The Euro crisis - 400 M1A1 Abrams ordered by Greece

[Loppan Torkel]

According to information of the “Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine, the U.S. authorities approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks to the Greek Army, which will include options between simple refurbishment – worth tens of millions dollars for all the tanks- and upgrading to a higher level of operational capability, with a higher corresponding cost. The relative Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) is expected soon.

Also according to exclusive information of the 'Hellenic Defence & Technology' magazine, a Price and Availability letter was sent to U.S. authorities regarding 20 AAV7A1 and a low cost upgrade program for them. This is the first step to cover an operational requirement for 75-100 vehicles.

Additional exclusive details on these requirements as well as for Bradley IFVs, in a forthcoming issue of the 'Hellenic Defence & Technology' magazine.

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/the-u-s-approved-to-grant-400-m1a1-abrams-to-greece/

Is it as crazy as it sounds?
Do they need a foreign government to rule them?

 

[Quackers]

I don't think the Greek government will ever implement austerity measures.

 

[Leoreth]

Answer to these questions: yes and yes.

But you should never forget they need to have an army ready for the inevitable Macedonian invasion.

 

[classical_hero]

How can they afford them?

 

[Leoreth]

Foreign money?

 

[aelf]

I don't think the Greek government will ever implement austerity measures.

Seeing this in the context of the OP, neither does the UK, then, since the Tory government just bought those new carriers.

 

[ArneHD]

This HAS to be a joke.

 

[Godwynn]

They're gonna need those tanks when the Germans hear about this.

 

[Quackers]

Seeing this in the context of the OP, neither does the UK, then, since the Tory government just bought those new carriers.

It is the CON-DEM government

 

[Leoreth]

They're gonna need those tanks when the Germans hear about this.

Exactly, whine into our ears about solidarity and then buy American tanks!

 

[Godwynn]

Exactly, whine into our ears about solidarity and then buy American tanks!

Better than buying Italian tanks, it's hard for three men to push 54 tons of steel into Macedonia.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

WTH ?
The Greek army operates Leopard 2's, why they go and buy Abrams' ?
In a time when they are tight on money and there's no credible threat around at that.

I think someone's been bribed by american arms manufacturers.


Edit: It looks like they are replacing their old Pattons and the deal was probably agreed upon a while ago.

 

[imperialman]

Seeing this in the context of the OP, neither does the UK, then, since the Tory government just bought those new carriers.

Now now, they're a capability our navy and government requires and our military budget deficit itself is now balanced after the roughly 10% cut to funding they got due to austerity. It wasn't a case of what we had already being good enough unlike the current Greek armour being sufficient for their needs. But this has been discussed to death in my thread. Besides, there was no alternative to purchasing the carriers, contracts are binding things.

 

[imperialman]

It is the CON-DEM government

Labour ordered them and most parties agree on their need.

 

[aelf]

Now now, they're a capability our navy and government requires and our military budget deficit itself is now balanced after the roughly 10% cut to funding they got due to austerity. It wasn't a case of what we had already being good enough unlike the current Greek armour being sufficient for their needs. But this has been discussed to death in my thread.

Could you elaborate on the Greek situation and why this purchase is completely unnecessary?

Besides, there was no alternative to purchasing the carriers, contracts are binding things.

I have my doubts about this argument.

Labour ordered them and most parties agree on their need.

Didn't the Tory government decide to go ahead with it?

 

[warpus]

I wonder what German taxpayers think of this

 

[imperialman]

Could you elaborate on the Greek situation and why this purchase is completely unnecessary?

They have sufficient armour in place already via their Leo 2's

I have my doubts about this argument.

Luckily for the British navy, every major military and political think tank and committee disagree, a country with foreign policy that applies globally needs the ability to act globally, a carrier gives that ability and more. A blue water navy is relevant to the UK's political clout in my opinion but this is OT and if you wish to continue please take this to my thread on the carriers.

Didn't the Tory government decide to go ahead with it?

No choice, BAE had cleverly decided to make the contract a guarantee of work making building them cheaper than cancelling them. We would have had to build a huge number of smaller ships to compensate for the work needed to fill the contract.

 

[aelf]

They have sufficient armour in place already via their Leo 2's

How do you know it's sufficient?

Luckily for the British navy, every major military and political think tank and committee disagree, a country with foreign policy that applies globally needs the ability to act globally, a carrier gives that ability and more. A blue water navy is relevant to the UK's political clout in my opinion but this is OT and if you wish to continue please take this to my thread on the carriers.

Eh, I'm not arguing about the utility of the carriers here. I don't know why you decided to do so. But I might take it to the other thread some time, seeing that you relied on citations from the Henry Jackson Society to support your position, which is one think tank with a very particular set of interests.

No choice, BAE had cleverly decided to make the contract a guarantee of work making building them cheaper than cancelling them. We would have had to build a huge number of smaller ships to compensate for the work needed to fill the contract.

But clearly you and the Tory government think it's the right decision in any case. But enough about that. I want to know what exactly makes the Greek situation with regards to their military different. It's easy to say that it's not okay when somebody else does it, but I want to see some concrete reasons.

