The European Project: the future of the EU.

[uppi]

Well, of course. But violating someone's privacy is a separate crime, and is not a defence against a crime exposed through that privacy violation.

Actually it might be. In some countries there are laws that provide exactly that by ruling that such evidence is not admissible in court. I am pretty sure in Germany the recording would be inadmissible (mostly the audio recording, the pictures might be ok). I don't know about Austria, though.

Der Spiegel.. yes. But in an Austrian newsmedium ? Why take the risk that Strache gets in time a warning ?

Of course, but that is sort of the point: Why have those national TV broadcasters if they cannot be relied on providing checks on the government?

I think the collapse can be real or convenient.
After all, when new elections take place soon, the other parties are likely to benefit and a new period of the term is set.

Sure, Kurz wouldn't have called for new elections if he didn't think he could profit from them.

 

[Cheetah]

 

[Hrothbern]

After the many articles on the EU "crumbling" under the populist right (lol), the Austrian FPO scandal, that good friend of Salvini, Mr Strache, giving the excuse that when things go not that well it is explained..
Politico found a new looming threat for the EU: the rising red tide of the EU socialists.
lol

But the U.K.'s failure to quit the EU as expected, allowing British Labour candidates to run in the European Parliament election, has boosted the number of seats that the Socialist group is likely to win
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-eus-rising-red-tide/

A miracle would be needed for that red tide to happen on the back of a EU Social Democratic party becoming the biggest party AND the SD choosing to polarise the EU Parliament by seeking a coalition with the greens and the liberals.
The best the SD can achieve is to become the biggest party and is from there the most entitled party to deliver the successor of Juncker.


Well... and IF Labour would have campaigned with "Remain" on the banner for the EU elections.... IF... in that case the EU Social Democrats would have had a borderline chance to win (the current polls: from 168 EPP-147 SD to 168 EPP-161 SD).
What realy would be needed is the EPP kicking out the Orban party from the EPP (good for 14 seats in the EU) because of Orban's blatant corruption, strangling of press freedom, gerrymandering, etc, etc.
But yeah, Manfred Weber of the EPP only talks about that, because he cannot miss the votes of Orban for his own chances to follow up Juncker (and Orban is leveraging that ofc).

Fact is however that if Orban would have been kicked out and Labour would have campaigned pro-Remain the polling as of now would be: 168 EPP and 175 Social Democrats.

 

[Cheetah]

@Hrothbern
@uppi

There is more! There is more!

http://dotheyknowitseurope.eu/

More context:

• https://old.reddit.com/r/Austria/comments/bqsia2/do_they_know_its_europe_böhmermann_countdown/
• https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/bqt8qa/jan_böhmermann_the_german_comedian_who_might_have/

 

[Hrothbern]

@Hrothbern
@uppi

There is more! There is more!

http://dotheyknowitseurope.eu/

More context:

• https://old.reddit.com/r/Austria/comments/bqsia2/do_they_know_its_europe_böhmermann_countdown/
• https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/bqt8qa/jan_böhmermann_the_german_comedian_who_might_have/

I hope, beside the hope for a massive corruption fall out on all the traditional Kremlin Putin puppets (Orban, Marine Le Pen, Farrage, Geert Wilders, Strache, Salvini, etc, etc, etc, etc), that we get something with Orban involved in those "2 days, 3 hours, 22 minutes" !

Something that would "force" the EPP, would "force" Manfred Weber, to kick out Orban immediately out of the EPP.

Angela Merkel did already an "assist" for that.

 

[AdrienIer]

Apparently there's a possibility for the left half of the European parliament to have a majority (from far left to the centrists), and therefore to be able to pass progressive policies if they want to, even if the EPP disagrees. Let's hope it happens, because if so it'll be a razor thin majority. A Tsipras-to-Macron majority seems unstable, but at least it would keep the conservatives out of the loop when the decisions are made.

 

[Cheetah]

Apparently there's a possibility for the left half of the European parliament to have a majority (from far left to the centrists), and therefore to be able to pass progressive policies if they want to, even if the EPP disagrees. Let's hope it happens, because if so it'll be a razor thin majority. A Tsipras-to-Macron majority seems unstable, but at least it would keep the conservatives out of the loop when the decisions are made.

Now that would be awesome!

 

[innonimatu]

Macron, left?

 

[Kyriakos]

Apparently there's a possibility for the left half of the European parliament to have a majority (from far left to the centrists), and therefore to be able to pass progressive policies if they want to, even if the EPP disagrees. Let's hope it happens, because if so it'll be a razor thin majority. A Tsipras-to-Macron majority seems unstable, but at least it would keep the conservatives out of the loop when the decisions are made.

