the dovillio

[tipwong]

I think to improve the dovillio just to give all units of them with the promotion of march, just like the barbarians.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

I like the idea, it would give them something unique, and would fit thematically. The doviello are always migrating somewhere, and there are plenty of long marches to be had (see: Civilopedia:Lucian).

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

*bump*

might be a good idea, possibly overpowered though...

 

[heisenberg]

The Doviello already has the worker > war > axe > champ on the fly upgrade feature that allows them to carry on prolonged attacks as long as they manage to capture additional workers on the way.
Not to mention that their melee units do not require the building of training yards so that their newly captured cities can begin immediately churning out their higher tiered melee units.
They aren't really in a need of additional buffs imo.

Mahala is by far my preferred leader of the Dov over Charadon, since her ingenuity synergizes with the upgrade feature giving her very easy access to additional warriors every time she captures a capital full of workers. Having march might be simply overpowered for them.

 

[Methuselah]

Perhaps giving march to the barbarian trait would be better?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think that Charadon need the Charismatic Trait.


I really think that Doviello units should be able to challenge each other to fights to the death, giving them free xp but likely killing one or even both units involved. I had a version of this spell working a while back, but I haven't gotten it working quite right after I tried to make it actually be based on combat odds.


I still think that the Doviello should be able to steal weapons promotions from defeated units too, and maybe get some yields from combat. I was going to make this a new trait, but with so many melee UUs they could all just share a common <PythonPostCombatWon> call.

 

[Bad Player]

I think some ppl complained that the Dov were too bland - are they actually underpowered (charadon maybe moreso???) or just too bland (and in need of a few fun mechanisms to play with)?

 

[Humakty]

MC is right, It's Charadon that needs some love, Mahala is fine, having raider and ingenuity. I'm not even sure Charadon needs some buffs, as he has a good early game combo, being immune to barb attacks, he can freely rush the closest poor fellah. He lacks something later on, for sure, but by that time you should hold 2 or 3 capitals. (the exact number depends on the map)

 

[DioBrando]

I think that Charadon need the Charismatic Trait.


I really think that Doviello units should be able to challenge each other to fights to the death, giving them free xp but likely killing one or even both units involved. I had a version of this spell working a while back, but I haven't gotten it working quite right after I tried to make it actually be based on combat odds.


I still think that the Doviello should be able to steal weapons promotions from defeated units too, and maybe get some yields from combat. I was going to make this a new trait, but with so many melee UUs they could all just share a common <PythonPostCombatWon> call.

Maybe a special ability for Doviello units called Mark of the *animal*, which makes the unit able to be attacked by other units of your civ, or maybe even other units with the Mark of the *animal*. Would wear of after a turn, of course. Would be nice to give it to upgraded enemy workers, would fit the lore since it could be a sort of initiation rite to weed out the weak warriors.

How hard would it be to code?

 

[Blakmane]

Both of the doviello leaders have one less trait than usual, which confuses me. It's not like they have anything else amazing enough to compensate for that.

Barbarian and ingenuity aren't full traits per se. Look at the other leaders with these traits and you will find they have 2 other traits as well.

I gave charadon charasmatic and mahala expansive, which seems to improve their performance from 'mediocre' to 'pretty good' in my games.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Charadon definitely needs Charismatic, he sucks bad compared to Mahala.

I really like the way animal totems work for them in Orbi, and MC's ida of them getting yields from combat ( scavenger trait ? ) would be cool as well.

 

[marioflag]

I think some ppl complained that the Dov were too bland - are they actually underpowered (charadon maybe moreso???) or just too bland (and in need of a few fun mechanisms to play with)?

At least from some polls Doviello seems to be the least played and among the most bland civs to play.

There was a suggestion of Xienwolf which would really make them a lot more interesting and i hope someday the FfH team could incorporate it.This suggestion was to make Doviello the opposite of Kuriotates with a lot of small settlements and the possibility to build just a fraction of the buildings.Instead of Great People, Doviello could get Great Beasts through totem.

