since land was in such short supply, taking out Ur and Ellipi allows a ring at RCP 6 to be constructed. The point being that (for me) I cannot permit expansion to be halted at any point from turn 1. Whatever victory condition I go for, the domination limit is always a stop on the way.

 

[Detlef Richter]

OK, here is our actual roster:

1 Mauer
2 Detlef just played
3 FriendlyFire playing
4 mabellino on deck
5 Berrern

 

[Detlef Richter]

Hmm, nothing happens here.

What about FriendlyFire, is he still a member of our TDG. If not, we should go on with mabellino. Our last few turns are gone good and fast, so we shouldn't stop with this. Ainwood and Mad-Bax had spend much time for us.

 

[dshea_32665]

I have enjoyed lurking on this thread and by the number of views this thread has had, it is obviously something people are interested in and think is of great value.

If the lack of play is getting too frustrating to the point where this thread might be dropped, perhaps the format could change in that Ainwood, Mad Bax or other guru could play all of the turns. 10 turns could be played, people could contribute on what should be done next over a 24 hour period or other defined time period, the moderaor would then comment to the trainees suggestions as is being done now, and then the moderator could go ahead and play the 10 turns.

If people want to actually play along, the saves could be posted and people could keep up with the game that way. Just an idea.

dshea_32665

 

[FriendlyFire]

Wheres the Sav guys ???

How come I can only see pic attachments ???

--------

Been crazy busy here. Just did a 12hr CPD training conference. Then did another 10hrs work. End of finiscal year was squeezed in today, somehow we managed.

 

[ainwood]

The save is attached to this post

 

[mabellino]

Nice turns MB! I would never dare go to war with so few units, always terrified of making a mistake!

I'll be away this weekend but can play my turns on Fri or Monday depending on when FF finishes his turns.

One question? have the Babs finished the pyramids yet? In Mad-Bax's turns they started on the Oracle, did that mean the pyramids were snagged by another civ?

 

[mad-bax]

In my set Babylon completed the pyramids and then started the Oracle in their only productive city. All their other cities had been whipped down to pop1 and were worthless.

 

[Detlef Richter]

@mabellino:
at my turns, 3 wonders are build by the AI's
Babylon -> Pyramids
German -> Oracle
Rome -> Colossus
and no one switched to onother wonder.

 

[Detlef Richter]

6 days after my turn and nothing happens!!
Whats going on with you guys??
We've sayed 24 hours to say "got it" and another 48 hours to play.
It's ok if someone can't play his turns, but i think it's not too difficult to say "sorry, i can't play" and the next one on the roster takes it.

 

[ainwood]

Agreed. Guys: If you can't play in your designated slot, then please tell us.

 

[ainwood]

The turns played by Mad-Bax were so completely different from those played by Detlef Richter that a direct comparison seems fairly pointless.MB went to war, so it seems to be a good time to give an intro into this topic.

Why is war important?
Unless you are going for a OCC or 5CC victory, if you want to go for maximum score, there is one over-riding objective: Get to the domination limit as quickly as possible. It is simply not possible to achieve this by peaceful means.

So I build some units and charge, do I?
NO! War requires a lot of planning. Lets look at a few central concepts.

1. The Objective.
   Before going to war, you need to have decided on a clear aim that you want to achieve. Once you know what it is, you can decide on th 'how'. There can be many objectives, ranging from total annilation of another civ, to taking enough cities to extort some techs. You might just want to capture some workers to stunt growth, capture a key strategic resource or luxury (either to deny the AI or because you need it). You might just want to hit-and-run to weaken them. There might even diplomatic reasons (to force an MPP to kick-in to stop them trading with a third-party).
   
   In our game, the objective is to gain land. There are many different degrees with which this can be pursued. MB skirmished to gain a couple of key cities (and is marching for the pyramids); the options then range to total destruction or leaving a single city or so.
   