Neither Tsipras nor Macron are left, and Tsipras is an impostor.
Besides, his party is set to lose by more than 7 points (which means he won't elect any number of euro mps worth anyone's time), and hopefully will lose far worse in the actual general election and then die.
Not that i am happy with the prospect of Weber being the parliament leader, but it's not like there is any non-utter-garbage option.

 

[Hrothbern]

Neither Tsipras nor Macron are left, and Tsipras is an impostor.
Besides, his party is set to lose by more than 7 points (which means he won't elect any number of euro mps worth anyone's time), and hopefully will lose far worse in the actual general election and then die.
Not that i am happy with the prospect of Weber being the parliament leader, but it's not like there is any non-utter-garbage option.

Tsipras has 6 seats in the EU Parliament and is polled now for 7 seats (of the total 21 Greece seats)
The moderate right (New Democracy, EPP) had 5 seats and is polled for now for 9 seats.
It is the far right Golden Dawn that lost 1 seat (2014 to polls now) and also 1 seat loss for the communist party.

 

[Kyriakos]

Tsipras has 6 seats in the EU Parliament and is polled now for 7 seats (of the total 21 Greece seats)
The moderate right (New Democracy, EPP) had 5 seats and is polled for now for 9 seats.
It is the far right Golden Dawn that lost 1 seat (2014 to polls now) and also 1 seat loss for the communist party.

7 mps for Syriza doesn't seem logical (albeit i don't recall what their previous euro election percentage was). What percentage is the study you go by supposing for this election? Cause literally all polls show Syriza losing by at least 7 points.
Anyway, any mp they get is an mp too many.
Other parties poll afaik at around 5-7% (Pasok-new name, GD and KKE -communist party).
I do recall that in the previous euro election Syriza had 3,8% (or similar) more than ND.

 

[Hrothbern]

7 mps for Syriza doesn't seem logical (albeit i don't recall what their previous euro election percentage was). What percentage is the study you go by supposing for this election? Cause literally all polls show Syriza losing by at least 7 points.
Anyway, any mp they get is an mp too many.
Other parties poll afaik at around 5-7% (Pasok-new name, GD and KKE -communist party).
I do recall that in the previous euro election Syriza had 3,8% (or similar) more than ND.

I use the poll of polls of Politico that basically uses for all EU countries all polls made (within standards) and draws a line through them (explained in the small print).
Regrettably they changed since two weeks the lay out. In the old lay out you could mine in any of the polls used incl all details (I hope, guess, that adding back this feature is still under construction)

Here the link:
https://www.politico.eu/2019-european-elections/greece/

 

[Kyriakos]

I use the poll of polls of Politico that basically uses for all EU countries all polls made (within standards) and draws a line through them (explained in the small print).
Regrettably they changed since two weeks the lay out. In the old lay out you could mine in any of the polls used incl all details (I hope, guess, that adding back this feature is still under construction)

Here the link:
https://www.politico.eu/2019-european-elections/greece/

Seems a bit unfair though that their 10% difference (factors those who answer 'undecided') leads to just a 2 mp difference between ND and Tsipriza
I do hope it will get to so massive a difference (10%), though it is more realistic to expect 7-8%. 10% will be awesome, though, cause the general election here can at worst be in October (Tripas just wants to cling on to power till the final day the law allows him to )

 

[Hrothbern]

Seems a bit unfair though that their 10% difference (factors those who answer 'undecided') leads to just a 2 mp difference between ND and Tsipriza
I do hope it will get to so massive a difference (10%), though it is more realistic to expect 7-8%. 10% will be awesome, though, cause the general election here can at worst be in October (Tripas just wants to cling on to power till the final day the law allows him to )

Rounding (many parties for not so many seats in total) will certainly have taken effect on both actual 2014 as polled 2019.

From distant Holland I look TBH first of all to the total number of seats of the Left and Leftish incl both Green parties. I will have my special treat of a small jenever chalice of very "old jenever" to toast on the EU Social Democrats becoming the biggest party and beat the EPP of Weber.

 

[Kyriakos]

Rounding (many parties for not so many seats in total) will certainly have taken effect on both actual 2014 as polled 2019.

From distant Holland I look TBH first of all to the total number of seats of the Left and Leftish incl both Green parties. I will have my special treat of a small jenever chalice of very "old jenever" to toast on the EU Social Democrats becoming the biggest party and beat the EPP of Weber.

Is the socialist candidate for the euro parliament leader any good?

 

[Hrothbern]

Is the socialist candidate for the euro parliament leader any good?