 

[Winner]

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/the-u-s-approved-to-grant-400-m1a1-abrams-to-greece/

Is it as crazy as it sounds?
Do they need a foreign government to rule them?

German money well spent... If at least they bought German Leopard 2s (which are better tanks anyway ), but this is just mind boggling.

EDIT: At least the Greek trade unions are having fun:

Greece hit by new 24-hour general strike over austerity

A 24-hour general strike is under way in Greece in protest at the nation's austerity measures.

Flights and ferry services have been cancelled, schools, government offices and tourist sites closed, and hospitals are working with reduced staff.

At least 16,000 people have joined protests organised by the main unions in central Athens.

The European Commission is discussing ways of propping up banks in Europe to protect them from the Greek crisis.

Meanwhile, in its latest report on the European economy, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned that economic growth is in danger of petering out and a global recession in the coming year cannot be ruled out.

Global financial markets have been in turmoil over fears that Greece could default on its debt, most of which is held by European banks. In other developments:

On Tuesday, Moody's ratings agency slashed Italy's credit rating from Aa2 to A2, blaming an overall loss in confidence in eurozone governments.
Despite the Italian downgrade, European markets rose sharply as trading opened on Wednesday.
Belgium and France are working on plans to rescue the Franco-Belgian Dexia bank, which is exposed to Greek debt.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said again that Greece must remain a member of the eurozone.
​

The general strike is the first since the Greek government announced an emergency property tax and the suspension of 30,000 public sector staff last month.
'Lives ruined'

The government says the stringent austerity measures cannot be avoided if the country is to reduce its deficit of 8.5%, a key requirement in securing a second instalment of bailout cash pledged by the EU.

But the measures are hugely unpopular and have led to a wave of strikes and protests.

Tens of thousands of people have stayed away from work across Greece, including air traffic controllers, tax workers, teachers, hospital staff, public transport workers, police and other emergency workers.

Thousands of people have gathered in central Athens to march towards Syntagma Square and stage a demonstration outside parliament. Protests were also planned for other cities.

Police have fired tear gas at small groups of protesters who were throwing stones.

Critics of the austerity drive say it is deepening the recession, stunting Greece's growth - the economy will shrink 5.5% this year - and stopping Greece from being able to reduce its government debt itself.

Protesters also say they are unfairly bearing the burden of the country's debt.

"This is an opportunity for the Greek people, whether in the public or in the private sector, to fight this, to deny this logic that we must bow our heads all the time to save the country and show patriotism," said 37-year-old protester Dimitris Kizilis.

"We believe, as workers, that patriotism is to respond with actions."

Stathis Anestis, a spokesman for Greece's main union GSEE, said the new measures were "just extending the unfair and barbaric policies which suck dry workers' rights and revenues and push the economy deeper into recession and debt".

"With this strike, the government, the EU and the IMF will be forced to reconsider these disastrous policies," he told Reuters.

Greek civil servant and trade unionist Tiana Andreou told the BBC that people's lives had been ruined.

"We have decided that we're going to stop this."

Some militant civil servants are promising to sabotage the moves. On Tuesday, protesters again blocked the entrance to several government departments including the finance and transport ministries.

The government says it has enough cash to pay pensions, salaries and bondholders until mid-November, having previously said it needed more money by mid-October to avoid a default.

Inspectors from the IMF, European Central Bank and European Commission - known collectively as the troika - have been in Greece this week to assess its financial situation.

But eurozone finance ministers have delayed a decision on handing over the money, after Greece said it would not meet this year's deficit-cutting plan.

The government admitted that the budget deficit will stand at 8.5% this year, rather than the 7.5% target.

On Wednesday, the IMF's European chief Antonio Borges said there was no rush for the second bailout, and that he was "confident negotiations will come to a positive conclusion".

So, what are they protesting for? Bankruptcy followed by non-payment of pensions and salaries?

 

[imperialman]

How do you know it's sufficient?

Eh, I'm not arguing about the utility of the carriers here. I don't know why you decided to do so. But I might take it to the other thread some time, seeing that you relied on citations from the Henry Jackson Society to support your position, which is one think tank with a very particular set of interests.

Fair point, if you decide to discuss further I can try and dig out other opinions.

But clearly you and the Tory government think it's the right decision in any case. But enough about that. I want to know what exactly makes the Greek situation with regards to their military different. It's easy to say that it's not okay when somebody else does it, but I want to see some concrete reasons.

Actually, they did attempt to cancel at least one of the new carriers. Well, it's different because our carriers were not fit for purpose and they are being replaced by ones that are, it was a necessary purchase (if you believe that Britain's world role is appropriate). The situation with Greece is that their Leopard 2 tanks are still fit for purpose and the addition of 400 Abrams tanks is uncessary.

Simply put, the British need new carriers as the previous carriers are obsolete where as the Greeks do not need new tanks as their previous tanks are easily capable of the roles the Greek government require and are still very up to date. Make sense?