the dovillio

[Thunder_Gr]

Doviello don't need anything but Charismatic for Charadon that's all. I like them more now than most other civilizations. All the suggestions made except perhaps stealing the weapon promotions would be nice gimmicks or broken (getting techs from razing/conquering).
The only thing that perhaps needs a further improvement is the World Spell, but if Charadon gets Charismatic it's enough.

I have been reading this thread for a while now and I want to ask a question.
By saying what the Doviello need, what exactly do they need it for... To become balanced, unstoppable, more fun to play? I hope there is no one here that actually thinks the Doviello are, somehow, weak, right?

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Oh no I think the general consensus is they aren't flashy enough, they're kinda boring as is. I my opinion anyways.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I like the flavour of the Doviello. I always had a soft spot for wolves, and the Doviello are practically wolves in human form. Cool.

"You're too weak. And my pack is hungry".

 

[xxhe]

Can we give Doviello unit a special promotion that will automatically destroy(and receive money) any improvement when enter enemy territory?

So beared with this promotion, Doviello units could give any civs fighting with them strong economical suffer, making Doviello act more like a barbarian tribe.

 

[Lone Wolf]

What if I don't want to destroy improvements? I'm not sure that automatical destroying of improvements will give them an advantsge.

 

[Imuratep]

I like playing them more than any other civilization. That probably means for me they are "flashy" enough. In fact I'm bored by civilizations that let me wait till they are any good and these are those that have the most stuff (That does not mean that I don't like the design behind them. I just do not like their playstyle at least in SP). Not every civilization needs to have a lot of blinky features to ensure a unique playstyle. Only the fact that they start with Luzian makes them the aggro civ par exellence. With Charadon if I meet the first opponent scout I immediately declare war on the owner to get the experience for Luzian and then raze his city. I like it when I'm constantly involved in action. Charismatic would really help this playstyle and differentiate the two leaders quite good as I play Mahala very different.
Clan also doesn't have anything unique apart from Warrens and no one is complaining (because ogres which aggro player needs them - especially the two later ones? By the time they are coming I have won the game).
@ lone wolf: If autodestroy still gives you money, there would be nothing that could help them more. When I play the doviello I don't keep very many cities about 90% are razed.

 

[civ_king]

All they really need are an extra leader trait each, because they both have 1.5 traits

 

[xxhe]

What if I don't want to destroy improvements? I'm not sure that automatical destroying of improvements will give them an advantsge.

This promotion is designed to force you to destroy improvements, making them more barbarian like
Barbarians do not know how to preserve towns. What they really want is looting, looting, looting.

 

[Lade]

I think the Doviello should recieve a civilization trait (Fierce) that gives all melee units +1 attack strength

 

[JFSebastian]

This promotion is designed to force you to destroy improvements, making them more barbarian like
Barbarians do not know how to preserve towns. What they really want is looting, looting, looting.

In my opinion this would restrict the Doviello too much. While plundering improvements is a good way to get a little quick cash, enslaving cities and forcing the population to work their fancy improvements is valid too. Why worry about researching peaceful techs like calender right away when you can just capture your neighbor's finished plantations and gain some nice early economy. Same goes for wineries, mines, cottages and even farms. Lets you sidestep a lot of economy techs in favor of cartography, mysticism and later bronze working.

Two things I would like to see are beast men not going obsolete and the ability to make wolf pens without building a carnival first. I think the leaders are fine as they are.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Doesn't the War Machine already do this?

 

[SwampCow]

* Barbarian units tail Doviello units which they sight and preferentially attack non-Doviello cities adjacent to Doviello units. (Thus a Doviello army gets support from barbarians who then attack any enemy city the Doviello are about to attack and get used as cannon fodder!)

Haha, I think this would be a great ability. Since Lucien really isn't much of a "hero", make him a Pied Piper of sorts. If he does a flyby on a barb city or settlement, he should be able to pick up stragglers and they will follow him wherever he goes. Give him a toggle. Once he toggles the "song" off, they simply start attacking and razing.

 

[Senethro]

Ok, heres a random idea. I've always wanted to see the Total XP Gained mechanic that Great Generals are generated with in BTS used in FFH. There are a couple of ways I think it could be used.