2. The Plan
   Once you have your objective, how are you going to achieve it? Very few wars are opportunistic (although these have their place). Most are well-planned. The planning bit is the most critical. You need to assess what your technology level is and will be in the future, to determine the units available to you. You need to look at the resources you have at your disposal. You need to determine how many units you will need, and what type they should be. And most importantly, you need to look at what the AI is doing.
   
   In our game, we recognised early-on that we were hemmed-in, and that we need to go to war. The discovery of the wheel showed that we have horses in our territory, and therefore the decision was made to go with horsemen. In looking at the AI, the decision was supported by noting that we are to fight Babylon. They will be using bowmen for attack (slow, one movement point) and spearman for defence (slow, 2 defence points). Our horsemen will stand a very good chance against them.
   
3. The preparation
   One key mistake that I used to make frequently were lack of focus on what I was doing. Instead of devoting my production to preparing for war, I might build a temple, or a library; worker or harbour. That the AI gets distrated is one of its key weaknesses that we can exploit. How many times have you seen an AI that is in the middle of an all-out war start to waste a lot of shields on a wonder? The key is focus.
   
   In our game, we decided to keep Beijing working on settlers, and have the other cities straight into war preparations. They built barracks first (ignoring retreating, a vet horseman will beat a regular spearman about 60% of the time; regular v regular means < 50% of the time we will win!), and then horsemen. But there were a few distractions: A couple of spearman.
   
   Were these spearman needed? If you consider the civ we were up against, they are most likely to attack with bowmen. Bowmen are moderate attackers, so even with spearman as our defenders, we have a 50:50 chance of winning. The key with bowman is that they have poor defence: to attack us they need to move into our city boundaris, so we can hit-and-run with horsemen - to the extent that they will never even get the chance to attack!
   
   Further to the preparation, it is key not to wait too long. Plans need to be flexible. If you wait too long, you may find your horsemen up against pikemen. If you have rome near-by, you might want to get in quick before they have hooked-up iron.
   
4. The opportunity
   Further to good preparation is taking the right action at the right time, and Mad-Bax's example is an excellent one.
   
   Babylon is by far the most productive city for the Babylonians (you can estimate this by looking at the size and the terrain). It was building the pyramids, and hence it was NOT BUILDING UNITS. The nature of the AI is to expand whilst there is space available, so it is likely that at least one other city is building a settler. Others are probably building temples (babylon favour culture). In short, they were not capable of defending themselves.
   
   Once the pyramids are completed, Babylon will have a lot more shields / turn going towards units (probably). It was a good decision for MB to attack. He recognised that he didn;t have enough units for a decisive victory, but to snare a couple of towns, and perhaps even the pyramids is enough to cripple the Babs. In addition, it frees-up a bit of space for our expansion, which can be used whilst we prepare for part-two of the war.

I hope that's given you a few ideas on war preparations. Its more of a ramble than a specific strategy, but it might get you to adjust your war planning somewhat. Later, we'll discuss the finer points of the execution of the attack.

 

[FriendlyFire]

thanks I'll post the results in a few hrs. Gotta eat dinner first

 

[ainwood]

thanks I'll post the results in a few hrs. Gotta eat dinner first

Did you get it played?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Sorry bout that.

Here I go.

mad-bax had troops heading toward Bablyon for a "pre-emptive" strike iam tempted to declare war this turn to save on the Diplomacy hit. Decided to wait till next turn.

Only tech I can trade is Maths to French for 4 gold. (Did so since all other civis have maths. Tell me if this is a BAD move)

WAIT.

this isnt right.
The save game I have DOSNT MATCH the last screen shot posted by mad-bax. Iam guessing He saved / posted the wrong game.

My save game shows Ellipi and Ur still owned by the Bablyonians and we are still at peace. Instead of Ellipi razed and Ur in our hands.

ATTENTION
I have downloaded the save game (3) three times and restarted my PC it appears the save game is definitely incorrect.
/

 

[Detlef Richter]

@ FriendlyFire: What you see is correct.
Mad-Bax plays the last save parallel to our game. So we can see how a perfect player plays
If you want to see the last screenshot, you have to go back a few posts, to my last description.

