The Entire Thought Experiment

[Cam_H]

We need more feedback obviously, if we end in tie, I will decide as turn player, unless cam overrules as game maker.

Overrule? Moi?

I can't improve on 53 turns on my test 'Booker' game (although with a lot of chopping we end up getting it on Turn 55 but have added the Warrior, a Settler, and two more Workers going with AH first), so I'm happy to support astre's experiment outcome and vran's + Sengir's position and go straight for the jugular.

 

[Folket]

I have tried two games. turn 65 and 98 the GLH was built. Do we need to rush GLH so bad?

 

[vranasm]

I have tried two games. turn 65 and 98 the GLH was built. Do we need to rush GLH so bad?

well depends a bit if the AI got coastal start...

if we will miss it by 1 turn...will you sit down and think "oh my, now we lost a game"... in wonder races sometimes every turn counts...

one thing is good, the USA doesn't start with mining and the AI can regularly screw themself when choosing techs... and they don't understand the archipelago settings same way we do...

I think now Cam switched the side we are close to clear majority, but I will let some time for people to make their choice.

I think people should decide themself today and I would play the TS tomorrow around this time (~16:00 CET)

any comments on capital+worker micro since it was pretty vague from me?

 

[astre]

I'll test more tonight.

My initial management was nearly only worker buisness and was something like that:
finish gold, prechop a tile, prechop another, go on hillforest, chop (into LH, not before), mine, finish chopped tiles, go chop a last tile.
When construction is in, revolt to slavery, whip when possible.
build queu was wariors* /LH/GLH

but surely can be improved.

 

[astre]

could do it turn end of T53 (T54 for most people) with AH, 3 warrior and a worker in the process.

I swaped to slaver and AH at T0
upgrade gold, premine close forest hill, go to cows ASAP, then premine other hill (South one).
with other worker finish premine first mine.
finish 1 hill only for LH. build road if turns are needed to delay.
when both hills are mined, chop 3 forest with both workers then 2 pop whip the GLH when possible.

went warrior until size 4 then worker, then piece of warior/boat then LH, then GLH.
maybe we can gain one turn with best timming as i had to stop my worker for a turn or so to wait the good timing.
It is important that LH finish only the last turn of sailing to get excess chop into GLH.

did not whip before GLH as this town have great hammer power

 

[Folket]

I see that I'm the minority here. If getting AH first forces us to chop 3forests instead of 1 it is not worth it.

 

[Folket]

Missing out on AH I got Glight T52 (2 mined hills+1chop, no whips, AH after masonry).

This seems to be the way to go.

 

[UnforcedError]

I see that I'm the minority here. If getting AH first forces us to chop 3forests instead of 1 it is not worth it.

Lurker's comment (just personal experience not meant to influence anybody)

GLH at the cost of three forests is actually pretty good unless you're isolated and can't settle enough coastal cities to make it work (which doesn't seem to be the case here). I tend to chop at least 3 tiles into it on archipelago. Lots of the AI start with seafood on this map and will have Sailing early because of that.

 

[nocho]

I'd personally still go for AH first if it's just a turn difference. Will cede to a majority though.

 

[Folket]

Lurker's comment (just personal experience not meant to influence anybody)

GLH at the cost of three forests is actually pretty good unless you're isolated and can't settle enough coastal cities to make it work (which doesn't seem to be the case here). I tend to chop at least 3 tiles into it on archipelago. Lots of the AI start with seafood on this map and will have Sailing early because of that.

I also think it is worth three chops. But the build are 3 chops with AH or 1 chop with AH later. So getting AH earlier costs 2 chops which I do not think is worth it.

 

[nocho]

I think with the amount of wood around, 2 more chops are completely inconsequential.

 

[astre]

we are talking about 5 chop instead of 3 (do not forget the 2 mined hill) and do not forget i get a second worker in the process with the 5 chop version.

however, my version should be doable T55 with only 2 forest killed (+2mined, + 2 pop)

still, no real preference AH or not, as long as GLH is done before T55.

 

[UnforcedError]

I also think it is worth three chops. But the build are 3 chops with AH or 1 chop with AH later. So getting AH earlier costs 2 chops which I do not think is worth it.

Lurker's comment

Unless you lose the wonder.

 

[astre]

We are playing bioshock, in bioshock, there is always the possibility to explore an alternative space time continuum...

... aka reload

cam, can we do it also here?

 

[vranasm]

well I didn't want to make this game too complicated . wanted just to know which tech path we take now, expecting we make here and there some not so optimal decision about tiles worked, forests chopped etc.

 

[Cam_H]

Happy to go for Fishing now. There's some case to go Fishing > An Hus > Sailing > Masonry due to the 3 from coast tiles via Fishing re. citizen #3 to get An Hus quicker! Nonetheless, I bow to the trials from others on the roster that point to Fishing > Sailing > Masonry > An Hus as the fastest pathway.

I agree with nocho's point that we chop as much as we need to get the Wonder done.

Generally I sense that we're committing to getting this Wonder done, and I'm happy to do whatever it takes.

On reloads ...

 

[vranasm]

Okay I had some time to play in the morning...

I will aproach with the fishin+sailing strategy and retain the worker micro to get out some settler and crossing fingers for some good city spot 2

veery nice we have source of copper nearby

Spoiler :

and I think we find the city 2 location spot

Spoiler :

Fishing is in

Spoiler :

sailing next

we lose our warrior :-( was very unfortunate

Spoiler :

and find some gems

Spoiler :

we finish sailing

Spoiler :

i finish the TS, I didn't do anything with worker, but my plan would be to chop the tree into LH

we have 56 hammers in settler, are size 4, we could switch into slavery now, whip next turn (or delay the whip 2 turns) into LH

we have 1 spawnbuster on stone south, he is in sentry mode.
1 warrior in north west was moved to see a bit more of the jungle (revealed bananas)

we have 1 new warrior in capital and I think it would be very wise to use him for the city 2 spot spawnbusting.

 

[lymond]

I'd just go ahead and 2 pop the LH first thing. We have enough food here to grow back. We can use a coastal tile sometimes with corn and 3F cow to grow back faster and get a little more commerce on the way to Masonry. OR hold whip on LH until turn before Masonry is in and get more OF into GLH while still grow to size 5 or 6. Usually I do the latter.

If we whip now just put whatever OF into another warrior.

That's some suckass land you coughed up there Cam :LOL:

yea wine/copper is ok, but for going GLH there is like no coastal spots. Where's the sushi!

 

[vranasm]

well if we follow the settling spot I propose it's actually coastal, but we have to run the south coast around to get the TR's....

another thing taht popped in mind is that it would be actually beneficial if we go mysticism now and then masonry.

that way we get some discount for masonry and we can build monument as one of the first builds in city 2 for the copper (and we want to go Oracle anyway)...

I wouldn't abandon the gold mine tile at all... so work it even on size 2... then the food surplus would look completely different

 

[lymond]

Oh right, we are not actually Gilgamesh. Myst is a good call.

I say we only 2pop at size 5 or higher, so we can always keep the gold working.

By the way, if we connect the cities by road the "coastal" trade routes would be active. Not sure which is better/faster. Problem with that land down south is that if a barb city spawns it will block coastal trade routes. The route north is looking a bit uncertain at present as well. I would like to get a scout WB out when we can.