1. It could power up the Wild Hunt spell. Every time you fill the Total XP Gained meter the Wild Hunt wolves will get +1 strength. Suggested meter levels might be 50, 150, 300.

2. It could create "Loot" units in your capital. You can then use these to create Loot Pile buildings in cities that give a little gold, a little happiness, maybe +1XP. Their main benefit would be a kind of promotion theft. When enemies with metal weapons, enchanted and poison blades and other weapon promotions are killed then the next units produced in the Loot pile cities gain these weapon promotions.

 

[Iceciro]

Sidecomment - I think we should just get BTS-style XP gained Great Generals back, as there's no freaking Military specialist so I never see Great Generals.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

I like the idea of progressively stronger wolf packs, and I do think we need something to emphasize their pillage based economy.

 

[JFSebastian]

I like the idea of progressively stronger wolf packs, and I do think we need something to emphasize their pillage based economy.

Emphasizing their pillage economy sounds like a nice idea. What about removing Unit Cost and/or Unit Supply for units in Enemy Territory? Perhaps both would be too powerful. Free Unit Supply makes thematic sense, living off of enemy land. Thoughts on balance?

 

[xxhe]

Ok, heres a random idea. I've always wanted to see the Total XP Gained mechanic that Great Generals are generated with in BTS used in FFH. There are a couple of ways I think it could be used.

1. It could power up the Wild Hunt spell. Every time you fill the Total XP Gained meter the Wild Hunt wolves will get +1 strength. Suggested meter levels might be 50, 150, 300.

2. It could create "Loot" units in your capital. You can then use these to create Loot Pile buildings in cities that give a little gold, a little happiness, maybe +1XP. Their main benefit would be a kind of promotion theft. When enemies with metal weapons, enchanted and poison blades and other weapon promotions are killed then the next units produced in the Loot pile cities gain these weapon promotions.

That's really a good idea

Maybe AC could also help Wild Hunter to some extent?

 

[SwampCow]

Sidecomment - I think we should just get BTS-style XP gained Great Generals back, as there's no freaking Military specialist so I never see Great Generals.

Yeah it is crazy hard generating generals now. I feel like it's Christmas morning if one spawns for me during a game.

 

[warhawk26]

I played the doviello quite a bit roughly a year ago. I actually spent more time on them than any other race and came to the conclusion that they are a pretty mediocre civ. I want to like them, I really do, but other than Lucien, which is a nice addition, they just don't have enough going for them. My main complaint is the Barbarian trait is deeply flawed.

Unless you have Raging Barbarians turned on the Barbarous trait of Charadon doesn’t really allow you to expand any earlier than any other civ. With 3 beastmen, and an Aggressive trait, barbarians aren’t going to be a problem when it comes to expanding. Any forces you lose early are most likely going to be due to animals or hill giants. In fact, the traits Barbarous and Aggressive don’t seem to harmonize well. With Combat I your beastmen are most likely going to win fights against barbarians anyway and you are simply missing out on an opportunity to gain xp.

Add the fact that you get a hit to your beakers and its a recipe for trouble. With either of the elves I can easily gain more than double the beaker count of the doviello, even with a good starting position.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

I played the doviello quite a bit roughly a year ago. I actually spent more time on them than any other race and came to the conclusion that they are a pretty mediocre civ. I want to like them, I really do, but other than Lucien, which is a nice addition, they just don't have enough going for them. My main complaint is the Barbarian trait is deeply flawed.

Unless you have Raging Barbarians turned on the Barbarous trait of Charadon doesn’t really allow you to expand any earlier than any other civ. With 3 beastmen, and an Aggressive trait, barbarians aren’t going to be a problem when it comes to expanding. Any forces you lose early are most likely going to be due to animals or hill giants. In fact, the traits Barbarous and Aggressive don’t seem to harmonize well. With Combat I your beastmen are most likely going to win fights against barbarians anyway and you are simply missing out on an opportunity to gain xp.

Add the fact that you get a hit to your beakers and its a recipe for trouble. With either of the elves I can easily gain more than double the beaker count of the doviello, even with a good starting position.

a year ago they didn't have the ability to upgrade in the field and upgrade captured workers and slaves...