The Essence of the Left

[Snorrius]

I have found this great assessment of the Left ideology by the Russian blogger Kirill Kaminets. Here is the assessment itself:

"A leftist wants the society to be ruled by those who Know the Truth. Not only they have to know the truth but they also should be righteous. I've already wrote that left singularity, the highest degree of left idea purified from everything unnecessary, incarnated in Zhang Xianzhong who was the leader of peasant rebellion in China in 17th century. First he robbed the rich and gave their riches to poor. Then he was killing (and sometimes eating) rich people as a punishment for exploiting the poor. Then he eradicated state employees and other "intelligentsia" -- because they did not support his ideas enough, and, of course, for the lack of righterousness.

And what those ideas were? Honest leftism spelled to the last letter. «Left singularity». Zhang Xianzhong's ideology was written on the «Stele of seven kills», he formulated it himself:

The heaven gives to men countless goods.
Men have not anything to thank the heaven.
Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.

Change «Heaven» to «Nature» or «Society» (or whatever is popular in the leftist trend now) and you get a universal manifesto for every left movement in history. After «intelligentsia» Xianzhong moved to poor people whom he cut arms, legs and ears for insufficient gratefullness. A little later he started to flay his own comrades. Xianzhong dispeopled the province Sichuan. From three millions of people only several tens of thousand have left alive. Everyone else he exterminated with artificial hunger, torture and mass murders.

If you think leftists need sound ideologies, mass society or industrialization to reach heights of Pol Pot, you are mistaken. If you think that the goal of left movements is something other than 殺 殺 殺 殺 殺 殺 殺 you are also mistaken. In the left system of morality the price of human is based on his «piety». The more one hates himself and others of his kind - the better. To harm your own social class to please the masses is good. To betray you nation by supporting other -- even better. As far as I see it, currently the highest degree of leftism is environmentalism: when a leftist tzadik reaches the level of self-condemnation when he begins to hate the very biological essense of his kind and values plants and animals more than humans."

So, let's discuss. I think he have covered most points of Leftism. What do you think? Is there anything to add?

Add-ons

A very short introduction to Neoreactionary thought
Recap: brutality is the means, goal is «Swedish paradise»
Nazism is a Leftist ideology

 

[Tahuti]

The rightist wants mankind to transcend itself, the centrist wants mankind to be mankind and the leftist wants mankind to transcend nothing.

 

[Evie]

"Kill killl kill" (etc) anyone who disagree with them is not a left wing or right wing notion; it is and has always been the province of fanatics of all stripes and allegiance toward those who disagree with them.

Trying to pass it off as the notion of one political allegiance or the other is the work of unprincipled hackjobs who ar ethemselves fanatics, and far more likely to adopt a "kill kill kill" mentality than those whom they insult. Because total hatred and total disrespect for the people who disagree with you is usually one of the very first step toward a kill kill kill mentality.

There is nothing sane nor valuable abut your quote, and nothing in this thread worthy of a red diamond.

 

[Senethro]

I think this will hurt Obama politically.

 

[Gucumatz]

I think this conversation is a non-starter.

By definition, a "leftist" wants to improve the lives of people. Pushing for improvement does not mean "hate". How one goes about improving lives of people, is another thing to be analyzed altogether.

A "rightist" wants to maintain the status quo, or keep change from occurring.

A "centrist" believes society constantly needs a mix of the two, for stability and that the status quo is sometimes better.

And yes my analysis is simplistic, but at least its not as immoral or as nonsensical as the first two posts in this "RD"

 

[warpus]

I have found this great assessment of the Left ideology by the Russian blogger Kirill Kaminets. Here is the assessment itself:

Which leftist ideology?

There are many out there. Which one are you talking about?

What do you think? Is there anything to add?

Before being able to add anything, you first need something to add it to.

 

[JollyRoger]

So, let's discuss. I think he have covered most points of Leftism. What do you think? Is there anything to add?

There already appears to be a pitchfork, so that does not need to be added, merely used to move some of the straw from the OP to out of the thread. The OP seems to push an extremist view of what leftism is.

 

[Borachio]

Anarcho-primitivists don't think like this. It's very doubtful whether they think at all.

 

[Snorrius]

Which leftist ideology? There are many out there. Which one are you talking about?

Pretty much everything including Social-Nationalism and Fascism (which from reactionary point of view are typical left movements).

Take, for example, environmentalism with its obsession with climate change. If they were given real power they would seriously pursue stopping using oil and natural gas which would quickly crash world economy and kill billions.

 

[gay_Aleks]

So would ending all life on the planet.

Your point?

 

[luiz]

Snorrius, how do you reconcile your anti-revolutionary and anti-leftist views with your fondness for the Soviet Union?

