The Dismantling of Confederate Remnants Continues

[Lexicus]

You realize the links you posted actually define the term completely differently from how you're using it?

 

[Farm Boy]

Do tell.

 

[Lexicus]

The wiki article is about a theory or methodological approach in anthropology, history, etc. that says culture is the most important determinant of human behavior. That's also what the dictionary definition says. It has little if anything to do with supremacism of any kind.

 

[Farm Boy]

The insult only pertained to the suffix. The fidelity that's exhausting is teasing out the Ists...

Supremacism is the worldview that a particular age, race, species, ethnicity, religion, gender, social class, ideology, nation, or culture is superior to other variations of that trait, and advocates those who identify with it to dominate, control, and subjugate those who do not.[1]

... from everyone else that views their world through thier culture. Which is everyone. The paticular ones that have managed to maintain their white supremecist roots while flying the flag of Frack Off are usually pretty easy to spot.

 

[Lexicus]

You've lost me

 

[demiurgenext]

Regardless of our etymological discussions, the final monument in New Orleans is coming down now:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/19/us/new-orleans-confederate-monuments/

There's also positive action happening in Saint Louis and Charlottesville on bringing down local monuments there.

My personal take is I'm fine with these statues at historical sites. But not in the heart of our cities for propaganda sake. Gettysburg, Antietam, Manassas, Shiloh? Great place for them, on the battlefields themselves.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I was thinking that the "Liberty Monument" from New Orleans could be part of an exhibit for a place like one of the Smithsonian museums, with a plaque explaining what the monument was intended to honor. As much of a history nerd as I am, I had never heard of the Battle of Liberty Place before the monument was taken down the other week. (The monument is named for the site of the battle - it is emphatically not a monument to liberty. Quite the opposite.)

 

[demiurgenext]

Agreed - and some of them are absolutely beautiful, and have merit as artistic works outside their historical merits.

Of course, IMO most of the ones that are in the public areas of cities have no historical merit in of themselves. It's just spamming neo-confederate propaganda.

Still, I'd love to see something like Confederate Gardens - put these in a garden area with historical notations of where they came from, and what their intent was. It would be majestic. Pay for entrance, and the various historical societies could spend their money on upkeep.

But the confederate symbology wouldn't be forced on people who have nothing but loathing for what these men stood for.

 

[Farm Boy]

But not in the heart of our cities for propaganda sake. Gettysburg, Antietam, Manassas, Shiloh? Great place for them, on the battlefields themselves.

That would be great indeed, if we could keep all the BS propaganda penned up where it comes from. Not sure what we'd do with the thunderous silence.

 

[Naskra]

This purge of the monuments is impetuous vandalism. The Liberty Place monument marked where the Beauregard faction of N. Orleans politics took a beating - Gen. Beauregard, the radical civil rights activist who proposed Negro voting, school integration, full equality, and other horrors of emancipation. A later generation forgave (or forgot) him and put up a statue; now he and his horse are again villains; they have done nothing for the past century beyond offering a welcome resting spot for pigeons. Bronze statues don't come cheap and a topless plinth does not make the world a better place.

 

[Lexicus]

This purge of the monuments is impetuous vandalism.

Putting them up in the first place was vandalism tbh

 

[Naskra]

I lived many years in New Orleans. My hands have touched the monuments; I was not privileged or enwhitened by the act. I saw People of Blackness walk right by them without injury. The only racial impact of the Liberty Monument I could discern was that it was a popular puking point for white boys at Mardi Gras. My objection to their removal is only that the offense they radiate will simply find a new center of emanation once they are gone. There is no foreseeable end to the game of Whack-a-Racist, so why not just stop now? You can't lose if you don't play.

Putting them up in the first place was vandalism tbh

For me, the past is a place where people lived; for some others, the past is just another domain in which to exercise moral certitude.

 

[Evie]

And for yet others, the past is a source of wounds never fully healed.

 

[Lexicus]

I saw People of Blackness walk right by them without injury.

You can read minds?

There is no foreseeable end to the game of Whack-a-Racist,

If you think about it, there really shouldn't be, either. I hope we never stop progressing. I hope when I'm fifty young people are still pushing the envelope.

For me, the past is a place where people lived; for some others, the past is just another domain in which to exercise moral certitude.

For me the past is so much more than either of these things.

 

[mrt144]

You can read minds?



If you think about it, there really shouldn't be, either. I hope we never stop progressing. I hope when I'm fifty young people are still pushing the envelope.



For me the past is so much more than either of these things.

This is hopefully the difference between Baby Boomers and everyone after them.

 

[jackelgull]

For me, the past is a place where people lived; for some others, the past is just another domain in which to exercise moral certitude.

And for others it is a shield for present day propaganda, untouchable under the excuse of nostalgia

 

[Lexicus]

As William Faulkner said, the past is present. I have always felt the weight of the past, and of the obligations it lays on us to do better than those who came before us.

 

[Lexicus]

Well, not always. But certainly since, oh, I dunno, my late teens, when I began to study history more seriously than I had before.

 

[Naskra]

You can read minds?

No need for mind-reading. It's just a crappy little obelisk - no magic powers. And them N'awlins darkies are tougher than you think.

Moderator Action: I know you're being facetious, but it is still against the rules to use racial slurs even in a non-serious context. - Bootstoots
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Commodore]

You've lost me

I think his point is that everyone is a supremacist to some degree since everyone believes that whatever they believe is the right way and everything else is wrong. They wouldn't believe it otherwise.