This was a fantastic idea which was really fit for the aggressive play-style of Doviello

 

[PotatoOverdose]

I don't think the doviello need an overhaul, seeing as the real problem is charadon. With Mahala, you can use Lucian to bash barbarian brains for a few turns, then take him and a stack of beastmen and conquer your nearest neighbors (apply worldspell if needed). As others have pointed out, ingenuity has some great synergies with the doviello and raider is certainly quite nice as well.

The problem with the doviello is charadon. Charadon can't use Lucian's early strength terribly effectively because he will lack the free barb experience. Charadon doesn't have ingenuity, so his upgrade mechanics aren't nearly as effective. This effectively turns him into a weaker version of the clan, both in terms of traits and mechanics/synergies. Where the clan get warrens and improved units in the metal line, he gets a pricey upgrade mechanic.

 

[WarKirby]

I think the doviello just have a conceptual problem in general. They're the bad guys. Not even romanticised bad guys, like the vampires. Or awesome world ending evil like Sheiam/illians They're just sort of lesser evil, and for me at least, their role in the lore just sort of inspires apathy.

In any case, I do feel that giving them all march would be way too much.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

I think the barbarian trait should be a Civ trait. Mahala is still leader over a barbarian like people. That would also open up an additional slot for Charadon.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

The barbarian trait isn't always a good thing, the fact that Mahala plays better without it should demonstrate that. I like the lore behind the doviello, they certainly have their interesting pedia entries, particularly their immortal and berserker. Come to think of it, threads about the Doviello have been a recurring pattern for quite a few versions now. To be honest, I thought that when ice man was introduced, the Doviello palace could provide it. Lorewise, the doviello always thrive in the cold. They were the Mulcarn's hound dog in the age of ice. I was a little surprised when they didn't start with it, given that winter is a huge theme for them. Although I can definitely see a good reason for not providing a heavy hitting early civ with a powerful mana type.

 

[KingOfLands]

The barbarian trait isn't always a good thing, the fact that Mahala plays better without it should demonstrate that. I like the lore behind the doviello, they certainly have their interesting pedia entries, particularly their immortal and berserker. Come to think of it, threads about the Doviello have been a recurring pattern for quite a few versions now. To be honest, I thought that when ice man was introduced, the Doviello palace could provide it. Lorewise, the doviello always thrive in the cold. They were the Mulcarn's hound dog in the age of ice. I was a little surprised when they didn't start with it, given that winter is a huge theme for them. Although I can definitely see a good reason for not providing a heavy hitting early civ with a powerful mana type.

Having pretty free access to Haste and Dance of Blades is far and away nasty enough as far as Doviello casting potential goes.

I do agree that Charadon is increasingly falling behind in the "leaders you'd want to play" category; Charismatic would be a solution to a few of his problems.

 

[WarKirby]

I don't know a lot about Charadon specifically, but he doesn't seem all that charismatic to me. Wouldn't Aggressive/Raiders be a better combo ? With barbarian and winterborn as civ traits.

 

[smusebaer]

I think a mechanism to move citys would be very nice and intresting, but wouldn´t be overpowerd. And I think the barbarian traid should be lost, as soon as you are in war with the barbarian (because the barbarian times are over). Or there should be a feature for latetime use of barbarian. (like a changse to get defeated barbarian units or some free units).
And very good would be a research penalty for certain techs instead of a general 10 % penalty.

 

[Bad Player]

Could I suggest some kind of mechanic that the Doviello could have which works well with the barbarian trait (ie with Charadon). Something related to war allowing them to keep a rolling war effort.

Ideas:
* Increased gold for sacking cities.
* Barbarian units tail Doviello units which they sight and preferentially attack non-Doviello cities adjacent to Doviello units. (Thus a Doviello army gets support from barbarians who then attack any enemy city the Doviello are about to attack and get used as cannon fodder!)