Also, I think what you're describing here is not exactly "leftist" mentality, but rather "constructivist" revolutionary mentality. It can have a leftist flavor or a rightist flavor. It all boils down to the notion that some enlightened group knows what's better for society; they know what the next step of human progress will (or should) be, and will do all in their power to get there. Then comes the radical notion that everything must be taken to its logical conclusion, no matter how sinister the consequences: "monarchists may flock around any surviving member of the Imperial family and the result would be a prolongation of struggle that would claim countless lives, therefore we are justified in murdering the Czar's infant sons and daughters". Of course, through such leaps of logic one can justify anything, and that's exactly what monsters like the Bolsheviks did.

 

[Evie]

Pretty much everything including Social-Nationalism and Fascism (which from reactionary point of view are typical left movements).

So...I take it your definition of "leftist ideology" is "any ideology that involves killing".

Fascism and leftism have about as much to do with each other as your thread starter and intelligent discussion.

 

[JollyRoger]

Pretty much everything including Social-Nationalism and Fascism (which from reactionary point of view are typical left movements).

Take, for example, environmentalism with its obsession with climate change. If they were given real power they would seriously pursue stopping using oil and natural gas which would quickly crash world economy and kill billions.

Just because you go all out in creating an extreme definition of leftism does not mean the typical environmentalist would be as extreme in prohibiting the use of oil and natural gas. After all, don't most environmentalists use oil and natural gas to some extent instead of attempting to fully abstain?

 

[Tahuti]

Fascism and leftism have about as much to do with each other as your thread starter and intelligent discussion.

As much as I oppose Fascism, I personally think Fascists are right when they describe themselves as Centrist. They certainly have Leftist elements though.

 

[Borachio]

If they didn't use fossil fuels, how would they get themselves to environmental conferences?

Your conference is the natural habitat of the true environmentalist.

 

[gay_Aleks]

I thought environmentalists were looking for a viable alternative to fossil fuels.

But I never noticed when they turned into a political movement. I thought it was limited to scientists and charities with slogans like "think of the pandas".

 

[Evie]

As much as I oppose Fascism, I personally think Fascists are right when they describe themselves as Centrist. They certainly have Leftist elements though.

Perhaps (though they had strong right-wing elements too), but "conquer everyone around us for the glory of the motherland" and "suppress all opposition. With guns." aren't on the list of leftist elements by any reasonable definition, unless (like the original poster) you attempt to redefine leftism to "everything bad, ever". Which would invalidate pretty much everything such a person would say.

(Not to say they,re necessarily right-wing either. They're mostly a "fanatics of any stripes" kind of mentality, especially the later; with the former being a fanatical take on what's mostly a right-wing mentality, though it's been occasionally used by some leftist groups)

 

[Snorrius]

Snorrius, how do you reconcile your anti-revolutionary and anti-leftist views with your fondness for the Soviet Union?

Why do you think I am fond of the Soviet Union at the first place? I just find a lot of critique to be ridiculous just as Soviet newspapers which were writing in 80's how Americans are "lynching the Negroes". Especially this critique is ridiculous when it comes from people who are actually pushing their countries to destination where Soviet Union once was. USSR of 60s-70s was very similar to what modern Europe and USA are striving to. It had:

1) Heavily equalized society with main housing, education, medicine necessities and average income guaranteed almost for everyone, with little difference between an average man and higher-ups. Difference between Soviet "elites" and average Soviet citizen was miniscule comparing to difference between average modern Russian and oligarch.

2) Polite correctness

3) Multiculturalist policies

4) Severe degradation of culture and elites

But I am not particularly fond of Soviet Union. It was very leftist state. If I had to claim "fondness" of some period of Russian history, I would say I am fond of Imperial Russia.

Also, I think what you're describing here is not exactly "leftist" mentality, but rather "constructivist" revolutionary mentality. It can have a leftist flavor or a rightist flavor.

The problem with all Leftist ideologies is that they are based on egalitarianism. And the idea of egalitarianism leads to necessity of violence because people are unequal and to maintain equality among unequals one needs to apply force - more equality needs more force. The problem is that all Leftist movement are based on views which have little in common with reality which they still try to push. Left is egalitarian and it means it is violent - not necessarily physically but ideologically. The force is not necessary is applied all at once. Look at the modern West. It is becoming progressively more Left but slow enough to increase its pressing by little. Still, it is already quite totalitarian.

 

[JollyRoger]

Again, you are assuming those with ideal ends will take extreme means to get there rather than merely approaching the ideal through more moderate means. That is where you need to stop waiving around the pitchfork and put it to the more productive use of scooping up and tossing out some straw.

 

[Evie]

The problem with all Leftist ideologies is that they are based on egalitarianism. And the idea of egalitarianism leads to necessity of violence because people are unequal and to maintain equality among unequals one needs to apply force

To maintain inequality one also needs force. Capitalist ownership would be entirely unworkable without state-sponsored violence and state-sponsored threats of violence (or without non-state violence; as in the people with the money hiring mercenaries and thugs to protect their property) ; that is to say criminal law punishing those who take the property of others without permission.

That, too, is force, and without it maintaining pre-existing inequalities is altogether impossible. People will simply take anything you can't bolt down and you will be helpless to stop them.