Both his grandfathers were coal miners, he grew up most of his youth in the Province Limburg, that coal area, and close to the German and Belgian border. A poor backward area in his youth.
He was a bright student, studied French literature and European Law in NL and then again French literature in Nancy (FR) and did his miltary conscription service and succeeded to become in those 18 months Prisomer of War interrogator for Russian POWs (He learned Russian). I applied BTW for exactly the same specialisation when I had to do military service, because I wanted to learn Russian for free (despite my bad language skills) and there was a lot of Russian scientific literature on natural sciences not available in English. But I did not succeed .
He speaks BTW 6 languages.

After all that he went to foreign affairs for the Diplomat training and was deployed in Moscow. Max van der Stoel (you should know him...he helped Greece where he could in 1967-1974 to bring down the Junta regime). picked him up as young talent to have him involved in improving European Minority Rights (is also one of the reasons that he has not much "mercy" for Orban etc).

He is a sold Dutch Social Democrat from the generation (born in 1961) of before the third way. He has been Dutch MP, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of European Affairs.
He is to my personal taste too much a federalist (imo that needs to wait on further converging at societal level for at least 2-3 generations before you can really formalise a further integration of something like a EU of the Regions).

He is a typical Dutch bridge builder, consensus builder, between factions in a party but again.. he has not much mercy for corruption, breaking laws on human rights, etc.

 

[Kyriakos]

Both his grandfathers were coal miners, he grew up most of his youth in the Province Limburg, that coal area, and close to the German and Belgian border. A poor backward area in his youth.
He was a bright student, studied French literature and European Law in NL and then again French literature in Nancy (FR) and did his miltary conscription service and succeeded to become in those 18 months Prisomer of War interrogator for Russian POWs (He learned Russian). I applied BTW for exactly the same specialisation when I had to do military service, because I wanted to learn Russian for free (despite my bad language skills) and there was a lot of Russian scientific literature on natural sciences not available in English. But I did not succeed .
He speaks BTW 6 languages.

He sounds better than Jeroen the clown anyway

 

[Hrothbern]

He sounds better than Jeroen the clown anyway

Those two are quite different indeed !

And... as young Greek... does Max van der Stoel rings a bell for you ?

 

[Kyriakos]

Those two are quite different indeed !

And... as young Greek... does Max van der Stoel rings a bell for you ?

Why would he? I was born in 1979 I barely recall people talking about Chernobyl.

 

[Hrothbern]

Why would he? I was born in 1979 I barely recall people talking about Chernobyl.

Max van der Stoel (also a Dutch Social Democrat, but from the school of the 60ies-70ies, was the ultimate diplomat that did a lot to force (outside the public newsmedia) the EU to be against the Junta despite the NATO club supporting the Junta because of the Cold War.
When he was in Greece and the Turkish revolt took place in Cyprus he flew immediately to New York, the UN, to defend the interests of Greece (of the population ofc not the Junta).

He was also the first Western politician that openly supported Charta 77 in Czechoslovakia
And considering your young age here a small article on that:

On Wednesday Frans Timmermans, the Dutch deputy chairman of the European Commission, and the Czech foreign minister, Lubomír Zaorálek, were among the guests at the unveiling of a monument commemorating Max van der Stoel’s visit at a park already named after him in Prague 6.
Van der Stoel was Dutch foreign minister in 1977 and became the first Western politician to publicly back the Charter 77 movement.
On March 1, less than two months after the publication of what was to become one of the significant protest documents in the Eastern Bloc, he held a secret meeting in Prague with the philosopher Jan Patočka, one of Charter’s first spokespeople.
Historian Petr Blažek is the editor of a new book exploring the secret police’s files on Patočka. He describes the meeting at Prague’s Intercontinental Hotel.
“A short meeting took place at a private room. Patočka mainly spoke. He explained the situation and aims of Charter 77 and said that it was a legal movement, a civic initiative trying to defend human rights and to persuade the Czechoslovak state to adhere to its commitments under the Helsinki Accords.”
Van der Stoel was due to hold talks with Czechoslovak Communist leader Gustav Husák, but he cancelled after learning what had happened.
The Charter signatories were at that time the subject of a crackdown by the Communist authorities and the Dutch support gave them a real shot in the arm, says Petr Blažek.
“It was covered in the Western media and was also reported on by Western radio stations broadcasting into Czechoslovakia. Naturally it represented major support for the Chartists. It meant that somebody was taking them seriously in the West. Patočka himself regarded it as confirmation that their efforts were being taken into account. They regarded it as major support.”
Petr Blažek says the meeting signified the start of a kind of parallel foreign policy, under which the Czech opposition maintained their own ties with the West.
https://www.radio.cz/en/section/cur...ech-dissidents-in-1977-commemorated-in-prague