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The European Union
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Lillefix
I'm serious. You can.
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For it to move to the left, people have to vote left in national and EU elections. So it's up to the people I guess.
Snerk
Smeghead
Sure but I don't see the people doing that any time soon.
What "actions during refugee issues" do you have in mind?
And what past sanctions are you referring to?
What actions might those be, Yeekim? Maybe Austria-Hungary-Slovakia-Baltics little grouping to force anti-immigration? And sort of fascist or fascist-lite parties there.
Back when the Eu was consisting of countries with somewhat progressive stance (and Germany
), there were routine sanctions in case of anti-human rights violations. Usually when those were deemed to be anti-EU spirit, but still not outright to be banned in individual states. Eg if you wanted to build a wall against refugees, or spoke in favour of Hitler, or would use different procedure to allow immigrants than the eu bloc accepted.
Nowdays: Openly racist governments, open hatred of immigrants from the ME, satellite-formation to push over one hegemony.
I mean, if you do those, you are sort of drifting towards other regions. Much like Estonia with the Putinov-Trumpentrop agreement
Back when the Eu was consisting of countries with somewhat progressive stance (and Germany
), there were routine sanctions in case of anti-human rights violations. Usually when those were deemed to be anti-EU spirit, but still not outright to be banned in individual states. Eg if you wanted to build a wall against refugees, or spoke in favour of Hitler, or would use different procedure to allow immigrants than the eu bloc accepted.Nowdays: Openly racist governments, open hatred of immigrants from the ME, satellite-formation to push over one hegemony.
I mean, if you do those, you are sort of drifting towards other regions. Much like Estonia with the Putinov-Trumpentrop agreement
It could happen if the left won next year's election in Germany + France. Then those two + Renzi (if he doesn't resign after the referendum) could try to shift the EU to the left.
It doesn't look likely though.
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I was asking for clarification about what particular actions and which particular sanctions you had in mind. You've, unsurprisingly, provided neither.What actions might those be, Yeekim? Maybe Austria-Hungary-Slovakia-Baltics little grouping to force anti-immigration? And sort of fascist or fascist-lite parties there.
Back when the Eu was consisting of countries with somewhat progressive stance (and Germany
Nowdays: Openly racist governments, open hatred of immigrants from the ME, satellite-formation to push over one hegemony.
I mean, if you do those, you are sort of drifting towards other regions. Much like Estonia with the Putinov-Trumpentrop agreement
As for walls against refugees...you mean like the ones around Ceuta and Melilla?
You are now welcome to remind me what sanctions EU put into effect against Spain.
Defiant till the end of the autonomous baltic states, i see 
Recall the reaction to Austria electing Hitler-admirer Heider, and compare more recently with half the EU either having near fascist, fascist (Hungary and Slovakia ) parties, or a legacy of viewing ww2 positively for the axis (Croatia, Finland, and who knows what else in the region).
Recall the reaction to Austria electing Hitler-admirer Heider, and compare more recently with half the EU either having near fascist, fascist (Hungary and Slovakia
) parties, or a legacy of viewing ww2 positively for the axis (Croatia, Finland, and who knows what else in the region).
warpus
In pork I trust
Without the EU Europe would be a lot more chaotic than it is now. It doesn't always work out in your favour, but where would you be without it?
Akka
Moody old mage.
Without the EU, we would have a bunch of states having to compete against each other and unable to struggle against globalization, by the fault of being too small.
The EU might be steered in the wrong way, but it alone has the strength to enforce regulations without simply being bypassed. People who wants to break up the EU because they think it's too neoliberalist are short-sighted (and more often than not purposedly blind).
The second blame put on EU is the lack of democratic accountability. But considering everything in the EU comes from elected official, and seeing how the blame is put on such or such (democratic) country, it seems to me it's much more a case of "democracy is good, but only when people vote like I would like them to".
The EU is the single best political construction ever made in history. It's not perfect, but it's absolutely necessary if we want to have a tool strong enough to protect us from the universal race to the bottom.
The EU might be steered in the wrong way, but it alone has the strength to enforce regulations without simply being bypassed. People who wants to break up the EU because they think it's too neoliberalist are short-sighted (and more often than not purposedly blind).
The second blame put on EU is the lack of democratic accountability. But considering everything in the EU comes from elected official, and seeing how the blame is put on such or such (democratic) country, it seems to me it's much more a case of "democracy is good, but only when people vote like I would like them to".
The EU is the single best political construction ever made in history. It's not perfect, but it's absolutely necessary if we want to have a tool strong enough to protect us from the universal race to the bottom.
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Got to give credit where it is due - you finally did manage to find the one and only case in history that can, with lot of stretching - be described as "sanctions" (so much of "routine practice"Recall the reaction to Austria electing Hitler-admirer Heider, and compare more recently with half the EU either having near fascist, fascist (Hungary and Slovakia
).You will, doubtless, now also recall that these "sanctions" amounted to absolutely nothing else than exclusion of Austrian representatives from group pictures and were quietly dropped after half a year.
As for the rest of your rambling - what is "legacy of viewing ww2 positively for the axis" even supposed to mean?
Akka
Moody old mage.
I meant "they want to break the EU because they feel it's too neoliberalist". I guess it was pretty unclear (though the context should have been obvious), I'll fix it
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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- 15,295
Von Papen couldn't have put it better...
What has the EU done but "globalize"? Push for more and more free trade deals.
Without the EU and with a more protectionist/isolationist US, there won't be any globalization.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Excellent jab. Von Papen didn't have computers and selectorate theory however. Your best shot is a non-automated military and Great Depression level desperation.
I meant "they want to break the EU because they feel it's too neoliberalist". I guess it was pretty unclear (though the context should have been obvious), I'll fix it
That does make a lot more sense.
Von Papen wouldn't have a clue about 'populism'. Nice try.
Right. So we have people complaining about how protectionist the EU is and people complaining about how globalist the EU is. Make up your mind, I say; you can't have both.
That's usually a pretty good indicator that most people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to matters like this.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Three things :
1) Actually, the EU has enforced rights and regulations. As Agent327 pointed, half the complaints about the EU are about the "rules from Brussel". That's a pretty big opposite from "globalizing".
2) The good thing about the EU is that you actually can fight free trade deal from a centralized point, with quite a bit more pressure and exposition. In fact, it's actually the European Parliament which slowed down ratification from such trade deals, up to the point the TTIP has been more or less abandoned - if it had been up to local government, it would have been signed, and much sooner.
3) Let me remind you again : everything that happens in the EU, happens because elected official are doing it. Now imagine these officials inside a structure having much LESS power to resist external pressure, and try to claim they would magically be able to fight globalization more. Yay, I can see that from here.
That's a completely stupid statement. Like, absolutely, completely, utterly stupid. Like if companies would suddendly stop looking for better deal (i.e. : more exploitable people) just because, somehow, the EU didn't exist and said companies had much less regulations (or much less enforceable ones). That's just nonsensical.
Your blind hatred for a false image of the EU is really making you live in an alternative world sometimes.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Actually that diversity of opinion reflects the reality that the European Union is globalist on some things
(e.g. intellectual property rights) and protectionist on other things (e.g. agricultural products).
Got to give credit where it is due - you finally did manage to find the one and only case in history that can, with lot of stretching - be described as "sanctions" (so much of "routine practice"
You will, doubtless, now also recall that these "sanctions" amounted to absolutely nothing else than exclusion of Austrian representatives from group pictures and were quietly dropped after half a year.
As for the rest of your rambling - what is "legacy of viewing ww2 positively for the axis" even supposed to mean?
Can't we just be friends?
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