 

[mad-bax]

I am not posting my saves. This is to prevent the wrong save being used. If anyone wants my save then I will send it to them through a PM.

Fortunately I don't have to be perfect

 

[FriendlyFire]

I missed one page of the threads somehow no wonder.

Detledf thinks we should attack in the next two turns. Which will give us an additional horse. Xinjain is looking vunreable with only the single archer there. My prefered tactic here is killing off the bab archers 2.2 and nabing a worker prior to an attack on Ur

1150 BC
Iam assume Def gave away our "territorial map" to buy time with Greece.
In order to cement there neutrality I traded away World map for 19 gold. (max gold greece had)
Then Aztecs - 18gold
Then Rome - TMap - 6 Gold

Decide not to trade with France. Maths for 5 gold seems far to little. Can wait a few turns first.

Horsemen moved to hills to mirror movement of bab archers. This will mean an additional turn delay for taking Ur


1125 BC
Damm Bab Archers moved again they split up. Realised mistake was trying to defend Xinjian instead have wasted two turns.
To late to trade away Maths to French.
Chendun settled as per planned.
MM Bejin
Move troops directly in position to attack Ur and Ellpi. (Confusion over wether to declare war at the end of my turn ? or begining of next ?)
Declare war on Bablyon

1110 BC
Vet Horeman vs Archer on plains = win

Ellipi - Vet Horse vs Spear = retreat no damage
Ellipi - Vet Horse vs Spear = win - Elite - 1 damage
Ellipi - Horse vs spear = win - Vetern
Ellipi - razed 1 gold

Ur - Vet Horse vs spear = retreat 1 damage
Ur - Vet Horse vs spear = 2 damage - lose
Ur - Vet Horse vs Archer = Win - 2 damage
Ur - Horse vs Spear = Win
Ur - has 1 Spearmen left. half health - Grrrr

1075 BC
Ur still size 2 did they manage to build another defender ? bab Archer has moved back down can strike at it, Is a threat to Xinjain. Will play out combat and decide.

Ur - Horse vs Spear = lose - 2 damage
Ur - vet horse vs spear = win - elite (< Two different stacks)
Ur - captured - 1 gold - 1 worker

Archer vs bab Archer - plains = win - Vetern

We now have two Lux - 100% tax this turn
MM bejin - Settler next turn - make two tax collectors

Bablyons archer approcahing from bablyon. refuses to diplomacy.
We have six Horsemen in Ur. (1 turn suppression) Plan to wipe out as many of Bablyons army before a march onto there capitol.


1050 BC
Canton - horsemen - moves into Ur
Bejin - settler - moves towards rps placement position
Road to IRON completed - set building mine
Three (3) bab archers now visible on a nearby hill. Realise that Horse cannot retreat if attacking across rivers. Tough situation here. Plan to have them attack my horse stack.

Units rest


1025 BC
Shanghai - horse
bab archers move directly to attack Ur - in Forest across river. Dammm no easy choices here. Check forest give 25% def bonus

ah Bablyons willing to talk.
Can get Akkard and 23 gold for peace. (That means 20 turns of peace. Else we take a big dip hit. Crap NO techs avalaible, we are roughly 2 techs behind)

Stop here as I need some advice.
> Take the deal and then backstab the Bablyons depsite the hefty Dipolmatic hit.
> Risk attacking across river and plan on taking the captiol before making peace
> retreat from Ur then hit the bablyon archers on the plain and advance to the captiol. (we lose a lux, can divert the settler to rebuild here)

 

[Tarkeel]

> Take the deal and then backstab the Bablyons depsite the hefty Dipolmatic hit.

Or, take the deal, build up troops for 20 turns, and hit him when it expires. If he's still on pyramids, he won't be building troops, and he'll have a wonder for you!